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First day of school....wow

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by wannabeagunsmith, Sep 4, 2013.

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  1. wannabeagunsmith

    wannabeagunsmith Member

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    Well....I really wasn't expecting this on the FIRST DAY of school (senior year here) BUT I walked into my CWA class and the first thing he does is use the NRA as an example of 'mob voters'. He was basically saying that they yell "THEY'RE COMIN FOR OUR GUNS!!" and the donations pour in and he of course said that there are NO bills that will outright ban guns and no one is coming for our guns. What a load of BS I wanted to tell him that gun control creeps and no bill that proposes a complete ban would pass. He then goes onto attacking a kid who is a known pro-gun advocate and asks him what seems like a simple question: "should a guy who got out of jail two days ago be able to go on down to the pawn shop and buy an automatic rifle?". Of course he says no. Then the teacher yells, "YOU'RE A COMMUNIST!! THE NRA WOULD SAY YOU ARE A COMMUNIST!!". That is of course a lie the NRA is all for enforcing our existing laws. I should know, I am a member. Never did he give a chance for anyone to raise their hand and chime in and I bet if anyone did he would just cut them down and use them as an example. Tomorrow I am dropping that useless class.
     
  2. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Why not? He's paid his debt to society.
     
  3. Fryerpower

    Fryerpower Member

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    What is a CWA class?
     
  4. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Then why didn't you speak up and point out the straw man agument and the biass explicit in his position?
     
  5. InkEd

    InkEd Member

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    Idiot liberals in the education system. Typical. Sadly. It only seems to get worse in colleges.
     
  6. wannabeagunsmith

    wannabeagunsmith Member

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    I should have. But 1) I never saw a chance to 2) the moron will never change his mind and 3) He may end up tearing apart what I said and make me and gun owners in general seem like idiots.
     
  7. Inebriated

    Inebriated Member

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    wannabe, the best thing you can do is call him out. Show some statistics, and point out the flaws in his argument. He very may well control the situation, but there's no way he can tear you apart your argument. Everything that gun control stands on is a fallacy. Let him yell and act like he's got it all figured out, but to everyone else in the room, he will look like a fool. Don't stand by and let yet another group of 30 get brainwashed.

    My history teacher was a huge anti. Got into a lot of arguments with him over it over my 11th and 12 grade years (same guy).

    If all he's doing is complaining about the NRA, remind him that he's as free to start his own group and counter the NRA's apparent brainwashing, but to do it in a classroom is just plain unprofessional.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  8. TennJed

    TennJed Member

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    I was wondering the same thing. I tried googling it and couldn't figure it out
     
  9. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    First, I'd just like to say that I'm glad to know that there are folks in your generation who still support our rights. The schools have been trying for too long to encourage a different point of view.

    But, as far as not saying something is concerned, always remember that you aren't necessarily trying to change HIS mind in challenging his position. Rather, your goal is to make sure that the other people in the class have the opportunity to see the fallacy in his arguments. You'll never convince a guy like that to like guns, and he'll never convince you to hate them. But, while you each represent the two opposite ends of this debate, you must always remember that the majority of the people in that classroom are probably undecided on this issue. As such, challenging bogus argument points can ultimately be very beneficial to your (our) cause.

    Incidentally, I fully understand that he might not have given you an opening to speak, so take my reply as a general statement for future arguments on this subject. Also, don't be afraid of his attempts to tear apart your arguments. If you have your facts in order he'll only look foolish and emotional when he tries to argue against you!

    Good luck... I thought schools were liberal when I was there, and they CLEARLY aren't any better today!
     
  10. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    I say don't drop the class. I say do some research, prepair yourself, then go back and make him look like an idiot. It wouldn't take an hour and a half to gather more than enough data to make him start an ad-homonym argument with you. Then you win. JMTC
     
  11. Akita1

    Akita1 Member

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    Really?
     
  12. Akita1

    Akita1 Member

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    The math is on your side (save the non-Harvard "scientists" 2007 study that has been of some debate lately-not debating the legitimacy herein).

    Facts are your friend - of which none of us are entailed to our own set.
     
  13. Baron_Null

    Baron_Null Member

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    My advice would to be to speak up next time. If the teacher doesn't give you a chance to speak, make one. I've been in that kind of situation in one of my classes before, and I spoke up. Sure, I was attacked with arguments, but I was able to counter them. I may not have been able to change the minds of the people debating me, but I know that their ideas didn't go unopposed.

    The important thing to remember is that movements don't start with a leader. They start with a follower.

    Think of that one student. He was being attacked for his views. Think of all the potential other 2a supporters in the class. For all you knew, those other people thought just as you did. They didn't want to have everything they said turned against them. But if they saw that there were other supporters, they might have spoken up as well. Before you know it, it could have turned from an anti-NRA rant from the teacher into a large amount of 2a supporters not allowing the teacher to go unopposed.

    Of course, it's also likely that you would have been attacked for your views. But that's the choice we make as 2a supporters. Will we just let propagandists spew their nonsense with no opposition? Or will we take the risk fighting for what we believe in?
     
