Finding a good 1st rifle.

[billzrifle]

Hi everyone,

New to the high road and firearms in general. I'm ready to buy a rifle but thought I should do my research first.

I know I want bolt action, preferably a .270, but I'm not stuck on it. I really like the T/C encore with the barrel break but I still don't know enough

I'll be mainly using it for target practice and long range plinking with friends. Shooting probably no longer than 500 yds when I'm good enough anyways. $700 is my max (with scope).

Suggestions....?

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Have a look at the more classic target calibres. the .308 and the 6mm / 6.5mm. Nothing wrong with the .270 but traditionally more applied in hunting, you will find it more expensive to shoot as well. If shooting the .308 or the 6/6.5mm you will find the recoil more acceptable which allows you to shoot more with less discomfort which should lead to improved accuracy.

 

[docsleepy]

If you are willing to learn how to reload, this will go much better. You'll need either a lot of reading or a helpful mentor. Ammo will be 1/3 the price for you, and anywhere up to 3x the accuracy.

A good .223 will be very cheap to load for, and with an 8 or 9" twist you can use 60-69 grain bullets where there are plenty of match bullets to choose from. Brass is cheap and lasts a long while.

You can start even with a $26 Lee Loader and a $1.99 rubber hammer.

I like Savages, but Remington, Tika, Sako....lots of good rifles out there.

243 and 7mm08 would have flat trajectory (flatter than .308) -- try the 120 grains in 7mm08.

I would strongly suggest buying something with a varmint or bull barrel on it, get some kind of a front rest (I use the Rock BR), and get a leather rear rest. Find a club that has any kind of accuracy competition and go watch, then ask questions. It was there that I first saw people putting five bullets inside a dime-- and losing. Blew my mind and opened up a lot of learning possibilities.

 

[jogar80]

I have a TC Encore and several bolt actions of various brands. The Encore is great and is my main hunting rifle. The break barrel makes the overall length of the rifle very short since it lacks an "action", and that makes it very handy in the brush or inside an enclosed blind. However, if you are looking for a rifle that will mostly get used for target shooting, I would stick to bolt actions. Encore and other break barrels offer good accuracy, but are usually a step below bolts in that department.

 

[tahoe2]

Hey billzrifle

welcome aboard ! 270 Win is a great long distance round(so is 25-06), however, (and this is just my opinion) a break action would be upset after every shot, for loading the next round.
When shooting long distance, I would want to keep the rifle in the same position as I cycle the next round, as in a bolt action.
Lots of great bolt guns on the used market if you know what to look for, Savage 110 series comes to mind, lots of aftermarket parts available and calibers can be easily changed.
Money saved on the rifle can go to a higher quality scope which is a key piece in long distance shooting.
Good Luck and keep us posted !

 

[docsleepy]

I had a Savage varmint barrel that would group 5 shots at 0.5" at 100 yards, right from the factory, using handloaded rounds. Wished I'd kept it!

The advantage of the Savages is that they use a "nut" to hold the barrel into the receiver. While this does have disadvantages, a big ADvantage is that you can buy your own prefit barrel (eg., from Shilen) and install it yourself (after you read about headspace and buy a small tool) instead of needing a gunsmith. I built a 6PPC that way. And a 7mm08. I have another Shilen barrel on order right now.

The disadvantage of the Savage is their triggers are more difficult to replace with an extremely light competition trigger. It can be done, but with somewhat more difficulty.

Remingtons are more accepted for more serious (but not costly) target work, and you can even use a "nut" with them if you like. Their trigger is evidently easier to replace (I haven't done it).

The Savage Accutrigger is quite nice in my experience, and you can get it down to 2lbs or so which is reasonable for target work. I have an Evolution set to 5 ounces and I really like it, but it took some doing.

.223 has less recoil, cheaper, readily available, and easy to reload for.

 

[Savage99]

Welcome to the forum Bilz.

Tell us what rifles that you have looked at in your local store.

When I started out in the 1950's we wanted military rounds as the ammo was easier to get and that's what they shot in competition.

Wear double ear protection and use a soft recoil pad.

