FFL Transfer Fee to Ship Out?

[toivo]

In my area, the Transfer Fee runs, $10.00 mandated by NY State Law for local transfers from one NY Resident to another

Another NY resident here, and as I understand it, the $10.00 mandated fee is the maximum an FFL is allowed to charge for a face-to-face transfer between two NY residents. They can charge less if they want, not that anyone does. A lot of FFLs I know simply refuse to do it for that price because it's not worth their time. In fact, I only know of one FFL who does charge the $10.

In most cases, the buyers will pony up anywhere from $25 to $45 to get the FFL's interest, and I've never heard of an FFL being sanctioned by NY State for overcharging on their transfers. IMO, the $10 transfer fee was just a lame attempt by former governor Cuomo to make his repulsive "background check for in-state private sales" a little less repulsive. It didn't work.

 

[hso]

they charged me a $20 transfer fee on top of $45 or so shipping

Sounds about right.

 

[Archie]

There is no federal database that allows an FFL to check if a firearm is/is not stolen.

That's odd. When did they quit? I have run checks through the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) to check if a firearm has been reported stolen.
No, the DCIC database is not clairvoyant. However, it's what exists to make a such a check.

Please inform me when it ceased operation.

 

[dogtown tom]

That's odd. When did they quit? I have run checks through the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) to check if a firearm has been reported stolen.
No, the DCIC database is not clairvoyant. However, it's what exists to make a such a check.

Please inform me when it ceased operation.

The NCIC continues to exist, but is clearly restricted to law enforcement official business only. It has NEVER been available to FFL's. If the FBI finds out a police officer is accessing NCIC for personal use, he will have his access revoked.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

I'm curious why one would request the services of a licensed dealer to ship a firearm?

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm curious why one would request the services of a licensed dealer to ship a firearm?

It's usually less expensive as they have shipping options not available to non-FFL sellers

 

[ar15bang]

If the receiving FFL accepts from individuals then.....

https://www.shipmygun.com/go/

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

It's usually less expensive as they have shipping options not available to non-FFL sellers

I suppose it could be cheaper for handguns because of USPS prohibition for non-FFL shipping on those as well as the silly next day requirement on them for UPS, but if you're paying $65 in fees to have them process it, it seems like you're getting into the territory of making up for much of the next day requirement for UPS. For long guns its hard to understand why anyone would use an FFL to ship.

 

[9mmepiphany]

For long guns its hard to understand why anyone would use an FFL to ship.

Because the receiving FFL requires it?

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

Because the receiving FFL requires it?

In that case I'd ask my buyer to either pay the additional expense or choose a different recipient dealer. I can't land on a rational reason for a licensed dealer to refuse receipt of a weapon sent from an unlicensed party.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I can't land on a rational reason for a licensed dealer to refuse receipt of a weapon sent from an unlicensed party.

The first that comes to mind is if the buyer can't past his background check and the FFL is stuck with the firearm.

That is the reason that a FFL gave to me when I asked. He didn't want to get stuck with the firearm which he could neither legally transfer or return without jumping through additional hoops...besides paying postage

 

[Archie]

The NCIC continues to exist, but is clearly restricted to law enforcement official business only. It has NEVER been available to FFL's. If the FBI finds out a police officer is accessing NCIC for personal use, he will have his access revoked.

I see. So when the FFL does a check to find if a firearm is stolen, they check with the fortuneteller at the carnival?

 

[dogtown tom]

The first that comes to mind is if the buyer can't past his background check and the FFL is stuck with the firearm.

Which can happen with any firearm, doesn't matter if it was shipped from a licensee or nonlicensee.

That is the reason that a FFL gave to me when I asked. He didn't want to get stuck with the firearm which he could neither legally transfer or return without jumping through additional hoops...besides paying postage

His understanding of "legally transfer or return" is flawed.
If I receive a transfer firearm (from licensee or nonlicensee) and the buyer is denied on his background check, then someone pays for return shipping. If they don't, the firearm is eventually sold for accrued storage fees.

