Fights are becoming more and more common around my home. What to do?

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I would move as soon as feasible. Your neighborhood situation isn't going to improve.
Sorry if this bothers some people, but that attitude makes me sick to my stomach. This is the learned defenselessness that we complain about in the sheeple. Your neighborhood situation CAN improve, it just takes more work than sitting there complaining and calling the cops.
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Well, if subjecting your family to living in a economically depreciating fortress surrounded by hostile, dangerous thugs seems noble and virtuous to you--go for it.

The original post doesn't give us a lot of specific demographic detail but most of us understand the realities of urban America. I suspect that most of those who urge others to stand and fight do so from the safety of much safer neighborhoods.

For good or ill certain realities cannot be discussed on THR. Some on THR pretend those realities don't exist, others refuse to acknowledge them. Nevertheless, most people act in accord with those realities but pretend that they do so for other, politically correct reasons.
 
If people keep moving away, then eventually, there will be no where to go after all the "good places" are filled up, then eventually infected by human evil. Humans are humans. Its sad, however, I believe that today's world is fast paced, stringent and unforgiving. This is a breeding ground for disenchanted youth and evil to begin. Evil wins when good men do nothing.
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That has not proven to be the case in Houston, Texas at all. The inner city neighborhoods where Suburban folks dared not tread have changed. The property values went up and people with money started moving back in. Those bad neighborhoods no longer supported poor folks and they moved out to the suburbs where I used to live.

The suburb of my youth (70's) is gone baby, gone. Drive the main drag and if you don't speak spanish, you don't know what each business is. White flight is right... that is exactly what has happened. They have moved to further out suburbs where commute times are not measured in minutes but "an hour and......". Where the center of your Universe moves outside the city.

11 years ago my wife and I were driving around looking at Christmas lights in our 'inner suburb'. There were 5 or 6 youths on a street corner at a light. When I stopped, one of them walked out and spit on my car. As I unbuckled my seat belt, they all started talking... "Come on ******, get out of your car you chicken **** *****...." There was no doubt in my mind their entire idea was confrontation and I was falling for it.

Luckily my wife grabbed my sleeve and screamed at me... I mean it scared me... GET BACK IN THE CAR AND DRIVE!!! Luckily I did. That was not the first weird thing that had happened to us in our first house. But it was the last. We moved less than a year later. That neighborhood went downhill so fast, it turned into one of those that most people would not drive into for any reason.

Within that 11 years, it has now come full circle... people with money are buying up these smallish homes on big lots (my back yard was about 1/3 acre) that were built in the 50's and rebuilding them into McMansions. Could I have stayed and made money? You bet. Do I regret it? Not for one moment. We were very scientific about where to move... breaking down the entire city into quadrants with no maximium distance limitation. As we ruled areas out, by default we ruled other areas as more likely until we found the place we wanted to live.

She doesn't live here any more, but I do! :D And I absolutely LOVE IT. My problems with teenagers are the usual loud music, driving too fast and very rarely one coming home late at night drunk and loud. I made money on the sale of my first house. I didn't have to spend a fortune turning it into a fortress. I stopped having to repair vandalism. I don't feel the need to grab a 1911 just to check the mailbox. How much is your peace of mind worth to you?
 
QUOTE :Well, if subjecting your family to living in a economically depreciating fortress surrounded by hostile, dangerous thugs seems noble and virtuous to you--go for it."

I think this just about covers it. I'm sorry if my attitude "makes you sick" , but the fact is that people are getting mean & cities (even small ones) are getting dangerous. Kids join gangs today the way we joined Scouts when I was a kid. Gangbangers ( the real ones) live on "at war" footing. There's a new term that's begining to pop up "urban combat vetran" it's being used to describe these kids who've been in a hell of a lot more firefights than I have.

