Firearm Safety for children

[Thedub88]

My wife comes from a anti gun family (mothers side). Her sisters husband has guns and so do I. The 2 sisters both have 4 year olds, and no one in the family knows we have guns. Ive been harping on teaching the kids firearm safety for a while, but my wife said "not know, but I will let you know when I'm comfortable". (she is familiar with firearms and shoots with me sometimes)

Well, last night about 1/2 hour after putting my stepson to bed, He yells "guess what mom? Uncle Kieth is buying me a gun for xmas, but don't worry I wont shoot myself, just the bad guys". My wife looks at me square in the eyes and said "I'm ready" I knew exactly what she ment.

I already plan to show him the eddie eagle video, and I found another one that a child is the teacher. That one is good for later on because it has advanced skills like having a safe, proper grip ect. We don't plan on having them handle any firearms anytime soon, so the advanced one wont work.

Does anyone know of a video thats a follow up to eddie eagle, but not as advanced to going in handleling a firearm.


As said before my wifes family is anti gun, so letting him know I cc is out of the question. He'll tell my mother in law and then we are in a world of <deleted>. She's crazy and would do anything to get custody





we come from mass so all guns and ammo have to be locked up per MGL

 

[Sam1911]

I don't know of a video, but I will offer a little advice based on how we've handled gun safety with our 4 kids.

Demystify EVERYTHING. Make him know that you will make time whenever he's interested to show, tell, answer, explain, and get him hands-on time with any gun or aspect of shooting you have. Take out the curiosity and all secrecy so he has no reason to ever do any sneaking around behind your back (now or 10 years from now!).

Make your guns, shooting, CCW, etc. common everyday subjects -- no more mysterious, dangerous, exciting, hidden than the lawn mower or chainsaw -- and you won't have to worry that he's trying to investigate your "secrets" when you can't keep your eye on him.

Another benefit of on-demand supervised access, is you have frequent opportunities to repeat the safety rules every time a gun comes out of the safe or goes to the range with you.

And take him shooting! Introduce him right, in ways that are safe and not intimidating, and you'll have a range buddy for life!

 

[303tom]

Can`t say I know anything about (Eddie Eagle Video) but I do know nothing beats, Education, Education, Education & Instruction, Instruction, Instruction.........

 

[mortablunt]

I don't know of any Eddie Eagle followups, but I can definitely say that the other on this thread have very good points. One of the things I'd like to add is to inform them honestly about the consequences of murder, and impress upon them that their gun is not intended to be a weapon. Get across the idea that it is the job of the adults to protect them.

 

[J-Bar]

Buy a plastic water gun. Use it to train them in muzzle control, how to pick up a firearm safely, muzzle control, how to keep their finger off the trigger until ready to fire, muzzle control, how to carry the gun from one place to another, and muzzle control. Go through it a couple of minutes a day. Make muzzle control something they think about full time.

Did I mention the importance of teaching muzzle control?

 

[DAP90]

Has anyone had any success using a toy gun as a teaching tool?

I bought my son (age 4) a toy shotgun that came with some fake shells. I had intended to use it as a learning tool for safety. The problem is he knows it’s not a real gun. His cousin has a similar one that has been treated as a toy and he has other toy guns that he plays with so he’s getting mixed messages.

I’m considering buying a single shot BB gun just because they look, handle and have the features of a real gun.

 

[Loosedhorse]

Best thing for kids is modeling the behavior you expect.

Take the guns out and show them to the kids, handle the guns safely, let the kids handle them safely. Let them know they can handle the guns any time (within reason) they want by asking you--at which time (or as soon as you can) you will take the gun out for them and demonstrate again. Always supervised--that's one of the safety rules.

This gives them "full access" to the guns (all they have to do is ask), and helps with the forbidden/mystery attractiveness that Sam mentioned.

Then take them out shooting. Emphasize protection and safety. Someone "goofs up" (lets the muzzle cover something it shouldn't) first time, they are done for the day. Let them know that safety matters.

