Fights are becoming more and more common around my home. What to do?

[Airman193SOS]

I'll try to be polite about this, but it might be tough without insulting someone. Nevertheless, I'll try.

My house is on a major walkway between the local high school and the low-income housing in my town. When I first moved here, it was nice. No problems of any sort.

In the past year, things have changed, It's hard to put my finger on why that is, but the tenor of the kids' behavior has grown increasingly delinquent. My wife's car has been intruded upon twice, resulting in the theft of a laptop and an iPod. I've tried, with limited success, to explain to her the new rules of the street and why she needs to lock her car doors, which she never had to do before. I had a bicycle stolen right off my porch, a brazen intrusion of my living space.

Following the football games, the kids are always carrying on while they are walking home. Kids will be kids, and all that. But the tone of the conversations, even while peaceful, is a bit sinister, like it's a powder keg waiting for someone to light it off. Invariably a few times a year it does happen, and there is a fight right outside the house. I should know better, but I go outside and observe while I call the cops, hoping that my presence alone will break it up. Naturally, I'm carrying my handgun, but I can't help but think that even though I'm on my property by going outside I'm getting involved somehow and that will bring me nothing but trouble. But I can't stand by while my neighbors can potentially be assaulted, so I do it to ensure their safety at the risk of mine.

Today there was a big fight, 40+ kids by my estimation. They scattered to the four winds after the police responded (admirably quickly, in my opinion). The cop "escorted" the kids the rest of the way home, preventing further violence.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I suppose I could ask the police to post a car at the corner, but even if that isn't rebuffed how long could it last before they decide that it isn't worth the deterrence factor? I wouldn't mind starting a neighborhood watch program, but that would potentially open us up to mass assaults.

I like this neighborhood, I like the people in it, and we don't want this stuff to continue. I have a 5-year-old to think about. Imagine if he got caught up in that when he gets older. No, there simply has to be a way to effect change. Does anybody have any suggestions?

 

[Deanimator]

Keep calling the police as often as you need to.

It's not their job to protect individuals, but it IS their job to maintain public order. Give them all of the encouragement they need to do that.

 

[ingram]

Explain everything you did here to the PD, and rally as many neighbors as you can to do the same. While this obviously isn't going to solve the problem of teenage delinquincy, it can help with the problem of it occuring right on your doorstep.

 

[buck00]

I should know better, but I go outside and observe while I call the cops, hoping that my presence alone will break it up.

There was a time when kids responded to the authority of an adult. Today some kids (not all) not only don't respect adults (whether in the community, neighbors, teachers, etc) they actually challenge them and/or intentionally insult them to demonstrate a sense of power.

If you don't have a natural authority over them (some people do) don't try to force it. Don't be the guy that yells and complains if you know they won't listen. It will only make your house a future target of vandalism. Or the worst scenario you can get into is when a teenage kid challenges you to fight, and basically says "I'm going to kick your a--, but oh by the way, if you win the fight I'm going to sue you." I've actually seen this, so the kid figures he wins either way.

Naturally, I'm carrying my handgun, but I can't help but think that even though I'm on my property by going outside I'm getting involved somehow and that will bring me nothing but trouble.

I would seriously factor the pistol out of the equation. Even if a group of kids was coming at you, the last thing you want to do is draw and start shooting them.... claiming they were going to "beat you up." That would not only be foolish it would be murder. I wouldn't even get in that scenario in the first place. I know there are some die-hard keyboard-commandos here who are going to say "I'll shoot anyone who comes at me!" but its not worth going out in the street (or even on your lawn) creating antagonism with them, then having to resort to shooting some hothead teen who comes at you.

The solution here isn't the cops, its a cooperation between the school, cops, and community leaders... and local gov if possible. Also communicate with the other neighbors (if they care) about what is going on and what you are doing- don't go this alone. * A really good tactic would be video taping (from you window) the kids fighting and submitting it to both the police and school. I'm sure some of these kids feel they can do whatever they want- fight, vandalize, etc, and then simply run when the cops approach. If you can increase accountability and determine who is doing what, it will go much further than random 911 calls.

