Firearm for a new shooter

[joneb]

A lady friend of my wife is thinking of buying and learning to shoot a handgun for self defense. She may wish to get a CCW permit, she has no firearm background and has some arthritis in her hands.
My thought is a 5 shot 38 spl. all steel frame with a 2-3" barrel, is this a good recommendation?

 

[Manny]

A 3" barrel revolver might work, 2" for a new shooter would be tough. I understand wanting a steel frame to minimize recoil, but personally I think the 3" Ruger LCR would be a great choice. Big enough to shoot well, adjustable white insert/outline sights are easier to see than the blued steel that seems standard for these guns. Easy to install a tritium or F/O front sight and a great trigger. Yeah it's light, but a good comfortable grip and if she shoots wadcutters for minimal recoil I would think she'd do fine with it.

 

[MedWheeler]

Again?

Anyone with 3,500+ posts here has certainly seen the sticky on "wives/girlfriends getting guns", has had countless opportunities to search the eleventy-teen threads already on the subject (all of which describe the reasons a .38 snub is not always the best choice), and has browsed www.corneredcat.com before.

What did your wife tell her?

 

[Tallball]

I think that revolvers are better for new shooters. If they "get into it" and enjoy practicing, cool. They can always get a semi-automatic later. If they are going to take one class, go to the range twice, and then it sits in a drawer for ten years, a revolver is a better choice. (If you enjoy shooting that scenario may be hard for you to wrap your head around, but I think it happens a lot.)

If the new shooter enjoys recoil, cool. They can blaze away with 357's or 45's or whatever. But if you start them off with something that is unpleasant for them, you have just created someone who doesn't like shooting. If at all possible, take them to the range and have them shoot a 22 until they're bored and want something spicier. I then work them up through different 32's and a gentle 380 and on up until we get an idea of what they're comfortable with.

Ideally they can handle a medium-frame 357 with a 4" barrel, even if they just shoot mild 38's through it. That worked for LEO's for a long time and is reasonable for SD. If mild 38's are too much for them regardless of the revolver being used, the 32 magnum calibers are a good choice. They are effective, and the 32 H&R is mild enough that my daughter could shoot it easily at a young age. If even that is too much, 32 S&W long is WAY more effective than a 22 and has barely more recoil.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

For some reason many people think a short barrel revolver like the J frame is a good choice for a new shooter, it is not. The short sight radius added to the heavier trigger makes shooting a J frame well difficult. It's more of a professional gun that a starter. This doesn't mean it's a bad choice, only that the shooter has to be informed that a lot of practice is necessary to shoot it well.

My suggestion, try and find a handgun SD class locally that provides the guns. This way she can use several types of handguns under supervision and decide which is best for her.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

For some reason many people think a short barrel revolver like the J frame is a good choice for a new shooter, it is not. The short sight radius added to the heavier trigger makes shooting a J frame well difficult. It's more of a professional gun that a starter. This doesn't mean it's a bad choice, only that the shooter has to be informed that a lot of practice is necessary to shoot it well.

My suggestion, try and find a handgun SD class locally that provides the guns. This way she can use several types of handguns under supervision and decide which is best for her.

ArchAngelCD illustrated my sentiments exactly. Start a new shooter off with a full sized gun like a 4" L frame or a full sized 9mm auto loader, not a short barreled, small framed gun.

Small guns are harder to shoot accurately, the recoil impulse is stronger, and for a woman with arthritis will likely be painful. Starting her out with a 5 shot 38 special, even with light loads, could make things unpleasant for her.

Small carry guns should be introduced after shooting a full sized gun so they see the stark difference, and know fully what they are getting into.

I took my girlfriend shooting not long ago, and she stated she had shot a Kimber before and really liked it. I didn't have a 1911 along that day, but did have her shoot my HK45. She really liked it. She made a statement that she wanted to get a small little 45 to carry. I said "That's what I carry, but before you make that decision, I think you should shoot my carry gun to see how it feels." I had her shoot my XDs 45 and after one magazine she handed it back and said "I don't like it. It hurts."

If I'd started her on that gun, she likely never even would have considered carrying. She has since settled on a 9mm for carry. 38 specials don't kick much, but in a small gun, they may be more than she is ready for.

 

[psyopspec]

Counter to conventional wisdom (which is thankfully eroding, albeit gradually), when my wife had an injured hand our go-to night stand gun for her was a Glock 19 with an extended magazine. We figured it was better to have 24 rounds on board before having to worry about a reload if the gun were needed. Traditionalists would argue the simplicity of shooting a revolver. I would respond that they're difficult to shoot well, and even if one were to concede the simplicity of shooting, that comes a fumbling end for the unsophisticated shooter when it's time to reload.

Better, for us anyway, to have a gun with nearly 500% more ammunition in a package that's easier to shoot accurately and much more likely to carry one through an encounter without the need for a reload (but be easier to execute if it were required).