A short while ago my 10 year old and I heard a story of someone accidently shot because "they thought the gun was unloaded." My son was puzzled, "How is that even possible? The first thing you do is check to see if it's loaded. And even if it isn't, you don't point it at anyone."

 

[Sam1911]

As said before my wifes family is anti gun, so letting him know I cc is out of the question. He'll tell my mother in law and then we are in a world of <deleted>. She's crazy and would do anything to get custody

I wouldn't spend too much worry over this. Owning firearms is not illegal, nor does it, prima fasce, present any danger to your children. CCW is not a risk, either.

The state (commonwealth, actually) isn't going to take a child out of a stable, safe, two-parent house-hold and give the child to a grandparent, just because you do something you are licensed by the state to do!

Her fears, no matter how inordinate, do not equate to proof (or even reasonable suspicion) of any danger to the child. Don't let the threat of what you think she might say or try to do make you live in fear.

 

[JERRY]

your house, your kids, your rules, if youre a man.

 

[Thedub88]

your house - not my house, we rent
your kids - not mine. he's my wifes
your rules - not my rules cuz its not my kid, house or my family I have to deal with

 

[Shadow 7D]

Well
with that attitude (either yours or your wife's???)
you are screwed
either you take responsibility or you specifically declaim it, remove your guns and you should probably follow, either, in a long term relationship, you wife lets you parent, or you will NEVER be able to have any authority with the child. Sad but true, not what a family is built on.

 

[Loosedhorse]

we come from mass so all guns and ammo have to be locked up per MGL

Tricky statute. It reads:

For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

So, unless it is "under your control" it is apparently considered "stored", and must be locked.

Case law has determined that, if the gun is locked in a case, then that case need not be stored in a secured location (Commonwealth v. Brandon Lojko); and that a gun is "under the control of" a person "when that person has it sufficiently nearby to prevent immediately its unauthorized use." (Commonwealth v. Eustace Patterson).

The safe storage law was briefly ruled unconstitutional here (Commonwealth v. Richard Bolduc) by a trial judge after Heller. The SJC reversed that with Patterson, claiming both that Heller didn't apply to the states, and that the MA statute is different enough from the DC statute that Heller wouldn't invalidate the law even if it did apply (which, of course, it now does). We'll see, but I prefer the trial judge's reasoning about the harms of the current storage laws:

People can be subject to prosecution whether they are home or not. The term "under the control of the owner" is a question of fact and subject to interpretation. Any ambiguity in the statute as applied to a person lawfully keeping a firearm in the home must be resolved in favor of the holder of the right.

 

[ErikO]

Best thing for kids is modeling the behavior you expect.

Take the guns out and show them to the kids, handle the guns safely, let the kids handle them safely. Let them know they can handle the guns any time (within reason) they want by asking you--at which time (or as soon as you can) you will take the gun out for them and demonstrate again. Always supervised--that's one of the safety rules.

This gives them "full access" to the guns (all they have to do is ask), and helps with the forbidden/mystery attractiveness that Sam mentioned.

Then take them out shooting. Emphasize protection and safety. Someone "goofs up" (lets the muzzle cover something it shouldn't) first time, they are done for the day. Let them know that safety matters.

A short while ago my 10 year old and I heard a story of someone accidently shot because "they thought the gun was unloaded." My son was puzzled, "How is that even possible? The first thing you do is check to see if it's loaded. And even if it isn't, you don't point it at anyone."

+1.

My 10 year old goes with us to the indoor range we shoot at, sees lots of guns and I let him handle the unloaded new guns that I ask to 'see' from the sale rack. He's gone through Eddie Eagle and has really taken to it.

We've used his Nerf guns to teach him about trigger control, barrel control and general safety. I had fun, left a round in the chamber and ejected the mag. I then tried to hand it to him and he said "No, it's still loaded, clear it before you give it to me."

