First attempt with W231 & Titegroup - 45ACP

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I have had a pound or two of the above powders for a few years and decided to try them in 45ACP. My "standard" powders are Power Pistol and Unique.
I loaded up ~750fps loads, based on Hornady's 11th edition
Titegroup: 4.5 grains
W231: 5.3 grains
Bullet: Hornady 230gr FMJ-RN
Brass: Mixed, loaded several times
Primers: Large Pistol some Win, some CCI (I have a lot of primed 45 ACP brass with different primers)
COAL: 1.250
Firearm: Kimber Custom II (5 inch barrel)

Silly me - I did not take my chronograph with me, wish I had. So I have no idea what fps I actually got.
They all (50 of each - total 100rounds) cycled perfectly and - big bonus for me, they ejected the spent cases in a nice close group. Made recovering the brass easy. Sometimes PowerPistol sends it across the pistol bay. I was shooting steel so I cannot attest to groups on paper - but ringing steel was easy.

Anyone have chrono'd fps for similar loads? Is the Hornady numbers in the ballpark? I am thinking I like these 2 powders.
 
When I first read the OP I was puzzled by his assumption that 5.3 grs. of WW231 would give 750 fps. I've never chrono'd my 230 FMJ loads but have loaded anywhere from 4.5 to 4.7 grs. and always thought they were in the mid-700 fps range.

I've never loaded Tightgroup so can't comment on that. According to Hodgdon on-line 5.3 grs. of 231 yields 832 fps.
 
Last edited:
Laphroaig said:
When I first read the OP I was puzzled by his assumption that 5.3 grs. of WW231 would give 750 fps. I've never chrono'd my 230 FMJ loads but have loaded anywhere from 4.5 to 4.7 grs. and always thought they were in the mid-700 fps range.

I've never loaded Tightgroup so can't comment on that. Did you flip the grs. shown between WW231 and Tightgroup? According to Hodgdon on-line 5.3 grs. of 231 yields 832 fps.
Click to expand...
I wondered if he started at 5.3 Grs. ;)

Based on back when I shot a lot of 200/225/230 Gr bullets in .45 ACP using W-231, he's likely in the low 800s, as the Hodgdon data suggests, and while it is a spot many people end up at, it isn't a good spot to start.
 
I lost most of my 45 Auto load data but I do have a few loads available. The only jacketed bullet data I have is a 230gr Remington FMJ bullet over 5.5gr W231 with a CCI-500 primer and an OAL of 1.265". I don't have chrono data for the loads I still have access to (only 6) but I do know that load is accurate in my 1911.

I know Hodgdon's data has a max charge of 5.3gr but that's with an OAL of only 1.200". Lyman's load data has a max charge of 5.8gr with an OAL of 1.275". My load is perfectly safe and within normal limits by of course check for yourself and you decide what is right for you. (I have no idea why Hodgdon uses such a short OAL but they do)

For many many years I have charged 5.5gr W231/HP-38 under any 230gr bullet cast or with a jacket. My OAL always ranges between 1.255" and 1.270" depending upon the bullet profile and the plunk test. I usually load the bullet as far out as long as I can and still plunk the round.

W231 is my goto powder for the 45 Auto and .38 Special although I know there are many powders that will do a good job. You know, if it ain't broken don't fix it lol.

If necessary you can use W231, W244, AutoComp, CFP Pistol, Clays, Universal, AA#2, AA#5, Silhouette, Zip, True Blue, IMR Red & Green, Bullseye, Unique, Sport Pistol, BE-86, Power Pistol, Red Dot & Green Dot, Promo, a few VV powders and some I probably didn't even think of right now! (sorry, got carried away lol)
 
Cheesemaker said:
I have had a pound or two of the above powders for a few years and decided to try them in 45ACP. My "standard" powders are Power Pistol and Unique.
I loaded up ~750fps loads, based on Hornady's 11th edition
Titegroup: 4.5 grains
W231: 5.3 grains
Bullet: Hornady 230gr FMJ-RN
Brass: Mixed, loaded several times
Primers: Large Pistol some Win, some CCI (I have a lot of primed 45 ACP brass with different primers)
COAL: 1.250
Firearm: Kimber Custom II (5 inch barrel)

Silly me - I did not take my chronograph with me, wish I had. So I have no idea what fps I actually got.
They all (50 of each - total 100rounds) cycled perfectly and - big bonus for me, they ejected the spent cases in a nice close group. Made recovering the brass easy. Sometimes PowerPistol sends it across the pistol bay. I was shooting steel so I cannot attest to groups on paper - but ringing steel was easy.

