TT
member
Only ‘friendlies’ at my place are the cats…and they got it coming…
Home Defense Shotgun Users-Do you fear hitting friendlies??
- Thread starter Curio Bill
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sorry, LESS LETHAL. good you guys clarified for me. i in no way meant that those rounds were to be used less cautiously under any condition, whether just at the range or in an emergency situation.
what i meant to point out is the fact that they are designed different and they are for a reason, which you guys have clearly stated.
i've no experience with blanks, but it seems surprising to me that theyd be lethal. another good reason to always know where you are shooting and whats beyond.
thanks guys, didnt mean to mislead anyone.
what i meant to point out is the fact that they are designed different and they are for a reason, which you guys have clearly stated.
i've no experience with blanks, but it seems surprising to me that theyd be lethal. another good reason to always know where you are shooting and whats beyond.
thanks guys, didnt mean to mislead anyone.
Stretchman
member
No, I don't fear hitting friendlies. Remember, there is no such thing as friendly fire. If the sight picture isn't good, you don't take the shot, unless you have no choice. Then you shoot to stop.
That's the good thing about shotties. You should normally get a shot. The biggest worry is that you will have to fire to stop the BG from hitting friendly targets. Otherwise, you should not have to shoot.
Shotties don't miss, and seldom fail. Tac lighting, good manouverability and good patterning are all important. If the shotgun is coming out, it is because it is very necessary. If it is necessary, then odds are you will need to fire it. Make your shot count. Rechamber. Is target still a threat? Scan your sector.
Disarm the subject and secure his weapon. Scan your sector. Check your six. Turn on lighting. Call emergency services.
In the meantime, your friendlies would normally be behind you, and you in a position to guard them. If it isn't that way, then you need to reevaluate your positioning. Maybe you need to move, or rearrange the furniture, or whatever. But you should be positioned between the threat and who you're protecting. Know your target and what is beyond it. Practice.
Trust your feelings. Use your instincts. Don't be afraid to feel some hate. It may save your life. I used to be a peace loving idealistic young man who wanted nothing more than to play guitar and love everyone man. Now, I'd pop an intruder for looking at me wrong. Criminals cross the street before they walk in front of my house. I live in a real high crime neighborhood. Luckily for me I haven't come home to find anything of any real value missing.
Alarms, dogs, early warning systems. All good. See it as a fight, a battle, prepare for it, fight to win, fight to live. Friendlies should be the last thing you worry about, and the next thing a bg has to worry about, should he make it past you.
That's the good thing about shotties. You should normally get a shot. The biggest worry is that you will have to fire to stop the BG from hitting friendly targets. Otherwise, you should not have to shoot.
Shotties don't miss, and seldom fail. Tac lighting, good manouverability and good patterning are all important. If the shotgun is coming out, it is because it is very necessary. If it is necessary, then odds are you will need to fire it. Make your shot count. Rechamber. Is target still a threat? Scan your sector.
Disarm the subject and secure his weapon. Scan your sector. Check your six. Turn on lighting. Call emergency services.
In the meantime, your friendlies would normally be behind you, and you in a position to guard them. If it isn't that way, then you need to reevaluate your positioning. Maybe you need to move, or rearrange the furniture, or whatever. But you should be positioned between the threat and who you're protecting. Know your target and what is beyond it. Practice.
Trust your feelings. Use your instincts. Don't be afraid to feel some hate. It may save your life. I used to be a peace loving idealistic young man who wanted nothing more than to play guitar and love everyone man. Now, I'd pop an intruder for looking at me wrong. Criminals cross the street before they walk in front of my house. I live in a real high crime neighborhood. Luckily for me I haven't come home to find anything of any real value missing.
Alarms, dogs, early warning systems. All good. See it as a fight, a battle, prepare for it, fight to win, fight to live. Friendlies should be the last thing you worry about, and the next thing a bg has to worry about, should he make it past you.
Mannlicher
Member
no, but then I use slugs, not shot when I bring out a shotgun, and most of the time I will drag out an AR rifle.
