Fl CCW question

[megatronrules]

I have a florida ccw permit and from what I was told by the permit people it is legal to keep my gun loaded "about my person" so to speak like in my glove box or center console. I had a cop tell me that if he pulls me over and my gun is anywhere except on my person that I was going to jail,he also said if I diddn't disclose I was armed at a traffic stop and for any reason he found I was going to jail because I was breaking the law He said the permit is to carry a loaded concealed gun on my person not in the vehical where I could ambush him with

My question is I know florida law says I do not have to disclose wether Iam armed or not. If a cop asks me i'll tell him about I won't lie to him but I won't volunteer the fact I have a gun either. I've been stopped for stupid things like speeding (going like 10 miles over the limit) or rolling through a stop sign when no one else is coming the other way. Both time the cop ran my drivers license and nothing mentioned about my CCW permit I guess they're not tied in here.

basicly is this right can a cop arrestes me if he thinks i'am breaking the law? Thiml being the key word here I mean I am not one to disrespect anyone least of all cops but if I'am treated like ???? by anyone they will get it right back. My question how do you arguee politely with a cop who thinks he knows that law period? I haven't had this come up but if I ever run into an LEO like this guy I wanna be prepared.

 

[CZ 75 BD]

A cop can arrest you...

for anything at all. Try www.packing.org , a great database for CCW information.

 

[45 ACP]

I am not a lawyer....

I see a lot of inconsistencies in what you were told as opposed to what FL state law actually is. FL has peaceable journey laws, so you wouldn't even need your CCW permit to carry a loaded firearm in your private vehicle provided it is "securely encased".

http://www.packing.org should clear up a lot of issues for you.

With regards to "breaking the law":

Unfortunately if a police officer determines that you have broken the law, they can take you into custody. It would then be up to the D.A. in determining whether or not to press charges against you.

I might suggest that if the officer is working alone, ask to speak with a supervisor before being taken into custody.

NEVER resist, you only make it harder to defend yourself later.

My suggestion would be to exercise your right to remain silent, be courteous and cooperative and have a good attorney! If you know what your rights are, it will work itself out.

 

[TBeck]

That police officer should probably find another line of work. Anybody that confused about the laws of Florida shouldn't be enforcing them.

Florida requires that loaded handguns in a car be "securely encased" and "not readily accessible." No CCW license is required to carry a loaded handgun in a car if these rules are followed.

Securely encased means in a holster or case (glove compartment also qualifies, but who wants a loaded gun rattling around loose in their glove box?). The holster must have some sort of retaining strap. I've found a zippered soft case works the best. The securely encased handgun does not need to be kept in the glovebox, although that makes the most sense. If the case is beneath the seat it is legal but awkward and the case can shift around a lot.

Not readily accessible means the gun cannot be placed in such a way as to be as accessible as if it were on your person. Attaching a holster to the steering column would violate the law since the weapon could be drawn easily and this would be readily accessible. This is where the "three steps" rule comes into play although you won't find the rule anywhere in the statutes. If you have a CCW license the gun can be readily accessible ON YOUR PERSON but not off your person and in the car.

The best way to stay legal is with some sort of strap-equipped holster or case in the glove box. The weapon is protected from dirt and abuse and out of sight. It also won't go flying around the passenger compartment if you have an accident or have to stop suddenly.

Florida does NOT require you to notify a LEO that you are armed. I have never had a problem when I have notified them, however; they didn't even ask to hold the gun or unload it. I leave the decision to notify up to you and the particular circumstances. One discreet way of "notifying" is to hand your CCW license over along with your drivers license. If the officer inquires further, cooperate in a friendly manner and don't do anything sudden or stupid like reach for the glove box. I'm not sure about what your rights are if you are asked directly about guns in the car. I would simply notify at that point if I had not already done so.

BTW, since I often carry a handgun in the glovebox, I attach my registration and insurance cards to the sun visor. That way I have no need to go rooting around and make a police officer any more nervous than they already are.

 

[NightWolfe]

as for in a car carry without a cwp ..

it must be in a snapped or zippered holster in the glovebox .. no exceptions .. 3 steps ..

if you have a cwp .. it's fine as long as it's concealed .. under the seat .. glovebox .. whatever .. doesn't have to be holstered ..

no you don't have to tell them your armed ..

if you get arrested for anything like that .. sue the city for as much as you can for harrasing you ..

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The easy argument...

if he pulls me over and my gun is anywhere except on my person that I was going to jail

If you DO NOT have a CCW and you have a gun laying on the seat beside you, should you be caught by a LEO, he arrests you for "carrying a concealed weapon without a license." If you DO have a CCW, the state has licensed you to carry a concealed weapon. How can you be arrested for "carrying a concealed weapon without a license" while in possession of a valid concealed weapon license?

