Firearms: Selecting and Training for Children

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bobby68

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Have you, or can you point me to, any information about selecting long guns for children. And/or preparing children for learning firearms safety and then shooting. I've heard of the NRA eddie eagle, but not sure what the is.

My wife is a nuclear security officer, needs range time on her AR and Glock 23, and is talking about buying a cricket .22 for our soon to be 4 year old girl to include her. I'm content to go what ever route is best, but not sure if an air rifle or airsoft would be a better first choice for various reasons. I've also seen some of the AR's converted to .22 and painted pretty for little girls (Oleg Volk's photos), but not sure how big the child needs to be to start on this rifle. I would consider a small shotgun too if one were appropriate.

I'm remembering my own days with my older brother and friends with bb guns shooting at each other, broken house windows, car windows, and too many dead animals. My girl is smart and disciplined, but like most kids, is curious, sometimes stubborn when she thinks she knows better, and will try things she knows she's been told not to.

Thanks for any help you can give.
 
Some friends of mine occasionally invite a bunch of friends over (mostly people from their church) and have a big shoot. While I was at one of their shoots there was a guy there with his 4ish year old son trying to get him to shoot a NEF youth gun but it was way to long for the young kid. It looked pretty unsafe to me. I also watched my right year old cousin get mad once and shove the barrel of his Rossi 17 into the mud because he couldn't hit what he was aiming at. Not saying that your going to have that problem but its just something to think about. I would go with either an airsoft or bb gun. Just my personal opinion.
 
I am a shoot boss with Project Applesed, and I have had a lot of young kids on the line. The subject comes up on the Appleseed forum sometimes, too. One of the most popular setups is a Ruger 10/22 or Marlin 795 with a cut-down stock. Stocks are cheap for these rifles, so it isn't a big deal to cut one up and put a butt-pad on it. Keep the part you cut off, so you can add sections back on as she grows! Some folks really believe in starting them off with iron sights (I am partial to that view as well)... if you do this, it would be best to get a set of Tech Sights. They make them for both the Marlin and the Ruger. The factory sights on those rifles are horrible and make learning that much harder.

A cricket is a good rifle with really good sights, but it is just a single-shot... you can't really teach them about proper semi-auto trigger control on one of those.
 
I have to start with saying that the cricket .22 is probably the best rifle on the market to teach children marksmanship and gun safety. Many people don't like these saying that they look to "toy like." I bought one of these for my nephew, he loves it and has become quite a little hunter with it. The thing I like most about it is that when a user rotates the bolt handle down (with a round chambered) the rifle won't fire until the user pulls the bolt back into a locked position. With that said, I also will mention that the cricket rifle doesn't have a safety, I like this specifically because when you tell your child to keep their finger off the trigger until their ready to shoot.
I can't say enough good things about these rifles. I actually ordered an adult sized stock and will be buying another one soon since Adam likes when I take him to the range. These rifles are a blast to shoot, I guarantee your child will like shooting this little rifle for years to come.
 
I have to start with saying that the cricket .22 is probably the best rifle on the market to teach children marksmanship and gun safety.
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I understand KR's reasons here, but I disagree with them. I looked at the Cricket rifles for a long time before deciding I couldn't buy one as a first gun for my kids.

The Henry Micro Bolts, Savage Cubs and one or two other of the tiniest .22 single shots are all better rifles than the Crickets. (As are the CZ, Marlin, and other somewhat larger "youth"-sized .22s.)

We ended up going with a Savage Cub-T which has a fabulous trigger, real safety, is easier to load (has a feed ramp rather than the frustrating breech face arrangement on the Cricket), and cocks as you operate the bolt handle like a "real" rifle.

I don't like having to teach extraneous steps and to deal with frustrated ammo fumbling. I want to stick to the basics, and basics which translate to a larger rifle later on.

And, of course, there is a certain level of heirloom quality about the Savage that the Cricket doesn't have.

All offered as my opinion and intended merely as a polite counterpoint.
 
Thanks for all the responses. more options than I realized.

I was also concerned about LOP and trigger weight. Especially for such small hands. Anyone know about the starting ages for kids with AR conversions, or other full sized rifles?
 