Soybomb,
He must have some of those new AIM 12 ga heat seeking shotgun rounds. Has a new IR seeker head on it that allows you to engage from any aspect (much better then the older model which was basically a revenge weapon and needed the heat from the target's tailpipe to get a lock) anyway you don't even need to see your target, place the shotgun in a firing position and do a 360 degree turn. When you get a steady tone in your Peltors or Sordins, press the trigger.
The only downsides are the rounds cost $138K apiece, you have to rig up a heat source on your target to practice with them, IFF transmitters for all of you family are an added cost and the modified hearing protectors are not cheap....But no, you don't miss...
Jeff
dralarms
Member
No I don't worry about it since the first rule around here is if the alarm goes off in the middle of the night I and the only one allowed to be moving in the house. My wife grabs her gun and ducks behind the bed, and everyone else (if I happen to have visitors) is to stay put until the all clear is given. If someone breaks into the house (home invasion) everyone is to hit the deck immediately no questions asked.
The only "innocent" that is toast in my house if I have to protect is my 150 gal slat water fish tank (I hope that never happens cause salt water s a pita to clean up). Guess they will have to forgive me.
The only "innocent" that is toast in my house if I have to protect is my 150 gal slat water fish tank (I hope that never happens cause salt water s a pita to clean up). Guess they will have to forgive me.
So, yesterday I shot a match. One stage was being in your car. You exit and engage several IDPA targets with your handgun. Then you retrieve a shotgun from the trunk - this being a 20 gauge pump and engage two steel. They were at about a 1.5 car lengths from the trunk. You got three rounds.
The first guy up - gets the shotgun and fires a clean miss at the steel - not even one pellet on the white. The pattern spread was roughly about 6 inches at that distance from the hits that you saw.
No, it was not me! - and with moderate stress and need for speed an experience shooter clean missed with a shottie. 
Of course, none of the rest of us would do that!
The first guy up - gets the shotgun and fires a clean miss at the steel - not even one pellet on the white. The pattern spread was roughly about 6 inches at that distance from the hits that you saw.
No, it was not me!
- and with moderate stress and need for speed an experience shooter clean missed with a shottie. Of course, none of the rest of us would do that!
Exmasonite
Member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
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- 561
i'd worry more about hitting a friendly with an errant pistol round that popped through 2-3 walls or even overpenetrated through a BG.
+1 for shotgun
+1 for shotgun
Rifleman 173
Member
There are several things that you can do to relieve your concerns.
#1. Practice. Practice. Practice. That is the right answer. Practice with birdshot, buckshot and slugs. Shoot hundreds and thousands of them until you KNOW, without a doubt, where your projectiles will be going from different distances. If you do enough shooting, your self confidence will grow.
#2. If you think that a shotgun is not good enough for accuracy, change firearms or get a different system for sighting your shotgun. One thing is that you CAN mount a red dot type sight on the shotgun. If you think that recoil is too violent for you or the sight system, change to a smaller, like a 20 gauge shotgun, or maybe even a rifle. Since we don't know all about your area or block where you live, you might not want to use a rifle for any number of reasons. So you might want to go to a semi-automatic carbine or even a lever-action saddle carbine. I have one in .44 magnum that I keep around my house BUT the only thing I have across from my house is a big hill to catch any bullets that I launch. The other three directions I have to use extreme caution when I shoot.
Just a couple of ideas that might help you out.
#1. Practice. Practice. Practice. That is the right answer. Practice with birdshot, buckshot and slugs. Shoot hundreds and thousands of them until you KNOW, without a doubt, where your projectiles will be going from different distances. If you do enough shooting, your self confidence will grow.
#2. If you think that a shotgun is not good enough for accuracy, change firearms or get a different system for sighting your shotgun. One thing is that you CAN mount a red dot type sight on the shotgun. If you think that recoil is too violent for you or the sight system, change to a smaller, like a 20 gauge shotgun, or maybe even a rifle. Since we don't know all about your area or block where you live, you might not want to use a rifle for any number of reasons. So you might want to go to a semi-automatic carbine or even a lever-action saddle carbine. I have one in .44 magnum that I keep around my house BUT the only thing I have across from my house is a big hill to catch any bullets that I launch. The other three directions I have to use extreme caution when I shoot.
