First Google, now Microsoft

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Trent

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http://advertising.microsoft.com/sm...rch-advertising/disallowed-content-guidelines

My fellow web surfers noted that Google banned firearms, ammo and other "dangerous items" from their "store" earlier this summer.

I (and many others) switched to "Bing" search engine at Microsoft for comparison shopping between vendors.

It appears that will also be going away soon.

"Weapons, knives, firearms, and ammunition
Advertising is not allowed that promotes firearms or weapons of any kind.


Such content includes:
Knives as weapons
Knives that are positioned as weapons or whose primary use is violence, including switchblade knives, disguised knives, buckle knives, lipstick case knives, air gauge knives, knuckle knives, and writing pen knives.
Firearms, ammunition, and integral parts
Guns capable of firing a projectile by using an explosive charge; for example, rifles, shotguns, handguns, semi-automatic or automatic guns, potentially functional replicas or antiques, and blank guns.
Ammunition; for example, bullets and cartridges.
Integral parts, including magazines, stocks, trigger assemblies, hammers, pulls, firing pins, barrels, silencers, and converters.

Militia ordnance and grenades
Ordnance (military weaponry, ammunition, and related parts), even if the item is unserviceable or has been "demilitarized.”
Grenades, including metal military practice grenades, rifle grenades, dummy grenades, grenade launcher attachments, and mines.
Other weapons
Brass, plastic, or metal knuckles.
Leaded canes, staffs, crutches, or sticks.
Zip guns, sand clubs, saps, or blackjacks."
 
Whats the big deal ? Where did we find all of our stuff before we had all this internet BS ? O Well I guess you whipper snappers didn`t...........OMG, RITFLMAO..............
 
Whats the big deal ? Where did we find all of our stuff before we had all this internet BS

I don't think the problem is that we won't be able to find things. The concern seems to be a blatant anti-gun declaration from a major social mover like Microsoft or Google.

The young whipper snappers of today are the crusty old decaying curmudgeons of tomorrow, and the trends they follow (like comparison shopping through search services) tend to become more relevant as time passes.

Sure, we could all still order our guns out of the Sears & Roebuck's catalog and probably send in gold certificate dollars via Pony Express (oh, wait...no we can't) but we'd rather that as society changes it does not relegate us to fringe and antiquated systems and methods -- denying us equal placement in societies major movements.
 
Yes the next thing will be harmful or non politically correct speech...

We used to write letters and wait a couple of weeks for a reply but email sure beats snail mail.

I have just returned from overseas where there are Web sights like THR and AR15 Armory.com that are blocked; you can not access certain sights because someone feels they are inappropriate for the local culture.

Guess it depends on how you feel about freedom of access to divergent views or products and services that someone says you can't have..I think it sucks but there probably is a law or web sight saying things that suck are not allowed already; welcome to the world we live in.
 
They can't stop Brownell's or Cabela's or Knifeworks or Himalayan-Imports or Ragweed Forge from having web sites, nor can they stop us from recommending these to each other so up theirs really.
 
Sam - I couldn't have put it better.

The fact is, today, shopping online has become the DE FACTO method of ordering goods.

My wife just completed ALL of our school supply shopping for 5 kids in 30 minutes online. Last time she went to a store and did it, it took almost 3 hours to find everything. Two days after she clicked the button, everything shows up at our doorstep in brown boxes. Done.

15 years ago when I shopped for ammunition, it consisted of opening up Shotgun news, grabbing a highlighter, and cross checking every ad in the thing for the best price. Compiling them in a list in order of best to not-so-best. THEN calling and finding out "oh we're out of stock, sorry", going down the line, until I found a place to order from. (Man, do I miss the days of 1440 round cases of 7.62x39 for $59)

Today, I open a web browser, enter a comparison search for 8mm ammo, and find out AIM has the best price - in 5 seconds. Log in, click what I want, submit, enter card, done. Two weeks later they get around to picking my order and their donkey express shipping drops it at my front door a week later.

The Internet has been quickly replacing paper print magazines for shopping. I mean, I haven't needed to order a shotgun news subscription in 10+ years to find what I want, even if it's obscure. ESPECIALLY if it's obscure. Need a replacement widget for an antique gun? One search, poof, got it on the way in < 5 minutes.

IF THEY VOLUNTARILY RESTRICT THIS IT OPENS THE DOOR FOR LEGISLATIVE RESTRICTION BY SETTING A PRECEDENT.

"All of the major search engines have restricted firearms advertisement for {x} years, lets just ban all firearms and ammunition from the internet."

And it's done.
 
