FFL - Requirements

[Werewolf]

Went to the ATF web site to see what the requirements are to get an FFL just because I was bored and didn't have anything else to do. Couldn't find any info on the subject there (it's gotta be in there somewhere - I just couldn't find it).

BUT I've always wondered just what the requirements are to get an FFL. Can't imagine they could be any stricter than what's on the yellow sheet we fill out everytime we buy a firearm.

So what are the requirements to get a FFL and how much does the FED Govt gouge you for money wise to issue you one?

 

[Andrew Rothman]

In brief:

For obtaining your Federal Fire arms License (FFL License), you must be at least 21 years of age. The Federal Firearms License application (FFL application) is issued for a period of three years, and it costs $200 for those three years (which averages out to about $67 per year). Other Federal Firearms License Requirements include that you fill out the FFL application truthfully, that you have not violated certain laws, and that you provide suitable facilities for operating as an FFL dealer.

The BATF, who determines the Federal Firearm License requirements, requires that certain forms (including the Form 7 application), be completed correctly and submitted with the fee, in order to have the FFL license application.

...

Please note that the Class 3 FFL, which is required for dealing in certain weapons, such as automatic weapons, is a different license than the standard one.

- http://www.federalfirearmslicense.com/ - a site selling a "kit" to help you apply

Also see ATF FAQ at http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

 

[Hkmp5sd]

At the present time, ATF does not allow "kitchen table" dealers (ie, dealing out of your residence). If you wish to get into selling firearms, in addition to the FFL, you have to obtain a business location (with the normal expenses-rent, electric, water, telephone, insurance, etc.). The location will have to be properly zoned and you will have to provide the secure storage for any firearms you stock. You will also need any state and local business licenses, if required, and a tax number. You will need to maintain tax records along with the federal firearm records and any state records.

To apply, you need to go HERE and request the appropriate forms. They are:

1. ATF Form 7 (Firearms)
2. ATF Form 5300.37 (Certification of Compliance with State and Local Law)
3. ATF Form 5300.36 (Notification of Intent to Apply for a Federal Firearms License)

You must also be over 21 and send a $200 License Fee, photographs and fingerprints.

Don't waste your money on buying a "FFL KIT". All they send you is a copy of the ATF forms and a list of companies/wholesalers. ATF will send you the forms free and a copy of Shotgun News has enough distributers to get you started.

 

[Snake Eyes]

At the present time, ATF does not allow "kitchen table" dealers (ie, dealing out of your residence).

That's not true.

The ATF doesn't have the authority to decide that your place of residence is not a suitable location for business as a firearms dealer. That is up to your local government.

I live in the "core" of Phoenix, and the City of Phoenix has no zoning regulations against me running an internet firearm business out of my home. If I choose to get a City of Phoenix business license for that purpose, the BATF has no ability to deny a FFL on the grounds that my place of business is a residence.

I went almost completely through the process before I realized that the paperwork hassles created by being an FFL holder were not worth the benefits.

I found that as an FFL holder, you have to get a yellow sheet and run a NICS check on EVERYONE you transfer a gun to. No more "private party sales" or trades to friends---who's to say that was your personal gun and not a business gun??? Oh...it was "off your books"?? Big No-No!!


Peter

 

[Hkmp5sd]

That's not true.

If it's not true, why is there a "Tiahrt Amendment" in congress that is driving the antis bonkers?

Specifically, the so-called "Tiahrt Amendment" would:

Reinstate "Kitchen Table" Dealers Who Had Once Been Linked to Widespread Gun Trafficking. Federal laws and regulations in the early 1990s instituted real reform in the licensing requirements for retail firearms dealers, making it much tougher for individuals to obtain licenses and ensuring that those who were licensed were in fact bona fide businesses. The resulting dramatic decline in the number of dealers from more than 250,000 to less than 100,000 in a few years coincided with a parallel sharp decline in gun crime. The Tiahrt Amendment reverses that progress by stripping ATF of its discretion to deny a license renewal to individuals who have used their licenses for personal acquisition of guns and may sell guns out of their home. These "kitchen table" dealers were often linked to crime gun trafficking. The Amendment also effectively repeals federal law defining what it means to be "engaged in the business" to be a firearms dealer, which until now has been a requirement to obtain a firearms license.
http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,565623,00.html

Washington, DC - A National Rifle Association (NRA)-backed amendment inserted by Representative Todd Tiahrt (R-KS) at the last minute into fiscal year 2004 appropriations legislation for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments would dramatically increase the number of "kitchen-table" gun dealers across America, the Violence Policy Center (VPC) charged today. The surprise amendment, adopted last week by the House Appropriations Committee by a vote of 31 to 30, would require the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to issue Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs) to "kitchen-table" gun dealers, applicants who do not actually run stocking gun stores, but instead operate out of homes and offices.
http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,565487,00.html

 

[Snake Eyes]

If it's not true, why is there a "Tiahrt Amendment" in congress that is driving the antis bonkers?

Um, do you really want a discourse about why unnecessary bills get introduced in congress? I would think that most people with firearm related interests would have a pretty fair understanding of the concepts that:

A) Lots of bills get introduced that are "spun" by some lobby
B) Lots of bills get introduced to address phantom issues
C) Most lawmakers don't have a clue what the real problem is or how to address it.

From the quote in Hkmp5sd's post:

...making it much tougher for individuals to obtain licenses and ensuring that those who were licensed were in fact bona fide businesses...

"Tougher"--not impossible. "Bona Fide businesses"--a business licensed by the local authority.

I have personal experience obtaining a FFL with no place of business other than my home and no secure storage other than my gun safe and no formal business organization other than a "dba" license from the City of Phoenix. If your residence is zoned for business use, you too can obtain a FFL.

And here's a little secret: Pretty much every residence is zoned for business as long as the business doesn't create traffic or noise. For instance, an internet gun dealer has no retail clients to create parking problems or create traffic congestion--just the UPS truck once a day.

I can't speak for every city, but I read the City of Phoenix regs and they had no problem whatsoever issuing me a business license as an internet gun dealer from my home address.


Peter

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I have personal experience obtaining a FFL with no place of business other than my home

Me too. I had an 01-FFL for about 10 years out of my residence. Yes, you can presently get issued an FFL. And you will get checked on and if you do not sell enough firearms to satisfy ATF, you will lose your license. Most people selling from their house don't meet that quantity. THAT is what the Bill is all about. They are trying to get it back to where one gun every 4 or 5 years is enough.

 

[Standing Wolf]

...if you do not sell enough firearms to satisfy ATF, you will lose your license.

Well, yeah, but we're not a police state.