Fixing a canted front sight (AK)

[Packman]

Well, I took my friend out two weeks ago to let him shoot my AK. He liked it enough he went out and bought his own. Unfortunately, the one he picked up has a slightly canted front sight base. He said he didn't realize it was such a problem. If he'd have told me he wanted to buy one, I'd have gone with him. I went out and shot it with him to see how bad it was. The post is adjusted to the stop, and it's about 4 inches off at 25 yards.

I found this site
http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/fsbcantfix.htm
with instructions on how to fix it.

are these reliable instructions? I'll be lending him a hand with the fix, so it's not just info I'm tossing him with a good luck wish.

Has anyone tried this method? any tips you can pass along? We'll probably do the fix either this weekend or next, when we get some mutual free time.

Thanks all.

 

[dfariswheel]

The instructions are valid.

The only thing I'd add is to make sure you use tight pins to replace the originals.
Ideally, you'd use some tapered pins similar to the pins used in the AR-15/M16 front sight assembly.

Be VERY careful when re-drilling the holes so as to not let the drill bit drift.
The idea is to cut new grooves in the barrel so the pins will lock the sight support in the new position.
Personally, the one time I had to correct a canted sight support, I used a round needle file to hand-file the holes. This way, I was sure I was grooving the barrel and not ruining a front sight support.

I am NOT, repeat NOT recommending this, but I've heard of some people just laying the barrel on a bench block and beating on the sight support until it shifted to the desired position.
Again, I'm NOT recommending this.

 

[THE MACHINIST]

yeah i had a maddi that had the sights put on crooked

yeah i had a maddi that had the sights put on crooked too.

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

If your friend just bought it new, return it to the manufacturer. They will replace it.

I am making the assumption that yours is Century International Arms built. The drunken monkeys they employ to assemble their AK's commonly foul up putting the sights on. I bought a Century M70AB2 last year with the same problem, and Century replaced it for me without any issue.

Give Century a call (see www.centuryarms.com), get an RMA, and ship it back UPS ground. Century will send a new rifle, and will check it this time before shipping it out. Turnaround takes about 30-45 days.

 

[rocinante]

funny my new saiga sights were slightly canted to the left too. When I knocked it off to put a muzzle brake on I just left it off and am relying on my cobra red dot. Probably short sighted but it works for me.

 

[Packman]

Thanks guys, I'm not sure if he bought it new or used, if it's new, I'll tell him to send it in to century. What, if anything, does it cost to get Century to take it in? shipping? Service charge?

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

Thanks guys, I'm not sure if he bought it new or used, if it's new, I'll tell him to send it in to century. What, if anything, does it cost to get Century to take it in? shipping? Service charge?

IIRC, it cost about $15 for UPS ground shipping and insurance. Century charges nothing, it should be under warranty. Century pays return shipping charges.

When you ship it, you must take it to a UPS distribution center customer counter. You can't take it to one of the "UPS stores." See http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/guidelines/firearms.html

 

[nalioth]

I am NOT, repeat NOT recommending this, but I've heard of some people just laying the barrel on a bench block and beating on the sight support until it shifted to the desired position.
Again, I'm NOT recommending this.

You mean something similar to the "old monkey wrench twist" method?

I am making the assumption that yours is Century International Arms built. The drunken monkeys they employ to assemble their AK's commonly foul up putting the sights on.

While Century is guilty of a lot of abuse, they do not build the WASR. If you must blame someone for the canted sights, put the blame on the Romanians who built it, or the Romanian QC point it got overlooked at.

When you ship it, you must take it to a UPS distribution center customer counter.

What's the matter with the US mail? You can send long guns through there just fine.

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

While Century is guilty of a lot of abuse, they do not build the WASR. If you must blame someone for the canted sights, put the blame on the Romanians who built it, or the Romanian QC point it got overlooked at.

Sorry, you're wrong here.

In order to comply with 18 USC 922(r), any military AK now imported must be imported nearly entirely as parts and then reassembled with the correct number of USA made parts. In 2005 the ATF delcared the barrels of any 925(d)(3) (any non-curio & relic military surplus) type weapon non-importable. Since then, AK's must be assembled in the United States with a USA made barrel and nine other USA made parts listed in 27 CFR 178.39(c).

A military AK variant of any type is not currently importable with a barrel. It has to be built with a USA made barrel; hence, Century employs drunken monkeys to install said USA made barrels, nine other USA-made compliance parts from 27 CFR 178.39(c) and poorly installed, canted, front sights.