I'm not prepared to battle that , and I'm not interested either. My neighborhood isn't bad by any means, but at night it fills up W/ homeless people & transiants. & I can see the direction things are heading in. violent crime is up, home invasions are up ,and guess what, if you sucessfully defend your home against one, you've pretty much just started a war

We just had an incident here in the Springs in which a home owner did sucessfully defend his home against a home invasion I think 1 BG dead 1 wounded . The wounded one spent time in the hospital , was transfered to the jail posted bail, & went right back to the same house & did a drive by.

Over all I think cities are becoming unsafe & I think people, especially the younger ones, are becoming meaner and more violent as well as a lot more willing to kill.

If the first rule of responsible gun ownership is to avoid trouble when possible , I'd say you'd avoid 90% of your trouble by getting out of the city.

Daniel-san, Best block no be there
 
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I'd move.

In the meantime consider ADT instead of or in addition to a dog. Video cameras are an excellent idea as is audio surveillance.

Most of the other suggestions are for people who can't move - I neither want to live behind wire nor do I trust myself never to find the enemy inside the wire.
 
Two options:
1) Stay and fight. Much harder, sometimes impossible to win, have a lawyer ready. (All a kid has to do is say you hit him, and you have to prove you didn't)

2) Move. Definitely easier, but the problem might start all over in your new residence.

I've lived in the harsher parts of the city, as well as the nicer parts of BFE. I prefer BFE, life is much simpler and I have a 20 acre barrier from anyone. (Besides if someone wants to tag my place at -25F, let them. After they spend an hour trying to get the paint to unfreeze, they'll probably give up :)
 
Markbo,

you describe an economic cycle unique to big cities. San Antonio is approaching that point now. As you mention, Houston is currently going through that change. I live in Austin and our down town area is now WAY too expensive for the poor. I used to live in a Austin suburb and its crime rate was increasing as prices in downtown Austin increased. The sad part is that isn't really making anywhere safer...rather the criminals just move around and become more familiar with the rest of the town. I mean, even in the small towns off 290 between austin and houston you can find lots of thugs...likewise in downtown austin and houston as well as the rest of the metro areas. Dont really feel safe using a rest area in the middle of BF.

The thing the OP needs to keep in mind is things like this will happen everywhere. If he really wants his family to be well provided for he needs to take a look at the local schools and move where his kids will go to nice schools. Crime will happen there too.... but his kids will have a chance at least.
 
OK, sorry for not getting back to this sooner, I had to fly last night.

Anyway, I have no front yard. The front yard is a little garden plot and a porch. My house is the middle house in a row of attached housing, so no fencing, either. I have no room for a dog, we tried once before and quickly found out how small the house really was.

So that leaves me with two options: grin and bare it, or get the hell out of here. Right now I'm stuck with Option One, so how do I make the best of a potentially disastrous situation? This is not the inner city, mind you, but rural South Central Pennsylvania. It's just the "poorer" part of town, in between the school and the "poorest" part of town.

What's really amusing is that with all that is going on, the police station is only a block and a half away. It's almost as though it's completely unexpected. I guess ticket money means more to the town than safety, even for the kids that get caught up in stuff that they want no part of.

I'll have to see about getting my neighbors active. That's really all there is, other than a more or less continuous police presence. The cops are quick with a parking ticket on street-sweeping day, but they never seem to be around when you need them (and boy, doesn't that sound familiar?).
 
The cops are quick with a parking ticket on street-sweeping day, but they never seem to be around when you need them (and boy, doesn't that sound familiar?).
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I am sure a local TV station would love to hear that too? Do you have an investigative reporter locally? I know ours would LOVE to have that sort of conspiracy theory to chase down.
 
How about some outdoor speakers and church music? Amazing Grace and other classics preferably sung by children and played at the loudest volume your neighbors can stand.
 