Good luck.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Big dogs, fence, video surveillance, Brady Bunch music at high volumes?

I wish I had better suggestions. But it's happening EVERYWHERE.

 

[moooose102]

two words, BIG DOG!

 

[par0thead151]

there is only one solution to your problem.
move.
the term white flight applies here very well. however i believe "white" can be more of a cultural term, in my eyes that phrase means, home owners who do not like change/confrontation/trouble flee an area that is becoming infested with trash/violence.
there is enough problems to deal with in life, why deal with trying to change the unchangeable?
if you manage to get a few of the teens prosecuted, they WILL know it was you(this is not hard to find out with open court records for who is pressing charges, etc) and they WILL get revenge against you, your house, your pets, wife, kids, etc

if you can, move out.

 

[Feud]

If the fights are such a problem, start a petition asking for a marked Police car to be stationed nearby before and after school. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[tmajors]

Neighborhood watch with open carry rifles. Just do normal yard work after the games when people are walking around. Only difference is that you have a rifle slung on your back or leaning on a tree/house/fense close by. The more neighbors that get in on it the better.

Only take a few days of a street lined with good people carrying good rifles and the punks will either leave or get right polite real quick.

But yea I dream.

 

[FuzzyBunny]

Move!

I have found that a small pack of firecrackers (8 to a pack laced together)
Makes a hell of a sound when tossed into a empty metal trash can.
Place the trash can on the other side of the house where the fights happen. Light the 8 pc string or just one and toss it out the window into the trash can. The trash can will really make it sound much louder!.

Of course you could make your own if that is legal in your area. You would not believe how fast children scatter when they hear one big bang and can't tell which direction it came from. Then the next day put a small white cross in the area with some day old flowers next to it. You get the idea.

Children have a wild imagination and the rumor will spread that 100s of shots were fired and at least 5 ppl were killed. Ask a few of the kids the next day if they saw the crazy guy that has been hanging in the area. Tell them to be careful because you heard he stabs young people in the neck and runs off and he might have a gun. Or just make up a good story that you like.

Sometimes the mind and imagination can do more than 5 police cars.

Sounds like a good time to start a PsyOps campaign.
Have fun with it!


Oh, put up some motion triggered lighting.

 

[jfountain2]

How about a lovely white picket fence and a very large mean dog.

I agree with others, you should leave the gun inside. I live in an area much like you discribe and the "kids" around here are probably packing more fire power than me. My wife and I make bets with each other each night about how close the next shooting will be. I have two midsized dogs (they are very loud though) and it does help keep people away.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

After the Fuzzy Bunny technique (above) get some yellow-CAUTION tape and post it around a stained "chalk outline" on the driveway.

(*sorry, that isn't very High Road of me)

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

It seems like you police are responding well, but I'd check and see what the police response policies are. In my old town if 3 neighbors complained about something an officer was dispatched immediately. So 4-5 of us called each other right after the police to make sure we got the immediate response. It also alerts the neighbors to the problem.

I felt pretty confident knowing that If I had to go outside I would not get in too much trouble, as there would be at least a Remington 700 in very experienced hands watching my back if I needed it.

 

[redneckdan]

a fire hose might work nicely

 

[searcher451]

Why not gather some like-minded neighbors and meet with the principal of the school and the superintendent of the district? Or bring the situation to the attention to the board of education and ask for a similar meeting. The last thing the school district wants is trouble with neighbors; that sort of thing often quickly finds its way into the pages of the local newspaper or on the 6 o'clock news ... publicity the schools do not want and will try hard to avoid. School officials can control some of this behavior and will do exactly that when properly motivated. A phone call that incorporates some carefully chosen words will provide the proper motivation.

 

[The Tourist]

Are you sure you're not over reacting?

I mean, my family lived inside the city limits for years. In all of that time I never heard of anyone vandalize any property. And my uncle had some very nice cars.