I am a proud dad and make sure he knows it.

 

[hermannr]

(BTW: no antis involved here) I have a 4 year old granddaughter, and a 6 year grandson (we actually have 13 grandchildren, but I want to talk about these two). I have been talking to their mom (our youngest daughter) about starting these two with firearms safety, and she has been reluctant. One, because especially the girl, is so young, and two, because the boy is a very rambuncious kid. Keeping his attention on safety would be difficult, all he would want to do is bang bang and wave the gun around in the air like it was a stick.

So anyway...what happened is this young boy was at a friends house and the two boys found the other boys dad's carry (don't remember the reason it was out, but it was a reasonable reason, not negligence on the part of the dad. (At least not in my daughter's view.) Anyway, they were playing with this gun...gun did not go off, no-one was hurt, I don't even know if it was loaded...but neither boy had ever handled a real gun before and they were "exploring" the opportunity. (BTW: IMHO the smarter the kid, the more likely to investigate the unknown)

I relate this story because I am a firm believer in "de-mystifying" firearms. Let them handle your gun(s). Show them how they work, and if you can do it safely, let them shoot a water ballon or two, or a mellon. something that will show them how distructive pulling that trigger is. Teach them safety first, even before they have the strength to pull the trigger, but let them handle the real thing...no toys.

If you want to let them play with air-soft, that is up to you, but when they are young, really young, use a a real gun...you do not want them to think real guns are toys....Please...anyway, it looks like I now get to teach these two next time they come to visit too...

Edited to add: I have a couple High Standard Trophys with very light (and adjustable) triggers. I like to start my grandkids with these. One of the reasons is the light trigger pull helps them realize that you do not put your finger in the trigger guard until you are really ready to pull the trigger. It also emphasizes why the barrel needs to always be pointed down range. They will get an early discharge if they are not paying attention. "I wasn't ready Grandpa" gets a "and why was that?" response. Make them think and explain to you, why what happened, happened, and how to keep it from happening in the future. Works for me anyway.

 

[hso]

Who taught you and how? Were you safe around firearms as a child? Why?

Videos are part of training, not a substitute. If no middle ground exists then work with your brother in law to teach the kids together. The two of you demonstrate what the best approach is and remove all the mystery for the kids.

The good thing bout this approach is that your mutual mother-in-law can't effectively attack one or the other of you. She has to attack both families and that means she won't be as disruptive.

 

[rdsmith3]

your house - not my house, we rent
your kids - not mine. he's my wifes
your rules - not my rules cuz its not my kid, house or my family I have to deal with

I am a step-parent, so I know it is a complicated situation. I am assuming your wife has custody of this child? When he is in your house (regardless of whether you rent it) and your (plural) custody, you and your wife need to be aligned on how to raise him. You two will have to make many decisions on how to raise him, not just about guns -- what TV shows is he allowed to watch; how much TV in a day; where will he go to school; which friends are OK and which are questionable; when will he get a cell phone; and so on, and so on. More importantly, you and your wife are teaching him values, and trying your best to have him grow into a man of integrity. So, even though you are the step father, not the biological father, you cannot just abdicate your parental responsibilities. You are the father figure whenever he is in your house.

FWIW, my wife and I are having a similar dialog right now. I just got my first gun for home defense (Remington 870). We have a very bright and inquisitive 5 year old (he is the "our" child of yours, mine, and ours). My wife only reluctantly went along with my decision to get a gun. Now she thinks I should hide it from our youngest, but I think I should educate him about it.

 

[mortablunt]

Has anyone had any success using a toy gun as a teaching tool?

I've tried, but with no success. Nobody seems to properly grasp the seriousness of what is being taught until they are holding a readied weapon. It's even a pain to get other gun people to be serious with airsofts.

 

[Telekinesis]

Demystify EVERYTHING. Make him know that you will make time whenever he's interested to show, tell, answer, explain, and get him hands-on time with any gun or aspect of shooting you have. Take out the curiosity and all secrecy so he has no reason to ever do any sneaking around behind your back (now or 10 years from now!).