 

[I6turbo]

It might not be what you envision starting with and not the best if you truly move straight to 500 yard shooting, but I would go with something along the lines of a .223 for a first centerfire. For my first centerfire I started with a .30 caliber many years ago, then a couple years later picked up a .22-250 and quickly became a MUCH better shooter with the smaller caliber because it wasn't punishing to fire a bunch of rounds in an outing, and I could better concentrate and practice on technique. I currently have some 30 caliber guns, but the .223 is still my favorite round for most centerfire shooting out to 300 yards or so. It's not an exotic, you won't be the only kid on the block with one, or anything like that, but it's just a very sweet round that's fun to shoot, IMO. And for your $700 budget, I'd find a good gun for $450 or so, and then find a good deal on a decent scope. Don't put so much money in the gun that you can't get a decent scope. For me, that'd most likely mean looking at excellent-condition used guns and scopes, or possibly finding a used gun and scope/rings being sold as a package which usually means a better deal than buying them separately. There's just so much value to be found there if you search out the used bargains. But as they say, YMMV.

 

[witchhunter]

Welcome, I am another one for a bolt rifle. .223 .22-250 .243 .260 7/08 .308 the short actions are cheaper to shoot, less recoil, and are great for target shooting. Reloading will allow you to shoot more, and usually more accurately. Enjoy the sport.

 

[TAKtical]

If you dont have one already, be sure to buy a .22lr. cheap practice and a good training tool.

 

[bluekouki86]

Can't ignore a Mosin Nagant. You can find them for $100 and cheap ammo all day long. My first rifle (besides .22) was a $75 dollar M44 and was a great learning tool. Can't beat the price to firepower ratio either.

 

[oldpapps]

billzrifle,

Welcome to the forum.

From your post, I can only think that you do not have any long guns. This would indicate that you are a novice. Not knowing what if any back ground you may have or mentor or potential mentor and the degree of understanding and experience you may enjoy, I can only speculate. (Boy that was a mouth full )

On ward. I feel that a very new beginner is better served with a reasonable quality .22 RF. This is both (normally) cheaper to shoot - a lot and does not promote bad habits caused by recoil. Note, get good ear protection now and use it every time you shoot. Tinnitus is no fun.... Hopefully you know someone who shoots and is not a crack pot (did I say that?).

Alternate. You have some experience or have gained some from above.

The next step is a center fire rifle. Dollars do count here. Used is good. Common chamberings are more readily and cheaper to find ammunition. Also, there is much more understanding of these and the loosers will have been weeded out long ago. I will go along with the .223 for a start. Again, easy and cheaper to get the ammunition (in normal times) and limited recoil.

Side bar here. Recoil in its self is to be expected and more so for more potent rounds. The BIG problem is to not cause bad habits early on.

As your understanding and experience grows, you will be better able to guide yourself to other weapons.

Reloading is three fold. First is a great way to save money. Second is to give much better understanding of just what each weapon/cartridge is truly capable in your hands. And number three, fine tuning your loadings for your weapon and gaining the best potential accuracy.

Do continue to read and study. Don't take any ONE view as the only view. Most importantly enjoy yourself and be safe.

 

[MK75]

Personally, I am thinking about getting the Ruger American for my son as his first rifle. My wife wants a Browning X-Bolt Medallion for her first. .243, or 7-08 for the boy (haven't decided yet) and .270 for the wife.

 

[jaimeshawn3]

My daughter shoots a Mossberg 270. Plenty of power for elk; Plenty of range for antelope. Synthetic stock. You could get one for $300 and have coin for reloading and a scope.

 

[BobbleShot]

You can't go wrong with an Encore. All the calibers I have tried have shot well.
The only thing negative I can say about the Encore is that the barrel is not free floating and they really like to be held tight when you shoot. If you plan to let the rifle rest with no pressure, plan on opening up your groups. .270 is a good round and readily available. If you have gun legislation bull(&) happening you can still readily get projectiles for this one. edit( Re-reading your question, you might consider a .243 if you are doing a bunch of plinking. They are generally accurate, cheaper, available and won't teach you bad habits by hurting your shoulder) Unfortunately the .223 isn't the same. It is a volatile market so unless you have access to ammo right now, I'd probably pass on it or the .308.
I think for a well priced rifle, Savage is tough to beat. They are pretty crude, but they shoot well. They are a little more forgiving than than the Thompson. Good luck on whatever you choose.