  14. MovedWest

    MovedWest Member

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    Maybe this guy is a great teacher. Maybe he's pro-RKBA. Maybe he's looking for someone to grow a pair, step up, and argue a solid point for something they believe in and be convincing. Don't take it for face value. To hell with his point - MAKE YOURS! Just do it well and with confidence. You'll ace the class and win some respect from more than just him.

    Interrupt him. Make your points. Go for nothing but net. Embrace nothing short of an absolute win. Victory begins with your first play. Whatever you do, be calm, collected, and 100% sane. I think he was trolling.

    Let us know how you fare.

    -MW
     
  15. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    Still wonder what a CWA class is????????????????????????????????????
     
  16. btg3

    btg3 Member

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    Possibly...?

    The closed world assumption (CWA) is the presumption that what is not currently known to be true is false. The same name also refers to a logical formalization of this assumption by Raymond Reiter. The opposite of the closed world assumption is the open world assumption (OWA), stating that lack of knowledge does not imply falsity. Decisions on CWA vs. OWA determine the understanding of the actual semantics of a conceptual expression with the same notations of concepts. A successful formalization of natural language semantics usually can not avoid an explicit revelation of the implicit logical backgrounds based on whether CWA or OWA.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_world_assumption
     
  17. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    A high school class that's talking about voting and gun control?

    My guess would be something like "Current World Affairs".
     
  18. flphotog

    flphotog Member

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  19. vaupet

    vaupet Member

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    You could tell him that nobody is allowed to buy an AUTOMATIC weapon, explain the difference and use his technical ignorance to make him look like a fool, done this before in our nice little country. (believe-you-me, we have a great deal more of anti's)

    greetz

    p
     
  20. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Don't argue the "facts" since that's not the point.

    Ask if he's illustrating a logical falacy with the "approach" just used or if he's expressing a political opinion. That then brings to the attention of the other students that his statement is opioin instead of fact based.

    If he says "facts" then ask if he's trying to instigate a discussion since the facts don't bear out the point he's making. If he claims they do, ask if he's an NRA member or a reader of the NRA magazines giving a basis for the statement or if all he knows if popular media representations of the NRA instead of direct knowledge of the organization.

    Odds are he's not a member you'll have just drawn him into admitting his opinion is not based on direct experience and have undermined his position with others in the class who are not invested antis.
     
  21. jim243

    jim243 Member

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    It is a emotional topic not a logical one in today's school environment. The debate would be "civil rights vs public safety." Logic is reserved for College where there would be more acceptance of opposite views. In K-12 they are not there to teach you but to educate (2+2=4). Can you believe there was once 9 planets and now only 8, poor Micky he's lost his best friend Pluto. (LOL)

    As for logic, I doubt that the hiring of these educators has anything to do with LOGIC, they are not there to teach you how to think.

    Jim
     
  22. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    I agree with jim243. I've had a few college teachers who made it clear that they felt it was their personal mission to convert people to liberal views on numerous topics, but those who were (typically, but with exceptions) most willing to hear arguments from the other side were philosophy and religion professors.

    In a high school course, there ought to be more "safety" in expressing one's views on this sort of topic, but at the same time, I would also expect teachers to be far more condescending in high school. I attended high school in an area that could best be described as a rural farming town; and I'm now attending college in a mostly white-collar area that's dominated by republicans and libertarians, so I've had the luxury of only rarely dealing with liberals in an academic setting.

    I definitely wouldn't drop the course, as learning to deal with this sort of teacher is going to be invaluable to you later in life. Even if all you do is learn to shut out the BS and turn in relevant papers without crossing this instructor's point of "give this kid a terrible grade because he disagrees with me." Yes, it does happen. If you can learn to circumnavigate those topics now, you're ahead of the game. That was the hardest part of my early college career. I once had a black political science teacher fail a paper I wrote because I used the term "African American." She claimed it was condescending. I gathered she disagreed with me after I wrote a paper on ...firearms.
     
  23. JFtheGR8

    JFtheGR8 Member

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    I've never heard of "mob voters". Is that like the Chicago welfare voters who organize buses so individuals can vote in both Chicago and Milwaukee? Isn't mob actions at the polls illegal? I don't understand what the teacher is trying to prove other than his own idiocy. His argument doesn't hold up under factual scrutiny. Report him to the school board for intimidating students for exercising a legal and constitutional right if he won't allow a rebuttal.


    Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android
     
  24. osteodoc08

    osteodoc08 Member

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    Sounds like my mandatory cultural awareness class in college. Very one sided....
     
  25. Frosty Dave

    Frosty Dave Member

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    There's your best reason to drop the class. He should be motivating students to debate it among yourselves, not using the classroom as his "bully pulpit."

    If he is going to monopolize sociopolitical discussions for the entire term with straw dogs and other fallacies, it's going to make for a long and unrewarding school year. Consider yourself lucky to have started out on a topic where you know enough factual information to see what a poor instructor he is and get out before drop day passes.
     
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