Make your guns, shooting, CCW, etc. common everyday subjects -- no more mysterious, dangerous, exciting, hidden than the lawn mower or chainsaw -- and you won't have to worry that he's trying to investigate your "secrets" when you can't keep your eye on him.

I just want to say that Sam is absolutely right. My point of view is going to be different than a lot of the guys here because I'm a lot closer to being that little kid than most of you are. (re: I'm a college student who doesn't have kids)

When I was a kid, guns were pretty much verboten. The only guns I saw of my parent's were 2 hunting shotguns (one of which was "mine" when I was old enough to shoot it and go hunting with my father). My parents didn't even talk about the other 10+ guns we had. It eventually got to the point when I was about 15 or so and my dad wanted me to make a list of all our guns and SNs so we'd know exactly what we had. I remember coming over to him and asking several times "when did we get a Sig? and all these rifles?"

And let me reiterate:

Demystify EVERYTHING ... so he has no reason to ever do any sneaking around behind your back (now or 10 years from now!).

Like Sam said, guns quickly became "mystified" and I started learning about anything and everything to do with guns (which is how I got on this forum to begin with). The real problem is that secrecy seems to manifest itself again when it comes to my parents and guns even now, just in the opposite direction. My parents have no idea that I have 4 guns and have bought and sold probably 6 others, and that I have 3 CCW permits and carry most places I can. And I can't really tell them about it because its so engrained that we don't talk about any guns except shotguns in my family as everything else is "evil", even the nice little HK my mom keeps for HD :banghead:

 

[FROGO207]

Growing up on the farm 50+ years ago there was always a loaded 12 GA shotty leaned up against the front door frame. We were told in no circumstance were we to touch it until we were old enough to be allowed to. I was one of 17 grandchildren there over the years and guess what-----none of us ever had any problems with any firearm there. I was shooting a 30 M1 carbine with my grandfathers help when I was 4 years old and knew even then if I ever made a mistake with a firearm then NO MORE GUNS--------end of story. To us they were a tool just like a shovel or axe, to be used with care by those that were allowed and only by those allowed. It worked for our extended family.

 

[RedAlert]

When I was 8 or 9 years old and living on an Army Post in Okinawa, my Dad bought me a bolt action .22LR rifle.
Came as a complete shock to me. He sat down with me and offered me a choice. I could keep it as a shooting rifle that Dad would retain custody of OR, I could keep it as a toy in which case he would get it de-miled by the base armorer. I chose to keep it as a shooter and its still in Dad's guncase.
Fortunately, Dad frequently took me to the base range and let me shoot an M-1 carbine to my hearts content. No shortage of ammo in those days. Shot the .22 a lot too.
Fortunately, Dad always followed strict safety and to this day I do as well.
It was easier for me to make my choices as none of gun violence existed on TV (no TV on Okinawa then) and none in children's literature either. We were still wrapped up in cap pistols fighting off the pesky Indians of the day.

I applaud all who seek to introduce children to gun safety and if they are interested the shooting sports.

Maybe we would see fewer children caused gun accidents if they had received some training at an early age.

 

[Skribs]

I have a nephew that is way too young now (he's not even 2), but I am going to wrestle with this with my sister. She's not an anti, but she is definitely in the boat that she'd rather him not know I have guns than be properly safety trained on them. And, IIRC, she won't let a gun in her house for fear that he would find it and hurt himself.

It really boils down to the kid, though. I know when I was a little kid (probably 1st or 2nd grade), my friend had a BB gun. I didn't see the BB very well when he put it in, and wanted to know what it looked like, so I looked down the barrel to see if I could see it. He gave me a good talking to about that and i learned my lesson. On the other hand, I had a couple of friends in high school that were too lax in safety with my BB gun, and I had to revoke their privileges with it.