 

[Whacked]

For a first rifle I would recommend a 22LR first and foremost.

I have a Marlin 795 (can get for under $150). Awesome rifle, shoots better than I do. only real problem is lack of after market goodies. Heck, cant even find extra mags anywhere. limited to 10rnd mags or 25rnd after market (if you can find em)

Another good one is the 22LR that sets the standards for all others, the Ruger 10/22
Can pick one up for around $250 (?? havent priced one in a long time). PLENTY of aftermarket goodies for just about anything.

the other company 22 rifles I dont have any experience with, but I imagine they are just fine.

Get some trigger time with a 22, then start looking for a centerfire rifle.

 

[Kachok]

Nothing wrong with either the encore or the 270 caliber, but neither one is very popular with the long ranged shooting crowd. The encore is easly out classed by some of the super accurate bolt rifles out there, the 270 lacks the ballistic performance of the slightly smaller 6.5mm and the slightly larger 7mm bores. I like a 270 myself but as a hunting rifle, if I were to compete at long range I would opt for my 6.5x55 it is the most accurate rifle I own.
On a budget the best rifle going is the Savage, really good rifles for a fair price I have owned six of them and have yet to have a complaint. Bought my last one brand new with a POS Bushnell scope for $386 and it shoots remarkably well. If you go that route do yourself a favor and replace those package scopes they are worthless, get a Nikon and Reaper one piece rings/mounts you will thank me later.

 

[vaupet]

Welcome to the forum,

I own an Interarms mark X in 270, and it is a great hunting rifle.

I never use it for target shooting, as it's barrel is to thin, its recoil to heavy and its ammo to expensive. (after ten fast shots, my barrel is hot and my shoulder and wallet hurt)

For a beginning shooter I would advise at least to start with a 22 LR, think CZ 455, also available in .17hmr, to get a lot of trigger time, practising, with no worries about recoil or ammo cost. after 1000 rounds, the ammo cost you gained got you this rifle for free and it will be great to teach others (including your own kids). If you get a nice one used, you can always sell it a nearly no loss.

By going to the range with your 22lr, you get to see and learn a lot from other experienced shooters. If you are a bit of a nice guy, you get to try and shoot all kind of stuff, thus enabling you to make a better choice about what you like.

for me, for ranges between 100 and 300 metres I use a 223, very accurate and reasonably cheap, in a good bolt action. (mine is an Anshutz 1770)

After that, in my mind, there is no substitute for the 6,5x55. It was the standard round for long range competitions for years and it got replaced by other 6,5 mm rounds which are a bit more accurate for a lot more money.

If you do want to to take up hunting: 6,5 kill's about everything as dead as it gets.

have fun

 

[billzrifle]

Update

Just went shooting with some friends up in the mountains.Had the opportunity to shoot a Marlin model 80 lever action 30-30, Ruger .22, AR-15, AR-22?, and a Remington 870 (tactical and express original). Also a Glock 23.

I did the best (not surprisingly) with the.22's and the AR's. Next was the 870 express filters by the glock. The Marlin had some kick and after already putting about 90 12ga shells down range, it felt like my shoulder needed to be replaced.

So now I'm wondering if i still stick with a .270 or go smaller cal. Is the 270 going to kick like a 30-30, or did my shoulder just have enough for the day?

 

[Welding Rod]

billzrifle,

Reloading is three fold. First is a great way to save money. Second is to give much better understanding of just what each weapon/cartridge is truly capable in your hands. And number three, fine tuning your loadings for your weapon and gaining the best potential accuracy.

I think first should probably be "shoot more" rather than "save money"!

Once I started reloading I started shooting way more than ever and the ammo bill went way up as a result.

 

[Ed Ames]

Some 30-30 rifles are miserable (my opinion) out of all proportion to the actual recoil. It's a matter of ergonomics more than physics.

That said... .270 is a significantly more powerful round.

My advice would be .22lr, and shorter ranges for now. If you can't punch one ragged half inch (or so) hole with a good .22 at 25 yards, you aren't shooting well enough to justify longer ranges. You'll just end up walking more and shooting less.