Saiga can skirt this because it is not a military surplus weapon under 18 USC 925(d)(3). It is a "sporting arm." This is why Saigas don't take military AK magazines (unless "aftermarket" converted to do so).

Furthermore, I don't see where the OP stated that it was or was not a WASR. My guess is it is a M70 from Century--they are famous for canted front sights. However, that's just a guess.

What's the matter with the US mail? You can send long guns through there just fine.

Century International Arms only accepts shipments from UPS. If you call them for an RMA, they tell you that if you ship it any method other than UPS, the shipment will be refused.

 

[Hoppy590]

orry, you're wrong here.

In order to comply with 18 USC 922(r), any military AK now imported must be imported nearly entirely as parts and then reassembled with the correct number of USA made parts. In 2005 the ATF delcared the barrels of any 925(d)(3) (any non-curio & relic military surplus) type weapon non-importable. Since then, AK's must be assembled in the United States with a USA made barrel and nine other USA made parts listed in 27 CFR 178.39(c).

A military AK variant of any type is not currently importable with a barrel. It has to be built with a USA made barrel; hence, Century employs drunken monkeys to install said USA made barrels, nine other USA-made compliance parts from 27 CFR 178.39(c) and poorly installed, canted, front sights.

Saiga can skirt this because it is not a military surplus weapon under 18 USC 925(d)(3). It is a "sporting arm." This is why Saigas don't take military AK magazines (unless "aftermarket" converted to do so).

Furthermore, I don't see where the OP stated that it was or was not a WASR. My guess is it is a M70 from Century--they are famous for canted front sights. However, that's just a guess.

actualy your wrong.

WASR's are brought in as single stack "sporting guns" and opened up and 922 parts are added

the barrel ban only applys to parts not whole rifles. nor would it need 9 parts. but only 6. i can only assume your math is bad or you failed to actually know what 922 parts are in an AK.

the initial importation of WASR's is for "sporting purposes" and the single stack magazine in NOT a military magazine... not sure why you think that matters.
925 states

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has determined that the language of 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3) permits no exceptions that would allow frames, receivers or barrels for otherwise non-importable firearms to be imported into the United States.Accordingly, ATF will no longer approve ATF Form 6 applications for importation of any frames, receivers, or barrels for firearms that would be prohibited from importation if assembled.

being the wasr has been legal to import for years as have any number of AK clones so long as they are then made to comply with 922. the barrel ban is effectively limited to parts kits and rebuilds. and in no way effective towards entire rifles assuming they have met 922
expressed best here

ATF recognizes that importers have, in the past, obtained import permits authorizing the importation of barrels and receivers for non-importable firearms for "repair or replacement"

where oh where do you get the idea that WASR's or commercialy built semi auto AK's compliant with 922 are not importable?

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

Commercially built "sporting" rifles ARE importable. Look at Saiga. Frankly, I'm not particular familiar with WASR's. I prefer "beefier" AK's with all the bells and whistles that are not allowed in some states but are permitted in mine. If WASR's are built with non-military parts, then they should be importable as well. If they are "military surplus," then they are not. Like I said before, show us where the OP said that he had a WASR. He didn't.

Military surplus semi-automatics are not importable unless classified as curio and relics. It's clear as day in 18 USC 925(d)(3). Yugo M70 AK's are military surplus, and are not importable as-is. This is why the ones you see here are built in the USA on DC Industries receivers with a no-name barrel, canted front sights, and usually Tapco trigger parts. The cheaper ones are Century, the better ones (for an extra few hundred bucks) are made by Vector Arms. I have never seen a Vector with canted sights.

OK, sure, the letter linked above only applies to parts kits. However, if the only way that the rifle can be imported is as a parts kit, then that applies. Since the importation of military surplus semi-autos is banned by 18 USC 925(d)(3), and therefore can only be imported as parts, then you can't import the barrel. You have to use a US made barrel, hence the canted sights.

BTW, I can do math very well. Please take the HIGH ROAD and put a lid on the personal insults. I didn't demean you, please don't demean me. The law says no more than ten of the listed parts. Regardless, you still have to replace enough parts to make it compliant.

 

[Hoppy590]

theres nothing more than circumstantial evidence hes refering to a WASR or SAR aside from the well know cant issue in WASR's and the link to "Romanian Kalashnikov rifles"
that asside. i never made that argument. i was directly addressing this

While Century is guilty of a lot of abuse, they do not build the WASR. If you must blame someone for the canted sights, put the blame on the Romanians who built it, or the Romanian QC point it got overlooked at.