If you can't leave start W/ the basics Alarm(s) in the car(s), nothing of value left out ( or in the cars). Doors STAY locked, and if you're not expecting someone or you don't know the person WELL you don't answer the door.
SIDE NOTE I remember this so well because it happened the night Karla Faye Tucker (Browne) was executed. Anyway I was working for a carpet cleaning company and that night I had to clean 3 rooms W/ blood all over them. the blood was there because somebody had followed my customer home from a bar , knocked on the door and the customer opened it. It turned out to be an attempted home invasion. the customer said he was stabbed 14 times trying to fight the BG off. If you don't know the person knocking on your door DON'T ANSWER IT.

that's where I'd start & I'd make sure the family understood the rules
 
I would also add to the sentiment of keep calling the police.

Honestly, the squeaky wheel gets the grease... Keep contacting the local PD, hopefully they'll get the SRO's involved at the local HS, and hopefully some of the patrol guys can swing by your street during the hours that these problems are occuring.

Talk to the CRO's at your local station, and be sure to make multiple requests for "extra patrol". If you have neighbors you know, encourage them to make requests for extra patrol too!

At least where I work, we always try to be responsive to problems that are developing within the community. Obviously one of the problems in law enforcement is exactly that (we are, ultimately, mostly a responsive organization). Nevertheless, you (as a resident) have far more knowledge of what is happening on your block than the average police officer does (since that officer is tasked with protecting an entire city, or at least a significant portion of it).

So, keep the good guys in the loop, and don't give up any ground to the trouble makers :)
 
Get together with the neighbors, all of you call the police and if the situation doesn't improve everyone chip in for a class action suit against the police. This is the job of the police - to protect communities. Then you can move with the suit money.

You said it yourself, "The rules of the street have changed." Would you have moved here knowing that you'd need to lock everything out of a real threat of loss? If no, it is time to start making a plan to move on.

It seems to me that anything you do will get you messed up somehow. If the "children" attack you and you defend yourself you go to prison. Especially if it was just the kids attacking each other and you intervened.

I know that for me, this situation would irritate me too much - one of the things I've learned being a CCW holder is to not allow myself to get too irritated - to remove myself from situation that cause such irritation.

People here saying to stick and fight - to bring a "war" to take back the streets don't appreciate that it really would be war, in the von Clausewitz sense of the word.

If you aren't happy with police response, start calling the local TV stations immediately after calling the police. Again, this isn't a threat to you as an individual but to the community as a whole - this is the police's job.

Good luck, stay safe, and have my sympathies - you're in one of the worst situations to be in in today's world.
 
Airman, what is the configuration of your back yard? Does it have access to an alley? If it does maybe you can park your car back there so it's off the street. Most towns in your part of PA are laid out like that. Maybe park the other care on a different street the kids don't frequent as much.

Is it practical to fence in the back yard?

Beyond that, maybe find out what it would cost to harden the front of the house a bit. Things like window bars and a steel door and steel door frame. If the situation does not warrant it now, at least you know how much cash to put aside for later.

The best advice I can give for keeping your own kid out of that crowd is to get on your knees and pray for him, make sure you have a good relationship with him, and if you can afford it send him to a good private school or homeschool him.

If the street kids want to fight amongst themselves, just let them go. Call the police if you must, but just let them hash it out. There is nothing you can really do about it that will make things any better.
 
I grew up with kids like that. Hated all of them. Someone should round them all up, lock them in a warehouse, and give them grenades and let the problem kill...uh, solve itself

seriously. I'd consider moving to a less trashy place in your state. I am kind of lucky that the trash kids were a minority (not as in color, but as in there wasnt many of them after awhile). You either had the thug wannabes or the potheads, and most of them get taken care of real quick.

If you're lucky, you'll see more and more of them not walking down your street anymore because they'll either be in juvi or because they'll shape up.
 
Rent a skunk. Seriously. Put it in a cage hidden in some bushes next to the sidewalk. Have a couple of wires run from the house to give the skunk a mild shock just to upset 'im, and have another wire set up to open the cage. I don't think anyone is going to stand around watching/encouraging folks to fight when a PO'ed skunk is cutting loose.

I won't tell you where I got this idea, but it cuts down on loitering, I'm told.