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Arthritis means oversized controls that are easily manipulated would be welcome.

So tiny or hard-to actuate knobs and releases would suck. And only get worse as arthritis gets worse.

Sturdy sights that would allow a one-hand rack against an object would be helpful if an auto loader is to be considered.

 

[Mgaines]

You might want to check on ccw, in Oklahoma if you qualify with a revolver then you can only use revolver and derringer, if you qualify with a semi automatic you can carry anything, it would make since to use one of ur semi's then by a 38 revolver if that is what she wants.

 

[Shaq]

I've found that different new shooters all have different perceptions & tolerance levels for recoil. And it has nothing to do with their size & strength. My GF is 115 lbs with tiny hands but her favorite gun to shoot is my Glock Mod. 21. Her hands can't completely wrap around the grip & the gun is completely vertical with each shot but it doesn't bother her a bit. But a buddy tried my S&W 500 only ONE shot, said, "Oh s---" & put it down. He's 6'6" & 350 lbs. & a serious bodybuilder.

I'd take her to the range & start with a light load in 38 special with a heavy 357 Magnum revolver (if available). That will give both of you an idea of her recoil tolerance level. Then she can progress to lighter, smaller guns. I took a female new shooter to the range & she enjoyed shooting my Ruger GP-100 with 38 Specials but did not like my S&W 625. Sometimes the way the grip fits a particular hand has a lot to do with felt recoil. The GP-100's grip just happened to fit her hand better than the Hogue grip that came on the S&W. Starting her out with a light gun is a roll of the dice; she may be OK or she may develop a flinch & distaste for shooting.

Or, you can test that with an empty gun as I've done many times with new shooters. Have her hold a gun with two hands, extended as if she was shooting. (double check that it's unloaded, of course). Wrap one hand around the end of the barrel with the thumb & index finger overlapping. Hit the front of the barrel with your other hand, simulating expected recoil. That will give her an idea of what to expect, making it less of a surprise.

I would not start a new shooter with a semi auto. Besides the arthritis issue, more importantly, from a safety standpoint, an auto is a good second gun - after some experience.

 

[joneb]

Thanks for the input.
I will take her out shooting and see how she does with a H&R 929 2.5", Bersa 380 and a Ruger Sec. Six with 38 spl. and a XDS in 9mm 3.3".
My initial thought was here, http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/specSheets/5774.html in a 3". The 327 Fed is a thought but I would be concerned with ammo cost of cartridges that can be fired in it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Taking her out to shoot is a great. Might I suggest starting with a .22LR just to build confidence and to learn how to aim without recoil and blast getting in the way.

 

[joneb]

Might I suggest starting with a .22LR

That's my plan for getting her used to the DA pull, I'm just worried she will prefer the 22lr over anything else.

 

[AnselHazen]

JoneB, let me add real "in the field" data. For Valentines day I took the wife to a range that has a used gun case you can select 3 guns to try. First chosen was a Sig Mosquito in 9mm. The thinking was smaller, a lady's gun right? Nope. Couldn't hit the paper with it and after a few frustrating magazines it was returned and what came back with her was a Springfield something. It was a little bigger than the mosquito. But it too proved frustrating. I would shoot while she was back at the case choosing and looking at my targets now she wants to try my full size Steyr. An L9-A1. She hits the paper with it and proclaims it much easier to handle. Less felt recoil. I agree and am surprised it has taken such a short while to learn this important lesson. In less than an hour she has discovered that the increased weapon mass helps her shoot more accurately.
Off she goes, and comes back with a Glock 17.

And she shoots it well.

 

[entropy]

JoneB, let me add real "in the field" data. For Valentines day I took the wife to a range that has a used gun case you can select 3 guns to try. First chosen was a Sig Mosquito in 9mm. The thinking was smaller, a lady's gun right? Nope. Couldn't hit the paper with it and after a few frustrating magazines it was returned and what came back with her was a Springfield something. It was a little bigger than the mosquito. But it too proved frustrating. I would shoot while she was back at the case choosing and looking at my targets now she wants to try my full size Steyr. An L9-A1. She hits the paper with it and proclaims it much easier to handle. Less felt recoil. I agree and am surprised it has taken such a short while to learn this important lesson. In less than an hour she has discovered that the increased weapon mass helps her shoot more accurately.
Off she goes, and comes back with a Glock 17.

And she shoots it well.

Who doesn't?

For an arthritic shooter, I recommend a revolver, at least to start with. The SP101 in .327 would be an ideal choice; enough mass to tame recoil, it fires 4 different cartridges in successively more powerful levels. (.32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Mag., .327 Fed. Mag.) Either S&W round fired from an SP101 feels like a .22, The H&R a light .38 Wadcutter, and the .327 a .38 carry round (Not +P). A 4" SP101 in .327 Fed. Mag. would be useable as a range gun, HD and CCW gun.

 

[MedWheeler]

I'm just worried she will prefer the 22lr over anything else.