For those of you who don't think it's possible to restrict "dangerous goods" from being advertised on the Internet, think again.

All it takes is one "for the children" bill and the internet can be censored for domestic corporations. PERIOD.

THEY KEEP TRYING TO DO THAT VERY THING EVERY YEAR.

This year it was SOPA/PIPA, and it NARROWLY got shot down.
 
I was about to say, "so what, what do you expect from them?".
They're both hugely powerful entities and already apply censorship to what will appear on their sites.
It isn't much of a leap to see either applying their corporate beliefs to further censorship.
Blocking gun advocacy groups?
I don't think much of the tin foil hat crowd, but threatening scenarios can come from this.
 
303, believe it or not I'm sure a good number of our membership hasn't experienced life without the Internet, cells, computers, etc..

OP, While I'm not smoke signal old you can use Firefox browser with the invisible hand plug in. It will automatically find the lowest price, plus shipping, on what your searching for and give you alternatives.



ETA: I'm in a country right now the severely restrict what you can view see over the Internet. It sucks, lots of gun sites, parts suppliers, and a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense..
 
tarosean;

My use of computers pre-dates the Internet. I cut my teeth on dial up BBS's w/ a 300 baud modem, saw the evolution of QuantumLink in to AOL, remember Tymenet and Telenet networks, the rise and fall of Delphi, the rise and fall of Prodigy, the evolution of BBS's with ECHONet intra-BBS mail (and other such mechanisms, FIDONet, etc). Eventually giving rise to the advent of HTTP protocol, I remember the RFC document behind it. I was one of the first people who accessed the internet over a dialup connection in our area, which happened to be long distance from us (and, when I was 15, received a nasty knock from a certain law enforcement agency about free phone calls that scared the hell out of my grandparents).

Fast forward a couple decades, I run two datacenters in the Midwest (soon to add a third), and provide corporate hosting services for fortune-500 companies.

So "I've been around the block" when it comes to computer networks. A few times.

I'm as active and vocal in digital rights (maybe more-so) as I am in 2nd amendment rights. When I see the two cross over, I get DAMNED nervous.

Freedom of speech is a right that INDIVIDUALS have. Corporations have no such "right". It is currently a privilege that can be REVOKED.

So when I say that they can ban ALL weapons sites "for the safety of the children", I am not part of the tinfoil hat crowd, I am NOT being paranoid. This is a very REAL possibility, and something they have been trying to do for some time, with SOME very real success stories. (Digital Millenium Copyright Act, federal government can shut down any website which has copyright infringing material, etc). The recent pushes for SOPA/PIPA are another example; took a "blackout" and heavy lobbying by a grassroots effort of independent hosting providers to stem the tide of that and prevent it from being passed in to legislation.

No, this is serious, and it really sucks on a number of levels.

I *understand* why they are doing it, but I don't *agree* with it. (What it amounts to is a corporate fear of liability - The big companies don't want to be held liable if the next Joker buys his firearms "through" their search engine.)

I wasn't as concerned with Google, as there were alternatives (bing, for one). Now that is gone, there's fewer alternatives. Soon there may be none.
 
My use of computers pre-dates the Internet. I cut my teeth on dial up BBS's w/ a 300 baud modem, saw the evolution of QuantumLink in to AOL, remember Tymenet and Telenet networks, the rise and fall of Delphi, the rise and fall of Prodigy, the evolution of BBS's with ECHONet intra-BBS mail (and other such mechanisms, FIDONet, etc). Eventually giving rise to the advent of HTTP protocol, I remember the RFC document behind it. I was one of the first people who accessed the internet over a dialup connection in our area, which happened to be long distance from us (and, when I was 15, received a nasty knock from a certain law enforcement agency about free phone calls that scared the hell out of my grandparents).

Fast forward a couple decades, I run two datacenters in the Midwest (soon to add a third), and provide corporate hosting services for fortune-500 companies.

So "I've been around the block" when it comes to computer networks. A few times.

I'm as active and vocal in digital rights (maybe more-so) as I am in 2nd amendment rights. When I see the two cross over, I get DAMNED nervous.

Freedom of speech is a right that INDIVIDUALS have. Corporations have no such "right". It is currently a privilege that can be REVOKED.

So when I say that they can ban ALL weapons sites "for the safety of the children", I am not part of the tinfoil hat crowd, I am NOT being paranoid. This is a very REAL possibility, and something they have been trying to do for some time, with SOME very real success stories. (Digital Millenium Copyright Act, federal government can shut down any website which has copyright infringing material, etc). The recent pushes for SOPA/PIPA are another example; took a "blackout" and heavy lobbying by a grassroots effort of independent hosting providers to stem the tide of that and prevent it from being passed in to legislation.