Anyone have chrono'd fps for similar loads? Is the Hornady numbers in the ballpark? I am thinking I like these 2 powders.
Click to expand...


TiteGroup - 4.6 gr (final load)
Winchester LPP
Acme 230 RN HiTek coated 1.26
784 fps - ES 5 - SD 2.3
4.0, 4.2, 4.4, 4.6 (test loads)
Mixed brass
S&W E-Series 5" barrel

Copper bullet might be a little slower than a HiTek, so Hornady's data is probably pretty close. If memory serves, there might have only been 40-50 fps difference from my lowest test load, to the highest which I settled on. Highest load gave best SD/ES and Ive found it to be more accurate than I am.
Ive found TiteGroup to give really decent accuracy, but it does burn a little dirty. Also makes for a nice recoil impulse. 231 will work, but will kick slightly harder due to being a little slower powder. Ive loaded PowerPistol in 45, but only for a 185 SWC.
I use CCI and Win primers pretty much interchangeably in 45, havent noticed any difference on the steel.
 
Laphroaig said:
When I first read the OP I was puzzled by his assumption that 5.3 grs. of WW231 would give 750 fps. I've never chrono'd my 230 FMJ loads but have loaded anywhere from 4.5 to 4.7 grs. and always thought they were in the mid-700 fps range.

I've never loaded Tightgroup so can't comment on that. According to Hodgdon on-line 5.3 grs. of 231 yields 832 fps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply - I got the 750 fps with 5.3gr W231 directly from the Hornady 11th edition for this exact bullet. They have 3 loads 5.0, 5.3 and 5.7 for 700fps, 750fps and 800fps respectively.
I cross-referenced this data with my Lyman manual (not the exact same bullet - a 230gr TMJ) and their starting load was 5.2gr. If the Lyman TMJ was a Speer bullet - the Speer manual lists 5.6gr to 6.3gr (iirc).
 
I like W231/HP-38 (even the fragrance when shooting, seriously) and shot 100 rounds just yesterday afternoon—230gr RN Berry’s and/or Extreme plated (I don’t distinguish), 5.0-5.1gr W231, ~1.250-1.260” OAL, Government model 1911.

Nice Goldilocks recoil & some muzzle flash.

Also yesterday I shot Bullseye. I’d be hard pressed to pick between the two so I don’t bother—same loads too. Along with BE-86, I shoot & buy them in about equal quantity. Mainly 45ACP but also 9mm.

But you asked about velocity and I haven’t a clue.
 
Cheesemaker said:
Anyone have chrono'd fps for similar loads? Is the Hornady numbers in the ballpark?
Click to expand...
I have data for a 230 Ranier RN, it’s a plated bullet. This was data out of a P220.
4.6gr TG, 1.230”, Vavg 717
5.0gr 231, 1.230”, Vavg 707
I also tested a 230 HAP,
5.0gr 231, 1.210”, Vavg 706

These were approaching or at major PF, you’d want a bit more if you were going to a match. If you just want target loads, they’d be fine.
 
From my 5” model 625

5.0grs of 231 ACME 230gr 1.20 OAL. 791FPS
5.5grs of 231 Berry’s HHP 1.20 OAL. 845FPS
 
Don't have anything for that 230 but

5" 1911, S+B LP, Mixed brass, charges as thrown after setting measure

String: 5
Date: 5/14/2017
Time: 2:34:54 PM
Grains: 230
Hi Vel: 757
Low Vel: 723
Ave Vel: 738
Ext Spread: 34
Std Dev: 12
Xtreme 230 RN HP38 5.0 1.233 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
741 170.43 280.392
757 174.11 292.632
735 169.05 275.87
736 169.28 276.621
723 166.29 266.935

String: 2
Date: 9/11/2016
Time: 9:25:57 AM
Grains: 230
Hi Vel: 762
Low Vel: 714
Ave Vel: 734
Ext Spread: 48
Std Dev: 16
45 RMR 230 FMJ 4.7 HP38 1.21
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
762 175.26 296.51
735 169.05 275.87
725 166.75 268.414
748 172.04 285.715
739 169.97 278.881
721 165.83 265.461
714 164.22 260.331

So if you are only after 750 fps 4.8 to 5gr of HP38 (W231) shoud get you there.
Hodgdon shows 5.3 as a MAX charge and I would think would be around 830-850.
Lyman shows 5.2 to start 5.8 MAX so higher than Hodgdons #s, Older Win data shows 4.9 to 5.7.

