neck sizing and over all length

[onehitwonder]

If I am neck sizing once fired brass do I need to b concerned with head spacing?

how to I figure out what over all length I need ?

do I need to full length size new brass or just neck size it?

 

[Steve H]

On new brass I full length size it the first time around just to make sure it's in spec.

 

[Bboomer]

You need to buy at the very least, a couple Reloading Manuals and follow the data listed. Otherwise you are placing yourself if not others at risk. Read, read my friend.

 

[onehitwonder]

I have a few manuals and may have over looked a few key parts. I just wondering if it makes a lot of difference in fl sizing vs neck sizing. I don't own any heavy barrel varmint guns just a range or hunting weight n medium weight guns.

 

[USSR]

If I am neck sizing once fired brass do I need to b concerned with head spacing?

Not if it was fired in the very same rifle. If the once fired brass was fired in another rifle, then you need to full length size it and have it fit the new rifle.

how to I figure out what over all length I need ?

You will find this info in your reloading manuals.

do I need to full length size new brass or just neck size it?

Neither, just chamfer the inside and outside of the neck and load em.

Don

 

[onehitwonder]

i think for now I will full length size and work up a load that way. it seems neck sizing has a list of cons that I'm not prepared to deal with. I have a few hand loads that were loaded for me that work well I was just considering neck sizing once fired brass to see if it made a difference in accuracy.

 

[Steve H]

well I was just considering neck sizing once fired brass to see if it made a difference in accuracy

it very well can make a difference

 

[onehitwonder]

I just recently got all my hardware to reload my own ammo and didn't want to purchase stuff I wont need like dies I wont use . I want to have accurate ammo but I also don't want to get in over my head. I believe i can load safely I have experience in precision instruments and machinery and a good technical ability. just needing some beginner advice.

 

[ranger335v]

"how to I figure out what over all length I need ?"

Keep it simple for now, stick to FL sizing and go slow. Don't expect too much nor worry about great accuracy as you begin. When you have gained enough experience to begin to refine your loads, there are other methods of obtaining a little better accuracy with different seating depths but save all that for later.

For now, you may seat to the crimping groove if your bullet has one, or use a factory load as a gage to set your seater plug or use a dial caliper and seat to the length the books suggested OAL.

Obviously, if your rifle's magazine requires a shorter OAL, function over rides any other measurement but that's really uncommon. And it's also really uncommon to be able to seat bullets so far out that they jam into the lands in a factory chamber. Thus, any common sense OAL setting is okay for a starting place as you learn to load.

.

 

[flashhole]

You will do fine. Keep asking questions and reading. I jumped into handloading in 1998. The mechanics are straightforward but the devil is in the details. Brass prep is important for both functionality and accuracy. I have FL and Neck size dies for every bottle neck cartridge I load except the 221 Fireball (can't find a Lee Collet Neck Die). Just remember max charges mean just that, max charges. Don't put yourself or others in jeopardy by testing the limits. There are too many variables that have the potential to create a bad situation.

General rules that can't get you into trouble.

FL size all brass that has not been fired in your gun (including new).

Trim the brass after sizing. I use the Lee Case Length Gage and Trimmer. It's inexpensive and you can't screw it up.

Spot check the fitment of your brass in your gun prior to loading to ensure it will chamber properly (pulling bullets is no fun).

Stay under max published data for the components you use. Some, but not all components are interchangable with the same load data so it's best to stay with data for your components.

Neck sizing brass that has been fired in your gun will extend the life of your brass and provide the best chance at improved accuracy. I like the Lee Collet Neck Die but they can sometimes be a bugger to adjust properly.

 

[dagger dog]

Onehit,

What are you shooting? If it's a bolt or single shot, break or falling block action you're ok with neck sizing only.

If the headspacing on your rifle is in spec, then all you have to do is neck size and keep the brass in spec as far as trimming.

As Steve H and Boomer stated if the brass came shot out of a different rifle you got to full length then shoot it in your rig , then you can neck size and gain some accuracy in doing so.

