First gun for girlfriend?

[Flopsy]

My apologies if this question has been asked and beat to death, but I am relatively new here and would like a fresh perspective considering the new array of autoloaders on the market in the last year or two.

I am a moderately experienced shooter, and in the way of pistols I own a Beretta Cheetah .380 and a Glock 27 and carry both (not at the same time, I mean I choose one or the other based on the situation). My girlfriend really wants to get her first gun primarily for home defense, but wants it to be decent for occasional carry as well, so size and weight considerations apply. Also, of course, she's a girl and will be sensitive to high recoil and very tight recoil springs.

It's her first gun, so I want something relatively safe and simple for her. She really likes my Glock because of its simplicity and she has no trouble pulling back its slide, but I'm recommending to her that she consider other types because of its lack of safety features and her ZERO shooting experience (I'm not knocking Glocks, I love mine, I just think it's better for a more experienced shooter). Something like my Beretta Cheetah .380 I think would be a good choice, but because of its blowback action she has a hard time with that tight recoil spring. She doesn't really like Kahrs because of their clunky grips, and again I'm not crazy about them for a selection for her
because of lack of manual safety.

We're going to the range on Saturday to see how she fairs with my Glock, if she's just dead set on it and learns well I may stop cautioning her against it - I'm a strong believer in letting shooters go with their individual preference if it's well considered. But I wanted some alternatives from the expert and distinguished members of THR.

So what would be a good first gun for:

1. A woman with slight strength concerns (recoil, springs, etc.)
2. Has good safety features (Please don't bother with the "BUT YA KNOW GLOCKS ARE SAFE"...yes, I know, in the hands of an experienced shooter they are)
3. Decent stopping power without spraining her wrist
4. Good for both home defense and carry

One good option I thought of was Springfield XD, as it is somewhat comparable to the Glock but with some added safety mechanisms, but what do you think? Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Oh and by the way, no revolvers. She's definitely set on a semi-auto. Thanks.

 

[Starter52]

It is difficult to find one gun that is good for a beginner and is good for a carry gun.

If not for the carrying aspect I would recommend a Ruger .22 Auto. It is a simple gun, easy to operate and reasonably priced. Your girlfriend should start with a .22 if she has zero experience with guns.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Given your requirements :

1. A woman with slight strength concerns (recoil, springs, etc.)
2. Has good safety features (Please don't bother with the "BUT YA KNOW GLOCKS ARE SAFE"...yes, I know, in the hands of an experienced shooter they are)
3. Decent stopping power without spraining her wrist
4. Good for both home defense and carry

You're not gonna like this, but a .38 revolver fits those.

I can't think of an autoloader that will have all of that.
She may "set" on auto but if she can't use one that doesn't make much difference. But here's what I went through with a wife that insisted she didn't want a revolver either.

My wife swears my Bersa .380 hurts much more than even my lightweight 386PD shooting .38s. Of all the autos we tried this was the best one. recoil spring was light enough to manipulate, and usable (though borderline) stopping power.

She had trouble racking the slide on all but the Bersa and P22, which isn't enough for SD in my opinion.

The 92 was too big for her hands.

She held and liked a Rohrbaugh, but I'm not dropping a grand on that thing and I'm sure that the recoil would have been too much given the size.

I wound up buying her a 637. She didn't like it at first but when she learned she could shoot it well her attitude changed.

 

[Zundfolge]

First thing to do is take her to a gun shop with a good selection and have her fondle a few ... we can all discuss theory all day long but how a gun fits in her hand is going to be more important.

Second, this whole "too weak to rack a slide" thing is all about technique not strength ... she needs to learn the push technique and then she'll be able to rack the slide on ANY semi auto. Have her tightly grasp the back part of the slide with her left hand and the grip of the pistol with her right (finger off trigger of course), then she should PUSH the frame with her right hand (not pull the slide with her left). Once the slide is all the way back she releases the left hand and the round chambers.


As for a suggestion, the XD is a decent choice. I'm fond of the steel Kahrs for a beginner (very simple manual of arms, well built, accurate, carry well).

(Please don't bother with the "BUT YA KNOW GLOCKS ARE SAFE"...yes, I know, in the hands of an experienced shooter they are)

If one can't safely handle a Glock they can't handle ANY gun safely. Glocks are perfectly safe (boring, ugly, yucky triggers, but safe).

 

[1911 guy]

I post this often.

Steps to choosing a firearm:

1) decide on action type. There are DA and SA revolvers, SA, DA and DAO autos. Explain as much as she's willing to absorb and let her decide.

2) caliber. SD calibers generally start about .380 and up. Explain pro's, con's and let her decide.

3) Handgun fit. Explain to her in detail what constitutes a good fit. Let her try all sorts of guns that fit the first two criteria. She may find one that goes against #1 and/or #2, live with it. Let her decide.