 

[jpwilly]

The 270 will kick harder than the 30-30 lever gun. Most of the kick can be tamed by a properly fit rifle. most of the 30-30's I've shot didn't even have a recoil pad and IMO suck to shoot. I shoot a 30-06 and when I do I put a aftermarket slip on recoil pad over the factory one and the rifle seems softer than the 308 to me.

 

[oldpapps]

Ergonomics.

The weight of the weapon and how well or poorly it fits you makes a great difference.

Also, just how big and tough are you? Ever here of Elmer Keith? He was a very small in stature man and promoted 'big' bore rifles and shot them all. He said that he would 'whip with the recoil'. A solid person absorbs the recoil. Someone light and wiry goes with it.

Reloading is your friend here. I have a Rem 600 in .308 Win and with 'factor' spec ammunition, it produces over 17 foot pound of free recoil. Same weapon in .223 is 3 1/2 foot pounds. I load wimp/soft loads for this rifle and it, luckily, shoots very well with them. Always remember there are all kinds of recoil reducing products that will help.

Enjoy the quest.

 

[CmdrSlander]

This: http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11HOGHUNTER

The Savage Hog Hunter in .308 Winchester.

(You don't have to be a hog hunter to use it). It has irons so you don't have to get a scope right away. It has a great trigger and is built on an inherently accurate action that is easy to work on. It won't run you more than $500 and is ready to go out of the box thanks to the irons. It has a threaded barrel, which you won't have much use for now but its an option that you might use later for a suppressor - or if you are recoil shy a nice thread on muzzle brake. It can kill just about any game animal you might fancy taking. If I had to do it all over again this is what I'd buy for a first rifle.

If you want cheaper shooting get the same gun in .223.

 

[Cee Zee]

Another good one is the 22LR that sets the standards for all others, the Ruger 10/22

Sets what standard? Certainly not accuracy, value or build quality. Hype maybe. It never ceases to amaze me what people will say about what is essentially a run of the mill rifle. I've seen all sorts of .22's that were more accurate and built better and were semi-automatic too. I'm not talking "just" about Marlins. Remingtons, Winchesters, and T/C's all come to mind as better rifles than the Ruger. It depends on the rifle model of course and some of the rifles I've seen are out of production but the idea that Ruger sets the standard is just wrong. They don't.

Learning to shoot on a .22 has a whole lot of advantages like cheap ammo costs (in normal times anyway) and needing less room to stretch out for more challenging distances.

For a 500 yard target rifle it's almost impossible to beat a Savage 12 but they will be out of your budget unless you buy a used model and even then it will be hard to get a rifle and scope for that price. Still you can expect exceptional results with that rifle. The T/C you mention is a hunting rifles. The 12 is usually either a target rifle or a varmint rifles. Both will be more accurate than your average hunting rifle but they will be heavier too. There are always trade offs. My hunting rifle is a Savage 110. My target rifle is a 12 in .223.

The weight of the pull of the AccuTrigger was mentioned in an earlier post. Savage does sell rifles with their target AccuTrigger. It can be set down to 6 oz. but most find it hard to keep it from causing the sear lock to engage unless they keep the pull weight up to about 12 oz.. That's as low as I can get mine before the sear block engages every time I close the bolt.

I paid $900 for my Savage 12 LRPV with the target AccuTrigger. But it had only been shot less than 10 times. It shouldn't be too hard to find one as low as $750. Of course that eats up your budget with no room left for glass. You could do well with a $100 scope but you won't win any contests with a scope like that. Still in the right shooting location you can learn to shoot with a scope like that. You just need to be able to tell where your shots are hitting. You could get a better scope down the road.

It's nothing for my 12 to shoot 2" groups at 500 yards. Beyond that distance wind will become a factor on a .223. People do shoot them 1000 yards or more and do it well but that takes years of practice and lots of learning to get to that point. I'd say you could be shooting tight groups at 500 yards within a few months depending on how much time you put into it.

For the price you won't be able to match what a Savage with a target action can do IMO. Savage even has good results shooting against custom built rifles costing many thousands of dollars. And that's in international shooting competitions. Check out this link and you'll see what a stock 12 is capable of doing:

http://savageftrreview.webs.com/updatesonteamsavage.htm