If the seller is an FFL, either he sends me a return shipping label or the denied buyer pays me to return the firearm.
If the seller is a nonlicensee, he either sends me a return label to his dealer or the denied buyer pays me to return the firearm to the sellers dealer.

It's no big deal. It's no big hassle.

 

[dogtown tom]

I see. So when the FFL does a check to find if a firearm is stolen, they check with the fortuneteller at the carnival?

Again, for the third time THERE IS NO FFL ACCESS TO THE FBI NCIC database of stolen firearms.

 

[JDeere]

All of these issues is why I have now gone to the consignment route with my local. I don't have to do a darn thing except agree on a sale price. The last time I shipped a rifle with my UPS account it was almost 50 bucks with insurance to an FFL who would accept from a non FFL. My local does all the work and deals with tire kickers and collecting money, Yes it cost me a little but I put it on my account and when I want something no tax is applied because it has already been paid on that money. ymmv...

 

[drobs]

I shipped a Glock 27 + ammo, mags, and a holster to a friend's dealer in California. Shipped it in 2 boxes. Gun in one box, ammo and accessories in another box. Told my friend it was a 15 year late, Wedding Present. I shipped it using UPS.

The CA dealer actually recommended that I ship it to him myself. I sent the dealer in CA a copy of my Drivers License for his book.

Lots of dealers don't like receiving guns from out of state from individuals. Reason being those individuals will frequently not include a copy of their drivers license with the gun. The dealer needs that info to enter the gun into their bound book. It's easier to make a shop policy that they only do FFL to FFL transfers. Then it is to chase down an individual for a copy of their drivers license.

I buy a lot of guns off of gunbroker. Private sellers will frequently make the following statement on their listings.
"Make sure your transfer dealer will receive a gun from an out of state private individual with a copy of their Drivers License."

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

I've bought and sold many over the years and I've never run into a dealer who wouldn't accept from an individual. I'm not saying they don't exist or making a statement on frequency. If I'm selling and someone requested I send from a dealer I would ask them to cover the cost. I'm not going to absorb the fees because someone else's choice of dealer. All of these reasons are silly in my opinion. The recipient dealer charges a fee to conduct the receipt and transfer of the firearm. They should consider the work invested in communicating with the seller, buyer and statistical possibility of needing to return in their transfer fee. I'd consider the potential receipt of a firearm to someone who fails the background check as a potential profit center. If the firearm is non-returnable, I just accepted a consignment item that I will sell at a cost to the recipient.

I shipped a Glock 27 + ammo, mags, and a holster to a friend's dealer in California. Shipped it in 2 boxes. Gun in one box, ammo and accessories in another box. Told my friend it was a 15 year late, Wedding Present. I shipped it using UPS.

The CA dealer actually recommended that I ship it to him myself. I sent the dealer in CA a copy of my Drivers License for his book.

Lots of dealers don't like receiving guns from out of state from individuals. Reason being those individuals will frequently not include a copy of their drivers license with the gun. The dealer needs that info to enter the gun into their bound book. It's easier to make a shop policy that they only do FFL to FFL transfers. Then it is to chase down an individual for a copy of their drivers license.

I buy a lot of guns off of gunbroker. Private sellers will frequently make the following statement on their listings.
"Make sure your transfer dealer will receive a gun from an out of state private individual with a copy of their Drivers License."

 

[George Dickel]

I've bought and sold many over the years and I've never run into a dealer who wouldn't accept from an individual. I'm not saying they don't exist or making a statement on frequency. If I'm selling and someone requested I send from a dealer I would ask them to cover the cost. I'm not going to absorb the fees because someone else's choice of dealer. All of these reasons are silly in my opinion. The recipient dealer charges a fee to conduct the receipt and transfer of the firearm. They should consider the work invested in communicating with the seller, buyer and statistical possibility of needing to return in their transfer fee. I'd consider the potential receipt of a firearm to someone who fails the background check as a potential profit center. If the firearm is non-returnable, I just accepted a consignment item that I will sell at a cost to the recipient.