For Major PF with a 230 you need 720 FPS.

PS: IMO the S+B LPs are about 10-15 fps slower than CCI or WIN LPs.
 
Last edited:
Dudedog said:
Don't have anything for that 230 but

5" 1911, S+B LP, Mixed brass, charges as thrown after setting measure

String: 5
Date: 5/14/2017
Time: 2:34:54 PM
Grains: 230
Hi Vel: 757
Low Vel: 723
Ave Vel: 738
Ext Spread: 34
Std Dev: 12
Xtreme 230 RN HP38 5.0 1.233 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
741 170.43 280.392
757 174.11 292.632
735 169.05 275.87
736 169.28 276.621
723 166.29 266.935

String: 2
Date: 9/11/2016
Time: 9:25:57 AM
Grains: 230
Hi Vel: 762
Low Vel: 714
Ave Vel: 734
Ext Spread: 48
Std Dev: 16
45 RMR 230 FMJ 4.7 HP38 1.21
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
762 175.26 296.51
735 169.05 275.87
725 166.75 268.414
748 172.04 285.715
739 169.97 278.881
721 165.83 265.461
714 164.22 260.331

So if you are only after 750 fps 4.8 to 5gr of HP38 (W231) shoud get you there.
Hodgdon shows 5.3 as a MAX charge and I would think would be around 830-850.
Lyman shows 5.2 to start 5.8 MAX so higher than Hodgdons #s, Older Win data shows 4.9 to 5.7.

For Major PF with a 230 you need 720 FPS.

PS: IMO the S+B LPs are about 10-15 fps slower than CCI or WIN LPs.
Click to expand...
Those are some short OALs compared to mine (1.250+). What type of 1911?
 
Bought a 8 lb jug of it several years ago. Tried it in several calibers and worked ok but it makes the guns so much hotter than another other powder such as Bullseye or 231 that I haven’t used more than a 1/4 lb.
 
Cheesemaker said:
I have had a pound or two of the above powders for a few years and decided to try them in 45ACP. My "standard" powders are Power Pistol and Unique.
I loaded up ~750fps loads, based on Hornady's 11th edition
Titegroup: 4.5 grains
W231: 5.3 grains
Bullet: Hornady 230gr FMJ-RN
Brass: Mixed, loaded several times
Primers: Large Pistol some Win, some CCI (I have a lot of primed 45 ACP brass with different primers)
COAL: 1.250
Firearm: Kimber Custom II (5 inch barrel)

Silly me - I did not take my chronograph with me, wish I had. So I have no idea what fps I actually got.
They all (50 of each - total 100rounds) cycled perfectly and - big bonus for me, they ejected the spent cases in a nice close group. Made recovering the brass easy. Sometimes PowerPistol sends it across the pistol bay. I was shooting steel so I cannot attest to groups on paper - but ringing steel was easy.

Anyone have chrono'd fps for similar loads? Is the Hornady numbers in the ballpark? I am thinking I like these 2 powders.
Click to expand...
I don't normally chrono pistol but I have always used W-231 exclusively in .45 ACP loads and it performs beautifully in my SR1911. This pic is representative of the groups I get at 10 yards (the pasters are covering holes made with Federal 230g FMJ.

IMG_20220925_162312348.jpg
 
I really like 231 in my 45acp. I have a great load worked up in 185gr swc. 230gr fmj is a work in progress, although I do have a nice soft target round that I like.

chris
 
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Reeferman said:
Tried it in several calibers and worked ok but it makes the guns so much hotter than another other powder
Click to expand...

I tried it with 45 ACP and my Commander got really hot,really quick. I keep the remaining 1# container for emergency stash. HP-38/Unique/Bulls Eye are my trio of go to pistol powders. Before the world went barking mad,they were cheap and easy to purchase in my neck of the woods
 
Those are some short OALs compared to mine (1.250+). What type of 1911?
Click to expand...

Citadel 1911
The RMRs were the older 230 FMJ which had a short stubby nose and more body(less nose) than the average 230 FMJ
 
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