That's far from the worst that could happen. My wife was oriented on a Bersa Thunder 380, a HRR in .22LR, a Charter Arms Undercover 38, a Phoenix HP22A, and a Taurus PT-22. Also along were a Ruger P95 and a Ruger Service Six (to have been loaded with .38 Special ammo only.)

She hated the weight of the HRR revolver, and the snap/recoil of the Charter Arms and the Bersa. She only took one shot from the former and two from the latter (I had her experience both trigger actions.)

The PT22 was the gun she kept coming back to. I'm glad she at least chose one. Though she does not carry, that is the gun that gets left out for her when I'm not home.

 

[joneb]

In less than an hour she has discovered that the increased weapon mass helps her shoot more accurately.

Our friend did mention getting a carry permit, so I'm thinking not to big or heavy.
She does not have a lot of cash to spare, if she did I would recommend a 22 lr in either revolver or semi-auto and a like gun in 9mm or 38 spl. I think 380 acp might be a good choice but it runs about $5 more per 50 rnds. not sure if this would be a shooting deterrent.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

That's my plan for getting her used to the DA pull, I'm just worried she will prefer the 22lr over anything else.

You know the saying, the .22 she has with her is better than than the .380 or 9mms she leaves home.

If in the end she wants to carry a .22 have her practice dumping the whole mag or cylinder in the bad guys face. That will work!

 

[rswartsell]

Snub nose revolvers (1", 2") are truly "expert" weapons. Less than that use with the idea that they are "point blank" weapons.

The trouble is that the "point blank" idea may or may not suite the circumstances. Their advantage is concealabiity and no matter how you want to cut it 3" isn't much better.

I believe in starting out right,.22 rifle (and hopefully handgun). .38 spl. Smith Mod. 10 and the like. Adapt from there as needs (probably hi-cap 9mm.).

 

[Shaq]

That's my plan for getting her used to the DA pull, I'm just worried she will prefer the 22lr over anything else.

If she enjoys shooting, she will probably get bored with the lack of recoil & power of a 22 & will want something more challenging.

 

[JohnBiltz]

The range I shoot has a ladies night with free rentals. The Glock 42 proved so popular they ended up with 3 of them just to keep up. Its a soft shooter and pretty accurate.

 

[cc-hangfire]

In the process of taking a handful of my wife's friends shooting for the first time, I observe that the 40-something & 50-something women I've worked with have a few common traits and preferences:
1. Smaller hand size (I know, ...duh!)
2. Limited hand and arm strength (again, duh!)
3. Preference for single action (& again, who doesn't?)
(One thing you'll notice not listed is recoil sensitivity.)

While these aren't world rocking observations, the extent of their impact on handgun selection is significant, especially since these women aren't likely to become avid shooters and practice a lot.

Revolver DA triggers were too stiff and just did not work for these ladies. Full size semi-autos with either DA/SA or SAO or striker-fired suited them best - slides could be racked easily & two handed grips worked. Either frame mounted manual safeties (ie: 1911 style) or no manual safety (ie Glock style) worked best, but there were no big issues with slide mounted safeties (ie Beretta 92). Some of the handguns had grips too large - depends on hand size - and the CZ75 seemed to be a favorite due to grip ergonomics. The full size semis would be fine for home use for all the ladies I worked with.

When moving to carry options, picking the right gun will get harder since smaller size generally means a smaller lighter slide with a stiffer spring (harder to grip & rack the slide). The group I worked with weren't looking for carry guns, so I can't give any insight for that.

What I learned is just about the opposite of the typical advice, although - based on prior posts - I'm not the only one who has discovered it. Hope this is helpful.

 

[CaptTripps]

My girlfriend loves shooting my Ruger MKII .22. Its only a plain jane field model but its accurate and soft shooting, while not being too loud.

 

[MedWheeler]

entropy writes:

The SP101 in .327 would be an ideal choice; enough mass to tame recoil, it fires 4 different cartridges in successively more powerful levels. (.32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Mag., .327 Fed. Mag.)

Actually, you can toss the .32ACP in that mix, too. Just tossing that out there. Sometimes that's all they have at the store.

 

[Leanwolf]

This is all she needs.



Just kidding, just kidding!

I started my wife (who had never handled a firearm of any kind) on a S&W K22 6" bbl., .22, and my original model Browning Challenger, 4½" bbl. .22. After approximately 1,500 rounds, she went to a S&W Combat Masterpiece .38 Spec., with my handloaded wadcutters, probably 300, 400 rounds. Later full power .38 Special rounds, etc.

Now her carry piece is a S&W 36 3" Heavy Barrel and one spare speedloader. She is very efficient with it. She practices "situationnal awareness." Self defense is her goal, not getting into shootouts with terrorists, or 10 gangbangers.

Practice is essential and a woman should select the firearm that suits her. As the old saying goes, "In a self defense situation if a person knows how to use it, a .22 surely beats praying."

Just my opinion.

L.W.