His business, his rules. I've had a couple FFLs that wouldn't accept a firearm directly from a private individual because some private sellers they dealt with didn't include a copy of their identification, didn't provide the name and pertinent information on the buyer, didn't provide contact information for the seller. My FFL processes a lot of guns in a month and for him to receive one with no information on the seller and buyer creates a lot of problems for a $20 fee isn't worth the hassle to sort out the mess.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

His business, his rules. I've had a couple FFLs that wouldn't accept a firearm directly from a private individual because some private sellers they dealt with didn't include a copy of their identification, didn't provide the name and pertinent information on the buyer, didn't provide contact information for the seller. My FFL processes a lot of guns in a month and for him to receive one with no information on the seller and buyer creates a lot of problems for a $20 fee isn't worth the hassle to sort out the mess.

I don't think I've stated anything contrary to that fact that someone can elect to do what they want in their own business. I've stated my opinion that I see things differently, and if I was required to deal with a dealer that required additional work and expense on my part, I would pass it along to the one who made the choice of receiving dealer.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I don't think I've stated anything contrary to that fact that someone can elect to do what they want in their own business.

Well...that is a bit different than your original statement:

I can't land on a rational reason for a licensed dealer to refuse receipt of a weapon sent from an unlicensed party.

So what you're now admitting is that there are rational reasons: "...someone can elect to do what they want in their own business". That you "see things differently" doesn't make their reasoning irrational. Their business model choices are as valid as yours.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

Well...that is a bit different than your original statement:

So what you're now admitting is that there are rational reasons: "...someone can elect to do what they want in their own business". That you "see things differently" doesn't make their reasoning irrational. Their business model choices are as valid as yours.

I said I can't land on one, it doesn't mean one doesn't exist. As the conversation continues I can see some stated reasons, which I hadn't landed on my own. I'm not sure I understand your desire to characterize my very simple statement of opinion into a binary statement of moral authority. I haven't made a single statement regarding what people should be allowed to do, what is right or wrong, etc. I've simple stated an opinion on what I would do or what I would expect with a dealer or buyer I was doing business with. I'll state it again, people can DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WTH THEIR OWN BUSINESS. Can't we just agree to disagree?

 

[SterlingBullet]

Yes, legally you transfered it to the shipping FFL and then they shipped it to the buyers FFL. But what I think the real issue is was the $45 fee the FFL charged for "shipping" padded with profit for the FFL? If the $45 was truly the shipping cost than the FFL is legit collecting a separate transfer fee. But if the true shipping cost was actually less than $45 then he is double dipping in my opinion.

The FFL is well within their right to recover their labor and packaging material costs and a profit margin to prepare a package for shipment. The actual shipping charge assessed by the courier is separate. The FFL could even tack on a percentage fee of the actual shipping charges. Did you know that eBay and PayPal do that? They charge a percentage of the total sale which includes the shipping amount.

The bottom line, no one is in business to provide free services.

 

[dogtown tom]

I've bought and sold many over the years and I've never run into a dealer who wouldn't accept from an individual......

I have at least one customer a week that brings me a gun to ship because the receiving dealer does not accept from nonlicensees.
Whats always fun is those are the same dealers that wont email me a copy of their FFL unless I send my copy first.
I don't play the "show me yours, then I'll show you mine" game.

If the dealer the buyer chose has requirements that add time, trouble or expense for the seller......that's the buyers responsibility.

Last week I had a dealer demand that I only ship FedEx. That ain't happening.

 

[KY DAN]

I pay 20 dollars a gun, my dealer is my best friend and he would do any number of guns for 20 dollars..... but the guy has kids and they like to play sports and drive cars so I insist on 20 a gun. The most I have gotten at one time was 5 pistols and that was years ago.

If I can't pay a transfer then I just don't buy.