No, this is serious, and it really sucks on a number of levels.

I *understand* why they are doing it, but I don't *agree* with it. (What it amounts to is a corporate fear of liability - The big companies don't want to be held liable if the next Joker buys his firearms "through" their search engine.)

I wasn't as concerned with Google, as there were alternatives (bing, for one). Now that is gone, there's fewer alternatives. Soon there may be none.

Trent well said^^^^

It is amazing how quickly someone will scream Conspiracy or Tin Foil when something that is happening out of their knowledge base is spoken or crosses the unknowings path . I suppose if the New York Times or CNN says something then it must be fact and not Tin Foil anymore??

I would rather believe my 8 year old neighbor or my own eyes than most things from those two..
 
The internet is here to make finding things easier. Not being able to use the shopping features to shop for prices is a PITA.
 
Also, at least as of today, we are still a capitalist country. If there is demand, someone will supply it.
 
Why is this a problem?

Because it follows an agenda of "denormalization", which is a step to "de-legitimization".

Just ask the Dark & Fascist state of NJ, which has prohibited many of the instrumentalities and means of the otherwise lawful commerce of arms for decades.
 
More people should use Linux specifically to stick it to Gates and his ilk. I like many M$ products, but I don't care for his politics. But he has a "bully pulpit" since so many hang on his every proclamation.

Google is also a 900# gorilla. Their words have weight far beyond their worth.

Both companies are big on privacy invasion these days as well, so people should refrain from using their products just on general principles.

Linux for OS, Opera or Firefox for browsers, any number of email clients rather than Outlook. IE is a dog anyway, so that's easy to give up.

There are many other search engines, so if Google gets money from people using Google search, use something else to stick it to them. The only thing companies understand is money. Take it away and get their attention.
 
I used Google shopping a lot and I regret that I've lost a valuable resource to find the lowest price on firearms. But I also believe necessity is the mother of invention, so I look forward to other search engines jumping in to fill this void.
 
I recognize a company's right to do as they choose.
I also recognize my right to switch to another search engine and block all Google and Microsoft-sponsored ads.
 
They did it with file sharing, and several firearms sites, on interner explorer, I switched to google's Chrome and the websights were available again, it's not just guns, they want to be able to censore what we can be exposed to. that's not what the internet is supposed to be about. It is supposed give everyone equal access to everything, good and bad, because who is to say what is good and what is bad. it's dictating morality again.
The good thing is there is always a way around whetever they put up to block us from watching whatever we choose to.
I am not talking aboout Porn, I never understood that to be honest, but I don't have the right to stop those who do watch it from doing so, just as gun, music, and movie sites. it's all out there anyway, trying to get artists who make 100 million a year to complain that their songs are being downloaded is just plain rediculous. It's actully better exposure for them.People who never would have heard them now get a chance to hear them for the first time, only because it's free..Many bands and groups now get their start on Utube, or no one would have ever heard them. It's the rich ones who don't want their stuff downloaded, they already made their money for 30-50 years of selling records. Give someone who can't afford to buy the album a chance to become a fan. Even MMA several fighters have become mainstream shocasing their skills on utube. Firearms are the same, by blocking sites like this one and others from accesing their members is really a backwords stance. Comcast had stopped THR from sending out forgotten passwords for a while, then a couple of computer sites I use for info, same thing, A few weeks later they were all back up again, someone must have made a stink about it.If a webhost thinks they can take their pro or anti feelings about anything and block opposing views on any particular subject, they are stepping out of line. We must be watchfull to make sure this does not happen, it's all about control again, heard the sheep int the pen.
 
Turning this in to a browser or OS war isn't going to help matters.

Not my intention. I still use Windows products. I just offered an alternative to Windows that some people may not have known about.

I have a mixture of Windows and Linux on my machines. I don't care for IE, but that's easy to do with all the other browsers available.

Linux may scare some people since it's perceived as not as easy to use as Windows. That's not the case anymore, and by using a form of Linux and the free software available for it, it keeps you from sending money to companies that work against us.

No war was intended.
 
Oh yeah, Linux is user friendly. I have used it in two different healthcare facilities, and both uses are notoriously non-user friendly and inefficient. I won't have Linux on any of my computers! I think it is funny that people use Google anything-I sure won't. I guess we all use what we are comfortable with. Yes the powers that be can try to control the masses. How did prohibition work out, or for that matter the war on drugs. If you want it in America and have the coins to pay for it, it is yours( so are the consequences).
ll
 
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