In fact, when he worked at home, I never heard of a secretary, or a driver or a consiglieri ever get mugged or a car vandalized.

Perhaps I'm naive, but I just don't remember a problem.

 

[Cave Dweller]

The video taping is a great idea. It helps identifying suspects during an investigation.

If the kids want to brawl, let them. Don't get involved in their gang fight. and observe them in secret, don't let them see you on the phone, or talking to the police. If you get identified as a "snitch" you and your family can be targeted by both sides.

The rules of the street are different now, just like locking your car doors is now a good idea, appearing indifferent on the surface is essential to urban survival. What you say need not match what you do.

Good luck

 

[verb0s]

I'd add some cameras around the property, to keep watch over your stuff, put them high up but in an obvious location so that the kids will see them but cannot break or damage them. Once something gets stolen, call the cops and give them the video as evidence. once some kid gets arrested for stealing, other kids will gethe message and not steal your stuff.
motion sensor lights also helps get the message across that stealing is not allowed. get the biggest and brightest floodlights you can.

and organize a neighborhood watch program. get as many parents involved as possible. work with the community and schools to get after-school programs set up and other youth things set up so kids can go and do something constructive instead of pranks, stealing, or fighting.

also, a pistol is not a good choice, perhaps pepper spray if fights get out of hand and start intruding on your property. its non lethal and stops aggressive behavior.

 

[ravencon]

I would move as soon as feasible. Your neighborhood situation isn't going to improve.

Until then I'd keep a low profile. Why would you want to take any kind of personal risk discouraging the fights? Let their Darwinian impulses do nature's good work.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Many of my neighbors have been vandalized, tagging mostly. We keep to ourselves. And haven't been tagged up once.

 

[CWL]

Unfortunately, "tagging" has noting to do with how nice & quiet you are, it has everything to do with location & opportunity.

 

[Fish Miner]

I would like to also throw the suggestion out there for a hose job. The only down side to hosing off a bunch of kids fighting is they may turn the aggression on to you after the fact....

 

[rrruuunnn]

i'd put surveillance cameras both covert and visible. cops like to see video and will probably know and identify the kids in the video. if you place the camera high you can see more. but if you place the camera low you can identify the person. i try to place a camera in narrow entrance or exit to identify people entering and leaving. also consider backlight problems. monitor the camera for any backlighting problem day or night. would be upseting to watch a video of a undistinquishable shadowy figure. maybe, a regular video camera behind a curtain will do. but i like real surveillance recorders because you can set it to continously record while you are away. i see surveillance cameras in nice neighborhoods now. and they tell me that someone broke into their house.

i would not go outside the house because you might end up defending youself with deadly force or having your gun stolen. since you're carrying, you option of fighting is gone because you could lose your gun to a bunch of thugs.

just out of curiosity, is it legal to throw pepper grenades or tear gas. i'd imagine tear gas would contaminate the area for days or maybe that's a good thing.

 

[primer]

Well, I would certainly be concerned with what goes on outside my home. But, remember that these are kids and kids have parents whose first instinct is to defend their children. Any confrontation with a kid has the possibility of esculating into a confrontation with their parents. Which can turn violent fast. I wouldn't take any physical action against a kid, because as we all know it can get turned around real fast. You go out there to stop a fight and next thing you know they ALL turn on you. Video taping would be the best course of action. Try to catch the ones that are doing the stealing around your home. As far as the fights go. Make them aware of your presence, but not in a threatening way unless they make a violent move towards you and if they do make sure you are on the right side of the property line. Sometimes simply video taping the fights as they occur can cut down on the regularity. Unless they want the publicity. Some are smart enough to know that once the cops get there the tape can be used to finger them. But lately it seems that alot of kids want to be video taped to show they are hard and fan their reputation.

 

[FuzzyBunny]

Just a sign. Laminated off your computer.


Video Recorded
For Your Protection
Midnight Secruity Service inc.

Hang a few of those up even if there is not a cam around.