Guide her selection based on common sense factors, but let it be her decision. She and every other shooter on the planet will shoot better with a gun they like. If you box her into it, she won't like it.

 

[knoxx45]

You should consult the expert:

Check out www.corneredcat.com

Maybe have your GF check it out too. Its run by a member here who is a woman, and it it a firearms/ self defense site for women. She asked us all to check it out and have a look to see if it needed anything, and let me tell you, it was very well orginized, easy to use, and informative. I thing that it would be a good place to start.

-knoxx

 

[Flopsy]

Great suggestions so far, thanks to all. As for hooking her up with a .22 auto, I think I have to decline that one. Not really much stopping power there, and I learned on a Sig .40.

All others will be taken into serious account - there's a huge gun show tomorrow so there will be all types of fondling going on

As for Glocks being ugly, I think they look pretty damn sweet!

 

[Soybomb]

I don't believe for a second you have to be a shooter with years of experience to have a gun without a manual safety. The idea that if you pull the trigger the gun will always fire is a simple one.

I think the number 1 problem with guys getting their ladies to shoot is they feel like to use their gun knowledge to decide whats best and choose a gun for their lady friend. She winds up with a j-frame or something because the guy "teaching" her decideds its what her girly mind and body can handle. Let her try some guns out and buy whatever she likes best, even if you don't like it. If she can tie her shoes by herself, she can probably handle a glock just fine.

 

[Autolycus]

HK P2000sk in 9mm. Get an LEM trigger or a DA/SA whatever SHE prefers.

The key is letting her decide what she likes. It is her gun and if she finds one she likes but you do not let her have it. She will be more likely to carry it because she is comfortable with it. Advise her against it if you like but dont say no.

And the key afterwards would be to find a good holster. I believe www.kramerleather.com makes a holsters for women. His quality is also rumored to be top notch.

Eitherway check out the CorneredCat site.

 

[Flopsy]

I don't believe for a second you have to be a shooter with years of experience to have a gun without a manual safety. The idea that if you pull the trigger the gun will always fire is a simple one.

I think the number 1 problem with guys getting their ladies to shoot is they feel like to use their gun knowledge to decide whats best and choose a gun for their lady friend. She winds up with a j-frame or something because the guy "teaching" her decideds its what her girly mind and body can handle. Let her try some guns out and buy whatever she likes best, even if you don't like it. If she can tie her shoes by herself, she can probably handle a glock just fine.

Thanks for the admonition. What I'm trying to do here is develop a big variety of choices that might be appropriate for a particular set of circumstances, not railroad her. If you read my post, you'd see that I'm a big believer in going with personal preference when well considered - I'm trying to make sure that all options are well considered.

 

[tegemu]

I was going to recommend PAX at www.corneredcat.com but I see I am a day late and a dollar short. NO ONE deals with women and guns better than PAX does.

 

[EdLaver]

I'd definetly say a .38 revolver with some crimson trace grips. I bought my wife a Bersa .380 acp for CC and she loves it. She has become almost a dead eye with it. But she cant group as well with higher calibers.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Hello Flopsy - welcome to THR.

I think what did you in was this sentence...

Also, of course, she's a girl and will be sensitive to high recoil and very tight recoil springs.

That one sentence is what caused me to pass this thread up at first, because I didn't feel like I could answer it without chastising you a little bit. Given that another member has also given his opinion, and you considered that being admonished, I'd like to try and chime in so you understand where he is coming from.

I read that sentence to my girlfriend, and she called you a name I won't repeat here... followed by "Oh God... I can't imagine I'd even like guns if you were that way with me."

So, chances are, that's NOT the way you want to approach this one with your own girlfriend.

She winds up with a j-frame or something because the guy "teaching" her decideds its what her girly mind and body can handle. Let her try some guns out and buy whatever she likes best, even if you don't like it. If she can tie her shoes by herself, she can probably handle a glock just fine.

This is not a flame... it's a warning about what CAN happen if you choose her guns for her, and an attempt to set you straight somewhat in your way of thinking. If you truly want to buy your girlfriend a gun that YOU think is right for her, then try this... Let her buy your next outfit without any input from you - and see how much you like what she brings home. Then let her tell you that you have to wear it every single day, no matter how much you don't like it...

Well, if you pick her gun for her, that's exactly what you could be doing.

Buying a gun is a very personal thing - it's not something you can do for anyone else. No one, including (and especially) you should decide what she carries - but the assumption that she will be recoil sensitive is often considered a sexist one, and rightfully so IMO. I've taken tiny women to the range who were bored until I handed them my full size 1911. My girlfriend likes .45's, .40's, and .357 Sigs - I have a friend who is all of 4'10" and 100lbs., and she likes to shoot my .357 Magnum one handed... I have another friend - quite a sturdy framed girl who couldn't wait to go and shoot all my "big guns". It turns out she's the only girl I know who is recoil sensitive. You simply cannot make a good assumption about what a woman will like - anymore than someone else can assume what you'll like.