Sorry, you're wrong here.

the Romanians DO build the WASR as whole rifle, with a single stack magazine deemed as a sporting rifle. it is then imported to the USA. mag well is opened up and parts added to meet 922.

that is the arguement i posed, not that the OP has a WASR.

i never mentioned yugo M70's

 

[W.E.G.]

You do know if you send it back to Century, they'll just pull another mystery rifle out of the pile for you to enjoy or endure. Its not like they're gonna get out their protractor and astrolabe to repair the rifle you sent back.

If you fix it yourself, take it to the range and confirm the correct placement of the sight by test-firing until it centers-up.

Only after you have it centered-up, do you want to install new pins.

One degree movement of the Kalashnikov front sight will move your point of impact 7.45 minutes of angle.

Try to do it right, because just hitting it with a hammer is not mechanically sound, and is very imprecise.

When you are twisting on that Kalashnikov sight, keep these numbers in mind.

The sine of 1 degree is .01745. You multiply said sine by the measurement of the distance from the axis of the bore to the tip of the front sight, ~1.9”. This gives 0.03315” of lateral movement of the front sight per degree. The sight radius is 16 inches; this is .44444 yards. Therefore, you divide .03315 by .44444 to calculate the deflection per yard: this is 0.07458 inch per yard. Multiply by 100 and you get 7.45 inches per degree at 100 yards. The deflection at 2 degrees is actually slightly smaller than 2x the deflection at 1 degree, since the sine of 2 degrees is .034899; not quite 2 times the sine of 1 degree.

Soooooo, if your front sight is mis-timed by ONE degree, your mechanical zero on the 100-yard target will be off by 7.45 inches at the target.

Sounds to me like the rifle in question needs to be re-timed by about 2.5 degrees.

Remember, move the front sight in the OPPOSITE direction you want the point of impact to move.

 

[Jaenak]

My first thought on fixing a canted sight kinda made me chuckle just now. Take a hammer and lightly tap on it until it bends back into alignment. Remember though, I'm the one that adjusts the gaps on my spark plugs with a big carpenter's hammer and a flat headed screw driver. My dad just about killed me when he figured out I was doing it in such an unorthadox manner but he shut up really darn fast when I showed him they gapped perfectly and I didn't damage the plugs in any way.

 

[Mass-Diver]

I sent my WASR-10 back to CA for canted sights. I had put a new stock on the rifle, so I would have noticed if they had sent me another random rifle They repaired the rifle and it was back on my doorstep in about 2.5 weeks. As people have posted, I paid the shipping there (UPS) and they paid the return shipping, no charge for the repairs.

 

[Packman]

Thanks everybody, sorry for the delay in my response. I've been out of town for a few days.

I wasn't sure what it was before, but I talked to my friend yesterday, he says' it's a WASR. One question he had, after I told him about sending it in is this: Will Century send the same rifle fixed, or just a new one they've checked for good sights? I've heard conflicting reports on this, so I wasn't sure. Also, his has the side rail for a scope mount, and he wants to keep it JIC. If they send a new one, will he get the same configuration?

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

They will repair or replace, at their option. In my case they sent me a new rifle. In order to effect the repair on mine properly they would have had to replace the barrel anyway since that gas block was canted too, and you can't really relocate the gas port.

If they send you a different rifle, they certainly should send you one with the same features. Call Century and ask.

 

[nalioth]

Also, his has the side rail for a scope mount, and he wants to keep it JIC. If they send a new one, will he get the same configuration?

All WASRs come with the side scope rail.

 

[W.E.G.]

Several years ago, I went through three CETME's with Century before I finally got one that would actully eject. Different gun every time.

 

[nalioth]

Several years ago, I went through three CETME's with Century before I finally got one that would actully eject. Different gun every time.

... but that is because they couldn't fix the Cetme w/o tearing it down and/or rebuilding it.

The AK is much more easily adjusted.

 

[marklbucla]

the "old monkey wrench twist" method?

How likely is one to damage the barrel if attempting this?

 

[nalioth]

the "old monkey wrench twist" method?

How likely is one to damage the barrel if attempting this?

Depends on how you go about it. If you clamp your barrel securely and gently but firmly apply the monkey wrench, the pins should deform and hold it in the new position.

If you put your whole body into the monkey wrench, you'll probably break something.