 

[TBeck]

if you have a cwp .. it's fine as long as it's concealed .. under the seat .. glovebox .. whatever .. doesn't have to be holstered ..

Uh, no. Let's take a look at the relevent definitions and statutes directly from 790:

Definitions:

(2) "Concealed firearm" means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person. (italics mine)

(16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person. (italics mine)

(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

Statutes:
790.01 (2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punichable as provided in s. 775.082, 775.083, or s. 775.084

790.01 (3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06

790.25 (5) POSSESSION IN A PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.-Notwithstanding subsection (2) (of 790.25-me), it is lawful and it is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

So 790.25 (5) clearly distinguishes between carrying on or about one's person and carrying in a private conveyance. Stuffing the gun under the seat WILL be construed as carrying in a private conveyance. Perfectly legal, EXCEPT that the weapon is not securely encased and is also readily accessible, thus negating the protection of 790.25 (5) and making the act a third degree felony as described in 790.01. Your CCW license WILL NOT apply!

UNLESS THE WEAPON IN THE CAR IS PHYSICALLY ON OR ABOUT YOUR PERSON (INCLUDING BAGS, PURSES, BRIEFCASES) IT IS COVERED UNDER 790.25 (5). IF IT IS ON OR ABOUT YOUR PERSON IT IS COVERED UNDER 790.06. ONE OR THE OTHER, NOT BOTH.

 

[NightWolfe]

790.25 (5) does not apply to CWP holders .. and no where I see in the FL law say it does ..

 

[TBeck]

Exactly. 790.25 (5) applies to carrying a concealed handgun in your car, 790.06 applies to carrying a concealed handgun on your person. My point about your example is that putting an unholstered or uncased handgun under the seat of the car is a violation of 790.25 (5) and thus 790.01 since it is not securely encased and is readily accessible.

The CCW license would not prevent you from being charged with a violation of 790.01 since 790.06 only applies to firearms carried concealed on or about your person. It's a very fine distinction but given the attitude displayed by the police officer in megatronrules' initial post it would be enough to get the cuffs put on.

If the gun is one your person you need to fully comply with 790.06. If the gun is not on your person but in the car you need to fully comply with 790.25 (5). Violating part of 790.25 (5) and expecting 790.06 to protect you is a bad idea.

 

[NightWolfe]

790.001

(2) "Concealed firearm" means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.

(3)(a) "Concealed weapon" means any dirk, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person.

16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.

The way this statute reads looks like a concealed weapon would be considered to be about your person if it was under your seat .. which again makes it appear ok as long as it isn't visable ..

no without looking up case historys we won't know for sure .. because I interpret the statutes one way and you another .. if they would just write laws clearly we wouldn't need lawyers to interpret them for us ..

wether or not it's legal .. we can lets courts decide .. it's really not a good idea to have a firearm tumbling around inside your car anyway though ..

Thanks for the debate TBeck .. I'm always up for a good one

 

[TBeck]

I agree with the ambiguity, but since it's my freedom at stake I'll go with the most conservative interpretation.

Now if the said "On or UNDER your person..."

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Practical application...

I was stopped by a deputy sheriff for going the speed of light in a 30 mph zone. As he approached my car, I informed him I had a CCW and there was a handgun under my left leg. He had me step out of the car and he picked up my Glock 27. He then took my CCW and driver's license and proceeded to write me a healthy ticket. After getting a reply on my assorted licenses being valid, he returned my licenses and Glock 27 and let me go on my way.

 

[NightWolfe]

was the gun under the seat under your left leg .. or was it on the seat under your leg (sitting on it)?

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Sitting on it....

790.25 (5) POSSESSION IN A PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.-Notwithstanding subsection (2) (of 790.25-me), it is lawful and it is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.

Note that in this statute, "securely encased" and "not readily accessible" applies only to a person over 18 years of age without a license. It does not apply to a person possessing a CCW. It clearly states that by meeting these requirements, the non-CCW adult can possess a concealed firearm inside a vehicle. That in turn means that any handgun inside a vehicle is considered a concealed firearm.

It is absurd to believe a person that can legally carry a handgun concealed on their person would not be allowed to carry that same handgun under the seat.

 

[NightWolfe]

Thats how I've always read it .. glad the cop that stopped you didn't have a problem with it either ..

 

[TBeck]

Heaven forbid there should ever be absurdities in gun laws. The next officer, like the one that megatronrules spoke with, may not share your interpretation. Personally, I would prefer not to be the test case on a gray area in Florida's firearms statutes.

I posted what the statute says. You are responding with your interpretation. You may be right. You may not be. If you do it my way, there is absolutely no possibility for criminal prosecution.