I've got a 5 year old boy. I got him the rossi .22&.410 youth combo. I put a cheap $50 holographic sight on the .22. He had never even shot a bb gun before and after I sighted it in starting with the first shot he was hitting everything I put in front of him. He likes to shoot things like cans, jugs, blown up balloons more than paper. Although he was hitting the bulls eye when he was shooting at it. We shoot from around 25-30 yards right now. Those little sights are amazing for little guys to learn on. I've got him shooting standing up also. He holds the gun up by himself just fine also.
 
I vote for the "Cricket". I feel like I grew up being more attentive to shot placement having been initiated into shooting with a single-shot. Others I ran with would blaze through a box of ammo. It made me think more before taking the shot. I think kids first guns being auto-loaders encourages "If you can't shoot well, shoot often" type of thinking.

In biology, it is said; "An organism, in it's ontogeny, recapitulates it phylogeny". Which is to say, the evolutionary sequence is replicated in the growth of the individual. So I further advocate that young shooters be schooled in the evolution of firearms, from more primitive, to more complex. A patched roundball .32 muzzleloader might even be a better first gun.
 
My son just started with his CZ 452 Scout, and loves it...see?

Rickyontarget2.jpg

Rickyhappy.jpg

The 452 Scout has an option, use the supplied single shot block adapter, or get the optional 10 round magazines. He has the single shot right now, and loves it.
 
Ruger 10/22?
My daughter turns 4 this year and is dead set on going shooting with dad. I too will be in the market for a 22 for her this year. I will check out the Savage Cub.
Thanks for the info.
As for training and safety, it starts at home and revolves around me and my decision on training and when she is ready.
 
I chair Calcasieu Area Council's Scout Shooting Sports Program and I also train NRA Instructors in every discipline. I like adjustable stocks and peep sights on guns for kids. Peep sights virtually require getting a proper cheek weld, which is a habit we want to develop from the beginning. An adjustable stock allows the rifle to grow with a child, instead of the kid having to transition from a child length stock directly into an adult length stock at some point down the road, plus they stick with the same gun, maintaining continuity of handling characteristics.

Ruger now makes the 10/22 with an adjustable stock called tha SR-22. That, or something similar, would be just the ticket.
 
I started my children shooting when they were that age too. They had trouble holding up the barrel of any gun that I could find until I found a Hamilton Boys model 27 rifle at show. These date from the 1920s were cheaply made and were frequently given to boys for selling seed and other items. These were designed for .22 long cartridges, not .22 LR. They use a very simple break open action and are single shot. The stock is usually made of a thin flat board and the barrel is a piece of steel wrapped around a brass liner and is only about 14 inches long! The good part is that only weigh about 2 1/2 pounds! They're also classified as C&R so the short barrel is now legal. I relined the barrel in mine, rechambered them for .22lr and cleaned them up and them made great little training rifles that the kids could easily handle. They worked so well that I eventually ended up with three of them!
p1100381.jpg
 
Nothing wrong with starting them off on BB guns at first to teach sight picture and safe handling.
Actual firearms? How about instead of a single shot, start them off with a magazine-fed bolt action in a youth size, and simply hand them one round at a time?
I'm fairly new to owning firearms (read voraciously about them since about the age of six or so), but I made some very strategic choices with my first buys.
I bought two .22 rifles from the same dealer on the same day - a "youth model" savage bolty, and the shortest Ruger 10/22 with a wood stock I could get.
I'm not an especially large fellow, so they are still comfortable for me to handle, but easily the right size for kids (whether my own hypothetical in the future kids, or the kids of a woman with whom I am friends).
 
BB Gun is an excellent pre-requisite for Long Arms, even as a Bicycle is for Motorcycle.


Everything depends also on the innate character, disposition and intelligence of the Child, as well as the effects or spoiling which adults haver already managed, for whatever guidence and supervision is provided to fit well and or be benificient.


Every Child is an individual, and, requires the deferense and sensitivity from Adults, which will answer their uniqueness constructively.


My own first firearms experience, was, being Handed a loaded M1917 S&W Revolver, loaded with WWII Surplus Gardball, and, my Dad nodded to the Target, a Tin Can he'd tossed out there.