Lecture aside, the only way you can know what she likes is by taking her to a range, gunstore, gun show, whatever... and let her get her hands on (and shoot, if possible) as many guns as she likes. She'll find something that fits... and I don't care if it's a nickel-plated pimp pistol trimmed in gold - you buy it for her.

If she wants a Glock, buy it. If she wants a Desert Eagle in .50 AE, and she's never shot a pistol before - you STILL buy it for her. Don't tell her that what she wants is too dangerous - don't even think that way. I understand you love her, but this is a gun you're buying... chances are she knows exactly how serious all of this is, and is willing to learn everything she needs to in order to be as safe as possible... They (women) aren't cocky when it comes to this stuff like us guys can be.

She will tell you what's too much and what she does and doesn't like... you be as honest and open as possible, but never try to make her decision for her, or tell her what she should get. If you buy her something she likes, she'll want to shoot it. She'll play with it, carry it, clean it, and love her gun. She'll probably turn into a gun nut in her own time.

Buy her something YOU like, and maybe she doesn't like it so much - then you might have just ruined the entire experience for her, and you might have even turned someone off of the entire concept of gun ownership, or shooting - and I'm sure that's not what you want to do.

Hope that helps a little... No one wants to flame you or admonish you, and that's not my intention either. We just want to make sure you don't make a bad move, and turn your girlfriend into an anti with a silly assumption about what she will and wont like, or what she can and can't handle. Let her surprise you. Undoubtedly, if you play your cards right, she will one day.

And dont turn into one of those jerks who stops going with her to the range when she learns to outshoot you.

Oh... trust me... that WILL happen.

Take care and good luck!

 

[t49si83]

People (especially americans) need to be constantly reminded that women think entirely differently, ENTIRELY differently than men.

My girlfriend really wants to get her first gun primarily for

I don't believe that for two seconds. Until proven otherwise, she likes the idea because of YOU. That's just the way women are. When they like a guy, they look for reasons to spend time with him. I suspect that you believe she has GENUINE interest. People who spend the effort to REALLY watch women's behavior know that women are incredible actors. If you LISTEN to many of them, you'll find that they constantly ADMIT that they act so well they convince themselves.

The reality is that women TIE things together emotionally and by association, instead of on it's own merits. Translation: if you broke up tomorrow, she would go back to not really caring about guns. Think about it by subtracting the wishful thinking (something not many people can do).

I know I know, it's exciting when a woman expresses alleged interest in guns, ESPECIALLY when it's a woman you are attracted to. It feels like you've got a kind of "soul mate" or a "convert" to our side.

If you REALLY want to help her develop an independent enjoyment of guns, you've got to focus on the ENJOYMENT factor. The very fact that she allegedly "wants" it for "home defense" is very telling. She hasn't learned how to have actual FUN with guns yet, so she reverts to using survival instinct so she can have a reason to share your hobby with you.

I've personally noticed many women, effectively all of them who are first time shooters, be quite overwhelmed by the semi auto handgun when they ACTUALLY get it in their hands with ammo. They're overwhelmed by dealing with the slide especially. They're REALLY overwhelmed when there is a malfunction.

I don't know if you're willing to listen to this, but she needs to learn on a .22 revolver because it's simple to load and won't "jam." Sure, you can hand a guy who has never shot a gun a .50 AE without "damaging" him emotionally or scaring him off. Sure, he might not want to shoot another mag full, but he'll take it as a learning experience. Women really don't take kindly to difficult "learning experiences." They do better in a managed environment, and they get resentful/angry at men who don't understand this and hand them something anyway that ends up overwhelming them. This usually takes the form of their "interest" in guns coming to an end.

 

[cslinger]

t49si83,
Let it out man, let it all out. Its okay really. You have a bad experience with a woman lately? Just messing with you.

I do agree that .22 revolver is a great learning gun. I don't agree the the vast majority of first time female shooters cannot handle a semi auto or a non rimfire caliber. Hell the vast majority I have taught have prefered to move to the 9 or .45 very quickly.

Let HER decide what feels good and then give her the pros and cons.

Chris

 

[RNB65]

IMHO, inexperienced shooters have no business handling any type of semi-auto handgun regardless of whether it has a manual safety or not. All semi's require experience and a great deal of familiarity to be handled safely.

My first two recommendations were going to be either a .38 revolver or a Kahr K9, both are simple, compact, reliable guns with a heavy enough trigger pull to minimize the chance of an accidental discharge. But I see you've ruled those out. I don't care for anything less than 9mm/.38 Special for defense so I suggest you avoid the mouse guns.