No skunks were harmed in the posting of this message.

ECS
 
RP88 said:
I grew up with kids like that.
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Heck, I was that kid.

If you are seeking real change--and for the good of society in general, change must come--you won't do it solely by the stick.

The kids will change like they always have, that being, they turn to a new idea, a positive idea, that engages them to work toward an acceptable new concept.

I'm not a kids' counselor, so I don't know where this magic wand is or how it works, but it worked for me.

By the way, if someone would have "gassed" me with skunk scent in 1966, I'd have taken a very, very sharp stiletto and opened him up like a can of beans.
 
Someone said earlier in the thread that the problem was that five percent of the schoolkids were incorrigibles, the rest were good.

Nonsense. Those five percent are the new examples, the empowered ones. They can do as they wish. The authorities are toothless and running scared, as far as the kids are concerned.
The proof was in the numbers.
What were they, something like 100 students suspended something like 17,000 times - and RETURNING TO SCHOOL!
Preposterous!

By the way, I lived in the inner city of East L.A., in one of the thin white strips between the barrio and the projects.
My advice? Fight for enough time to get out gracefully, but get out of there.

-And don't expect the police to save the situation.
 
Indianapolis is a "nice" city. We moved from a "nice" neighborhood (Broad Ripple) when we were told our daughter would have to wear a school uniform because of the risk of gang violence.

In Kindergarten.

Democrat controlled cities are festering pus pockets. Get out.

There's nothing immoral about a strategic withdrawal.

Let the little dirtbags kill each other.

Think of it as evolution in action.

You can't change them, and killing them is illegal. If the CITY won't pony up the money to fight the problem, it's over.

JMHO
 
I've heard lots of good suggestions:
-get on a first name basis with local PD (in a good way).
-talk to the principal at the school, e-mail works if it's hard to make an appointment.
-lock and secure car and home.
-get a video camera if you don't already have one, you have a young family...you'll use it anyway.
-don't make yourself a target by threatening a group of kids, they will come back at you when your not home.
-get a dog (My wife and I live in a 513 sq ft apartment with a German Shepherd).
-if it escalates talk to the media...
-move when possible if nothing else works.
Bad suggestions:
-fire hose...I grew up in Alabama.
-the misquito device, it will have the same effect on your kid.
-paintball gun...lawsuit.
Good luck:)
 
Anyway, I have no front yard. The front yard is a little garden plot and a porch.
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Sounds like you should take up an interest in growing roses. There are some roses that are very hardy and bug resistant and all of them look nice. You should plant roses under all of your windows as well if possible. Getting as many of your neighbors to grow roses on what ever little plots they have in their font yards will help as well. Instead of mulch, use volcanic rock- it will require a little more watering than mulch because it doesn't hold moisture in, but you wouldn't want to sit on this stuff let alone roll in it. Another upside is that 2" volcanic rock probably won't be heavy enough to break your windows if it were to become a projectile.
 
Disclaimer: I am not advocating breaking any laws or causing any harm to anyone, just the musings of a cranky old man. A Wrist rocket is silent. Marbles boiled then immersed in cold water while still hot develop inner cracks and tend to burst apart on impact. Random projectiles raining from the sky upon miscreants cause consternation among said miscreants, possibly even starting a fight between the struck miscreant and whoever is closest to him on the basis of thinking that person struck him. A co-worker claimed to have caused considerable annoyance and inconvenience to the inhabitants of a safe house for illegal aliens (ooops- excuse me, that's "undocumented workers.") who had been causing him no end of problems with noise and rowdy behavior. No one was killed or seriously injured, but he took immense satisfaction in returning some of the irritation they had caused him. Again- not advocating harm to anyone, just a story that may or may not be true.:evil:
 
Or one of those water balloon launchers--a giant slingshot--with some unsavory projectiles could be MOST entertaining.

Of course, I would never endorse such a thing in real life, but it would make a very amusing youtube video.
 
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