Just a couple of ideas that might help you out.
Not clear if you are concerned about trying to pick off the BG while he is holding a family member...or are you worried about overpenetration behind your target. If the former...not sure what to recommend other than probably something other than a shotgun...if the latter...go with birdshot and you should be in good shape. Not a whole lotta performance difference between bird and buck at most home defense distances...but bird should have less penetration post-target. What doesn't die in a wall won't have much umph coming out the other side.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
The longest possible shot inside Caca McC will have a spread of 10" using my buck of choice.
The most likely opp, 5".
And a hostage situation here is unlikely. Everyone knows how to shoot and knows where the house weapons are.
But, let me reiterate that everyone needs to evaluate what their environment is and what is best for THAT environment.
The most likely opp, 5".
And a hostage situation here is unlikely. Everyone knows how to shoot and knows where the house weapons are.
But, let me reiterate that everyone needs to evaluate what their environment is and what is best for THAT environment.
czbegenner
Member
you can always get a trained k-9,like i also have.my kids do not live with me,but my mom does,so we have a drill at night i let my k-9 walk the house at least twice before we retire,if they get in it's not going to be pretty.
sm
member
My personal take on "friendlies" for any "serious situation" is simple.
Preventative Measures, Training and Practice, to know what works, coupled with effective communication geared to the lowest level of understanding and ability.
Not just Guns.
Fire is often more often the threat a home/family will have to deal with.
Knowing where the rest of the family is, having a plan to ensure everyone's safety is critical.
Is there a 4 year old in the house for instance? Yelling something out, never yelled before, trained, practiced in words this 4 y/o has no idea the meaning is not a good thing, be it a Gun or Fire Extinguisher situation.
What about the 80 y/o with a Walker? Again, yelling " watch six and hit the deck", is not going to be of much good.
One has to actually go out and shoot guns for tasks in a structure, be it home, business , apt, or condo - to know what they can do with what they have.
Just like actually letting a kid use a small kitchen fire extinguisher to let them know what to expect if they have to use one...
Box of baking soda to toss out a grease fire, let them do this, even if outside on the grill.
Folks laugh at my Youth H&R Single shot 20 ga with fixed modified choke.
Until they:
1. Miss with it with all them #3 pellets at 5 yards a sheet of typing paper.
2. See the pattern of where the pattern did go.
3. Watch me shoot one handed , pretending my weak arm was shot and cannot use it, or, shoot while holding a "child" and evading.
4. Watch me shoot through a "kitchen cabinet" and bust a cantaloupe [head of BG] with a 20 ga slug and NOT hit the cardboard target hostage.
One has to actually get and do , to know what does what.
Yes, one can miss a fire with a fire extinguisher too...
Preventative Measures, Training and Practice, to know what works, coupled with effective communication geared to the lowest level of understanding and ability.
Not just Guns.
Fire is often more often the threat a home/family will have to deal with.
Knowing where the rest of the family is, having a plan to ensure everyone's safety is critical.
Is there a 4 year old in the house for instance? Yelling something out, never yelled before, trained, practiced in words this 4 y/o has no idea the meaning is not a good thing, be it a Gun or Fire Extinguisher situation.
What about the 80 y/o with a Walker? Again, yelling " watch six and hit the deck", is not going to be of much good.
One has to actually go out and shoot guns for tasks in a structure, be it home, business , apt, or condo - to know what they can do with what they have.
Just like actually letting a kid use a small kitchen fire extinguisher to let them know what to expect if they have to use one...
Box of baking soda to toss out a grease fire, let them do this, even if outside on the grill.
Folks laugh at my Youth H&R Single shot 20 ga with fixed modified choke.
Until they:
1. Miss with it with all them #3 pellets at 5 yards a sheet of typing paper.
2. See the pattern of where the pattern did go.
3. Watch me shoot one handed , pretending my weak arm was shot and cannot use it, or, shoot while holding a "child" and evading.
4. Watch me shoot through a "kitchen cabinet" and bust a cantaloupe [head of BG] with a 20 ga slug and NOT hit the cardboard target hostage.
One has to actually get and do , to know what does what.
Yes, one can miss a fire with a fire extinguisher too...
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