FFL03 or not?

[WestKentucky]

I like old guns, and I buy a few each year that are junk and get them going again. I’m also soon to be moving and changing careers to where I will be frequently driving in one state but living in another. Pawn shops and gun shops litter the area I will be driving in, so I’m thinking that after I move I may apply for an FFL03 C&R license to be able to buy while out of my state of residence (handguns specifically). Online sales would be nice as well, but doubtful I would buy much online.

Big questions here…
Can I use an FFL03 to buy guns face to face outside my state of residence?

What documentation is required for purchasing using FFL03?

Do KY or TN have any odd laws that may preclude me from doing what I am considering?

 

[jar]

One point that must be made. Regardless of legality I have found that many places simply will not accept my C&R. I am about to renew it yet again but understand that it is simply not universally accepted.

 

[Dale Alan]

One point that must be made. Regardless of legality I have found that many places simply will not accept my C&R. I am about to renew it yet again but understand that it is simply not universally accepted.

Very good point , around here shop owners do not deal with C & R .

 

[giggitygiggity]

Very good point , around here shop owners do not deal with C & R .

I’ve found that when buying guns from individuals on forums and many companies (AIM, J&G Sales, KY Gun Co, etc) online, that they are more than happy to accept an FFL03 on eligible items. Plus, as an FFL03, I can accept shipments from individuals whereas many gun shops require sellers to send through an FFL01 which requires the seller to pay their FFL01 to handle the outgoing transfer; as such, it is often appealing to sellers to sidestep the annoyance and costs of using an FFL01 on their end for an outgoing transfer. Sometimes, you just have to explain to individuals what the license is and why the item they are selling is a C&R.

The way I see it, an FFL03 is $30 for three years. Many shops charge over $30 for a single transfer plus you have to ask the shop to send their FFL to the buyer and you have to drive to the shop, fill out a 4473, etc. The worst case is that you get an FFL03 and nobody accepts it and you’re out $30.

 

[reddog81]

I had one a few years aback and used it to buy a handful of items. I let it lapse because it seemed like all milsurp was drying up and didn't use it for the last year. None of the shops I visited in person would accept a C&R license and most clerks have no idea what it even is. More than a few times the clerk thought I was making it up. All the online sellers that deal in large amounts of guns would accept it.

 

[dogtown tom]

Can I use an FFL03 to buy guns face to face outside my state of residence?

Yes, but only guns that are C&R and as long as the sale is legal in both states.

What documentation is required for purchasing using FFL03?

You give the seller a copy of your 03FFL. You record sellers name and address in your bound book.

 

[dogtown tom]

I’ve found that when buying guns from individuals on forums and many companies (AIM, J&G Sales, KY Gun Co, etc) online, that they are more than happy to accept an FFL03 on eligible items. Plus, as an FFL03, I can accept shipments from individuals whereas many gi shops require sellers to send through an FFL01 which requires the seller to pay their FFL01 to handle the outgoing transfer; as such, it is often appealing to sellers to sidestep the annoyance and costs of using an FFL01 on their end for an outgoing transfer. Sometimes, you just have to explain to individuals what the license is and why the item they are selling is a C&R.

The way I see it, an FFL03 is $30 for three years. Many shops charge over $30 for a single transfer plus you have to ask the shop to send their FFL to the buyer and you have to drive to the shop, fill out a 4473, etc. The worst case is that you get an FFL03 and nobody accepts it and you’re out $30.

Worth mentioning is that only licensed dealers and manufacturers can mail handguns or receive handguns by mail. An 03FFL using USPS to ship a handgun commits a felony.

Dealing with 03FFL's is a pain. The ATF EZCheck website does not verify 03's, meaning the dealer has to call ATF to check the validity of the license......and unlike FBI NICS not available after 5pm Eastern time.

 

[tark]

I've had an O3 license for about 30 years now. My biggest hurdle has been dealers who either don't know what it is, or just won't accept it. And then there was the dealer who insisted that a gun had to be on the "list" or it wasn't a C&R. No, the list is a list of exceptions to the 50 year rule. If it is more than 50 years old it is a C&R. This holds true for machine guns as well, although, of course, all NFA rules still apply.

I love my 03! It makes things so much simpler and easier. In Illinois, there is a three day wait on handgun purchases. Not for me. I do a lot of business with Simpson's Collector guns in Galesburg, Illinois. When I see a pistol I like I give them the money, they give me the gun and a receipt and I walk out the door that day. No 4473, no NICS check. They have a signed copy of my license on file and that's that! I once stopped in at Cabela's in Sidney Nebraska and spotted a pristine 1891 Argentine Mauser. They recognized and accepted the license, I plunked down the cash and walked out with the gun. Sidney, Neb. is 800 miles away from Illinois. I did the same thing at a gun store outside of Elko, Nevada.

Yes, but only guns that are C&R and as long as the sale is legal in both states.

Quite true. Case in point. I can forget trying to use my license in California. All firearms transactions there must go through a type 01 dealer.

 

[jar]

New Jersey dealers have also told be that the State does not recognize C&R as well. I have not been able to find any case law on that but that is what dealers in NJ have told me.

 

[jag22]

Some dealers don't know or understand the C&R, big surprise! Yep, I've heard about the ones that think it must be on the list. Some aren't smart enough or too lazy to figure out if one is over 50 years old. I've bugged Gunbroker a few times about making a box on each listing about whether or not the dealer will accept a C&R. No luck so far. I do understand and accept it is their business and they are under no obligation to accept it. If I contact a dealer on GB and ask if they accept it and they say no then I tell them sorry I don't buy from those that don't. I'm sure they don't care but it makes me feel a little better.

 

[GRIZ22]

New Jersey dealers have also told be that the State does not recognize C&R as well. I have not been able to find any case law on that but that is what dealers in NJ have told me.

This is true.

 

[Long Haired Stranger]

I agree with the folks saying for $30 it only has to save you one or two transfer fees in three years to pay for itself. When I run into the people who don't recognize my 03FFL I don't get all bent out of shape, I just explain myself and if they don't get it I move on.
I've had one since 2007 and it has done two things for me, saved me hundreds if not thousand of dollars in transfer fees and cost me hundreds if not thousands of dollars buying curio and relics I probably shouldn't bought in the first place. It's a double edged sword, cuts both ways.

 

[WestKentucky]

Worth mentioning is that only licensed dealers and manufacturers can mail handguns or receive handguns by mail. An 03FFL using USPS to ship a handgun commits a felony

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

Per the ATF site linked above, it seems that USPS is specifically called out for being a no-go. Would the same hold true for other carriers, UPS for example? I know some carriers flat refuse to handle firearm shipments, but the way I read this it seems like other common carriers would be acceptable.

 

[dogtown tom]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

Per the ATF site linked above, it seems that USPS is specifically called out for being a no-go. Would the same hold true for other carriers, UPS for example? I know some carriers flat refuse to handle firearm shipments, but the way I read this it seems like other common carriers would be acceptable.

Both UPS and FedEx accept handgun and long gun shipments to and from 03FFL's:
UPS requires Next Day for handguns https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-cent...nts/firearms.page?srch_pos=3&srch_phr=handgun
FedEx requires Overnight for handguns: https://www.fedex.com/en-us/service-guide/terms/express-ground-samedaycity.html