I had seen him shooting it, and, he had shown me the basic operations and safety practices before hand.


I did just fine with it, and, was a good shot right from the get go.

I was Eight, slender, pale, dreamy, small for my age, and, a Book-Worm.


I did not own or shoot a BB Gun till I was ten.

Lol...


I loved that M1917 S&W, and, of course, no one wore Ear Protection in those days, but, people shot one Handed and held the Revolver "out" at Arm's Length to Shoot.

Recoil never bothered me one bit, and, neither did the Report.


I think my Ears did 'ring' a little, or, more than a little...which I did not care about, anyway.


Kids, when treated with authentic respect, and, supervised gently by perceptive and intelligent Adults, can and will surprise you with their 'Maturity' and what they can handle well.


Traditionally however, as I think we all know, the usual recourse, has been to introduce a Child to Shooting, by using a Single Shot .22 Rifle.


And, to work 'up' from there as appropriate for the Child's comfort and interest combined.


To my mind, and, I will guess, to my Dad's mind, years ago...somewhere around "8" is usually a pretty good choice for when.


Earlier might be just fine too, depending.
 
I started both my boys on the Marlin Lil Buckaroo, aka the 15YN- it is a single shot bolt action scaled for small kids. I recently started my grandson on the same gun - it is accurate, easy to hold for young kids, and being a single sot bolt gun, easy for you to keep control over the situation
 
I was just having this exact conversation with my brother the other day. We were talking about airsoft as a good starting point for my soon-to-be three year old. I'm not really that knowledgeable on airsoft, but it seems like a reasonable place to start. The only problem with airsoft is that I have been finding it hard to find a simple rifle in airsoft. My son is eager to learn, he keeps saying to me, "you're gonna teach me the rifle, right?" so I want to find something that he can start with sooner rather than later and I feel like a .22 might be a little much. The first actual firearm I ever fired was a Parker 16ga., but I was also 7 at the time.

Just my thoughts.
 
WayBeau,

While I am one of the biggest proponents of starting kids early, I wouldn't stress over much beyond very basic safety training with a three year old.

My kids wanted to do what I was doing when they were that young, and I made it happen for them, but that consisted of sitting them in my lap and letting them pull the triggers of guns I was holding. And they were thrilled to do that a few times and then go chase butterflies or whatever. It was several more years before they could even comprehend, let alone accomplish, the basics of stance, grip, sight picture, etc.

That's not to say Airsoft isn't an ok place to start (though, like you, I have no interest in handing them an overly tacticool MP-5 replica or something to try and learn fundamentals with) but that at 3 years old, it can hardly be more than a toy to them.

IMHO, by the time they're mature enough to be able to process the basics of the skills you're trying to teach them, a Savage Cub or Henry Micro-Bolt .22 single shot isn't going to be "too much" for them.
 
I would not start a child off with an airsoft gun. I personally started off with a 20 ga single-shot youth shotgun....also not recommended. Get your daughter a nice little .22 LR to start with, it seems that both you and your wife are comfortable around firearms and can be great influences and teachers to her.

An AR in .22 would be a little much IMO, and I would stick with a bolt action .22 LR. CZ makes a fine bolt .22, I just would not recommend a single-shot bolt (like the Cricket).
 
My son started off with Cooper's four rules at age three. At age six he had them down. So he and I went out to the local gun stores together and tried every youth rifle we could find.

We tried the Crickett. Didn't care for it, for all the same reasons Sam1911 mentions. The 10/22 in any size was too heavy and the LOP was too long for him, and he's very big for his age. No one had a CZ452 scout, which was unfortunate, as I'm very fond of the 452/453.

We settled on a plain jane Savage Cub, which fits him quite well. The single shot bolt action instills good discipline, not only in safety, but in all the fundamentals. I put a cheap red dot on it. We haven't started with the peep sight yet, as he's cross eye dominant and I'm having trouble getting his cheek weld together. I'm guessing that as his fine motor skills improve this will solve itself, but we work on it each shooting session.