Personally, I don't want a manual safety on a home defense handgun. I don't want to have to remember to turn the safety off during the high stress of a defensive situation. If you forget to flip the safety button, you probably won't get a second chance.

What you want or what I might recommend are both totally irrelevent. What SHE wants is the only thing that matters. Have her try different guns and chose the one she likes best. Then take her to the range until she has the experience to handle it safely.

 

[Blue .45]

My first gun was a S&W model 19 .357. I have smallish hands so I used Pachmeyer grips with open backstrap althought, there are a wide variety of sizes and styles of after market grips to choose from. It also accepted a wide variety of ammo. I've since gotten more involved with semi-autos and recently gave the 19 to my niece. It seems to fit her well and she has the option of loading it with milder .38s as she's not used to heavier recoil yet. A S&W K frame or Ruger GP100 with a 3" shouldn't be too hard to conseal. Just something else to consider.

 

[Juna]

Here's a suggestion (since you didn't specify price range)...

How about an H&K P2000SK in 9mm? My wife can easily handle 9mm, so recoil shouldn't be a big concern, especially with H&K's recoil reduction systems. Also, it's relatively small (concealable) and light (polymer) with adjustable backstraps for her hands. Yet, it's large enough to shoot at the range, too. They come in multiple variants with different options as far as safety, decocker, LEM, etc.

Another suggestion is a CZ 75D PCR. Same pros, but alloy instead of polymer. Very accurate. My wife loves my CZ 75BD, but thinks it's too heavy after a range session, so the alloy frame solves that. But this only has a decocker, which you may or may not like. So your "safety" is a good DA trigger pull.

 

[pax]

t49si83,

What a remarkable post.

I am glad I never met you while dating.

pax

Women will forgive anything. Otherwise the race would have died out long ago. -- Robert Heinlein

 

[CalamityJane]

Thanks Pax, I couldn't quite articulate my thoughts, but you did perfectly.


FWIW, I actually DID start out wanting a gun for self-defense, and then discovered what great fun shooting is.

 

[10-Ring]

What I do w/ new shooters is:
1st - teach them some basics from safety to basic technique
2nd - take them shooting w/ my guns. I have enough now that a new shooter can learn w/ 22's and move up to semi auto or wheelgun, 22lr to 45 acp
3rd - rent the prosects on their potential list and shoot some more
4th - homefully by this point, they'll be able to determine what they like, don't like and the action type they prefer
5th - take them to my favorite shop & let them loose

 

[LeonCarr]

Another vote for allowing the lady choose the gun, through trying different guns at a gun show or gun shop to see which one fits her hand better, and/or going to a gun range and shooting rental guns before making a purchase.

IME the handgun that most ladies shoot best is the 1911 .45, with most ladies commenting that they like the short, crisp, trigger pull.

I remember one time at the range a guy was teaching his girlfriend to shoot with a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Magnum loaded with full power magnum ammo (I saw the box sitting on the bench). She was scared to death of the gun after the first shot.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[scurtis_34471]

My wife and I just bought our first gun. I've shot pistols before, but she hasn't. I wanted to make sure I got a gun we could both carry and use, so I took her gun shopping with me. Of all the compact semi-autos we tried, she liked the Bersa Thunder .380 Concealed Carry and the Firestorm .380 the best. She did not like the grip on the regular Bersa Thunder, although the wrap-around grip on the Firestorm version is available aftermarket for $25.

I'm taking her shooting tomorrow, so we'll see how it pans out.

 

[Flopsy]

So, chances are, that's NOT the way you want to approach this one with your own girlfriend.

No, that's the way she approached it with me. It's not my approach, it's a fact. She has strength concerns.


And how can THIS guy get away with...

Until proven otherwise, she likes the idea because of YOU. That's just the way women are. When they like a guy, they look for reasons to spend time with him.

...and not get admonished? How sexist is THAT? But I say I believe in well considered personal preference, but people jump on my **** and dude's girlfriend calls me an unmentionable? Is this like newbie hazing or something?

 

[Prince Yamato]

Beh! Don't start at .22 and go up. Start at .357 or .45LC and go down. The first handgun I let one of my girlfriends shoot was a .45LC revolver. We also had a .357 mag out. She preferred the .45. Unless the woman is slight and there is a concern that the gun weighs more than her, let her shoot something beefy. It has also been my experience that women prefer revolvers. Don't know why. I say start big and then everything else looks small. If you start at .22, there will be the anticipation that, "Oh gosh, this next caliber is larger". The first gun I ever actually let the g/f shoot was an 8x56 mauser. Trust me, after that, all I said was, "this new gun has less kick".