The other nice thing about the cub is that is essentially the same action as the Savage MKII. I've got a MKII JTV he'll eventually grow into, which is a sub-MOA rifle with a fantastic trigger. The cub has the same trigger, though marginally heavier from the factory.

He's happy with the cub, but every time we shoot he asks if he can shoot the Glenfield 75, as well. It doesn't fit him, but he likes the 3-9x glass on it and the fact that he doesn't have to cycle the action and can keep his stance and cheek weld between shots.

After three years of drilling safety with him, I'm fine with him and a semi-automatic, but I prefer the single shot for stressing shooting fundamentals.

Incidentally, I found this chart for helping select a stock to fit smaller arms:
length_of_pull.jpg
 
My 5 year old daughter loves shooting balloons with her cricket. I like the fact that it has peep sights, she can always use an optic later in life but irons are fundamental. The single shot is nice for me from a control standpoint since she can work the bolt but I can cock it for her once I am satisfied that she is ready. Once she has mastered the single shot she can move on to a magazine fed bolt action and then a semi.
 
txhoghunter said:
I would not start a child off with an airsoft gun. I personally started off with a 20 ga single-shot youth shotgun....also not recommended. Get your daughter a nice little .22 LR to start with, it seems that both you and your wife are comfortable around firearms and can be great influences and teachers to her.

An AR in .22 would be a little much IMO, and I would stick with a bolt action .22 LR. CZ makes a fine bolt .22, I just would not recommend a single-shot bolt (like the Cricket).
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I agree with the no airsoft sentiment.

My Dad and I were having this discussion and he was telling me about when he was a kid. He got his first .22 when he was 10, just like his brothers, but he got a Ruger 10/22 instead of a bolt-action like his brothers.

He says he wished he would have gotten the bolt action, because "it would have taught him better trigger discipline."

When people say airsoft, I just think of a teenage kid running around with the airsoft gun flipped to Rock and Roll spraying everything they see, and proclaiming their knowledge of firearms safety from it.

My kids are getting a bolt .22LR, unless I have to get them a semi-auto. :)
 
When people say airsoft, I just think of a teenage kid running around with the airsoft gun flipped to Rock and Roll spraying everything they see, and proclaiming their knowledge of firearms safety from it.
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This is my point exactly. I know that parents can teach safety, but starting a child off with a gun that people routinely shoot at each other is just not something that I see as a good idea. I say start any new shooter off with good safety techniques and the capabilities of a firearm (the good and the bad).
 
Lemmy,

We haven't started with the peep sight yet, as he's cross eye dominant and I'm having trouble getting his cheek weld together. I'm guessing that as his fine motor skills improve this will solve itself, but we work on it each shooting session.
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Have you tried encouraging him to shoulder the weapon on his dominant-eye side?

A lot of shooters find it MUCH easier to meet with success teaching themselves to operate a rifle or shotgun as a lefty (if normally right-handed) than trying to fight their dominant eye. Not so much of a problem with slow, bench-rest type shooting, but when he starts wingshooting or more rapid engagement drills with a rifle (snap shots in hunting, too) he'll be faster and more accurate if he's trained to bring the gun to his naturally dominant eye.

As a new shooter, he doesn't have as much "unlearning" to do to correct his habits, and he'll probably find shooting a lot less frustrating if he works with his body rather than against it.

Handguns are easy as you can shoot strong-hand with the cross-dominant eye, but long guns should be run on the dominant-eye side.

Good luck!
 
Have you tried encouraging him to shoulder the weapon on his dominant-eye side?
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That's where we started. I tested him for eye dominance before we even began shooting. Mrs. Caution is lefty and lefty eye dominant, but was taught to shoot right handed. We're having a devil of a time undoing that now that she's in her mid-30s. I'm lefty and right eye dominant, and was taught to shoot right handed. The boy, it turns out, is right handed and left eye dominant. We're teaching him to shoot left handed.

I tried letting him shoot right handed once. He laid his head nearly sideways over the stock to get his left eye lined up with the sights. It was pretty funny looking. We went back to left handed before he even took a shot.

The problem is that he's learned right handed shooting stance from playing nerf guns with his cousins. He's just awkward shooting lefty at the moment, but with practice, we'll get it together.
 
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