There should be no problems in doing this on your first loads, just as long as there were no excessive head space signs on your brass,(strech marks show as shiny rings),just make sure to set up your dies, as not to bump the shoulders back to far, you can smoke the case neck then watch how far the neck is sized , stop by tightening the lock ring before the die gets into the shoulder area. Once the brass gets to hard to chamber then run it through full length process and start the neck sizing over again.

 

[onehitwonder]

all this is really helpful i like to compile real world info before i start anything and nothing is better than knowledge from people who already have done it. I never have anyone load any hot loads for me and i have a tumbler, digital calipers, rcbs rock chucker press. digital scales, rcbs case trimmer , and case prep center. hornady and sierra manuals. plan on getting nosler manual next. I have a few loads that i know work and i have some factory ammo that I want to reproduce. all the info you guys give me is being compiled into a notebook for future reference. thanks , you guys are a big help

 

[onehitwonder]

Dagger,

all bolt actions ranging from savage to browning. no autos other than pistols but i dont plan on attempting pistol cartridges till i get a few rifle cartridges under my belt.

 

[Bitswap]

I'm not a big fan of full length sizing brass although it is the safest way to go.

You need to spend some money.

Take some once-fired brass from the rifle your reloading for and use a Headspace Guage on your mic. Take that measurement and 'bump the shoulder' 0.001" with a body sizing die and see if it chambers... it should.

So, how do you determine how much to bump the shoulder? The hard way is to get turn the body die out until you get it right. The easy way is with redding competition shellholders... do yoursef a favor and spend the 40 clams for these holders.

That should be optimum for THAT rifle. Bump more if your other rifles don't like it.

Of course, you'll need to neck size now... but if your in a crunch, use your regular 'sizing die' and use the same process.

Don't forget to trim....

 

[45ACPUSER]

Neck sizing will increase your brass life. If you really want precision ammo I would encourage your use of Redding Type S Bushing dies following the directions for measuring for the appropriate bushing size for the brass you are using!

 

[flashhole]

I'm a firm believer in keeping it simple. Body sizing dies and competition shell holders might be a little much for a beginner. He needs to learn the basic mechanics and understand what makes a difference in the kind of shooting he will be doing. Neck sizing with a Collet Die is simple and provides meaningful results. It's a good first step beyond FL sizing.

 

[Bitswap]

I'm a firm believer in keeping it simple. Body sizing dies and competition shell holders might be a little much for a beginner. He needs to learn the basic mechanics and understand what makes a difference in the kind of shooting he will be doing. Neck sizing with a Collet Die is simple and provides meaningful results. It's a good first step beyond FL sizing.

Simple, yes, dangerous NO!!!

It is obvious to me the user needs to understand the concept of headspace. Neck sizing alone will get you through a few rounds with good accuracy, but discounting the headspace measurement is wreckless.

Ok, don't bump the shoulder, then just FL size, but he'll end up with 10 reloads from the brass where he'll get 20 or more if he does it right. These sights that say neck sizing is enough don't know what they're talking about.

I'll bet dimes to dollars he isn't even checking for headspace separation. Maybe he should go 'back to the basics'.

 

[onehitwonder]

i have not yet even reloaded my first shell. Thats why I'm asking first. and factory shells are fine for the shooting I do I just want to shoot cheaper and maybe a lil more accurately. So no u are right I have not measured anything mainly because I have not loaded anything. I just want to reproduce factory spec loads.

 

[ranger335v]

Bits: "I'll bet dimes to dollars he isn't even checking for headspace separation."

I'll bite. What's "headspace" seperation? I've been handloading and a hobbist gunsmith since '65 and never heard of that term.

 

[flashhole]

I believe what bitswap is referring to is the possibility of overworking the brass by FL sizing only that results in a weakened section of the case just above the base. I think the theory is -

excess thinning of the brass in the case head area is caused by brass growth during firing,

FL resizing will cause more resizing than is needed for proper chamber fit (especially on a generous chamber), the result of the resizing being length growth,

then - trimming the excess length due to brass growth during firing/resizing, this is brass that would normally be in the body of the cartridge providing integrity of the case,

going through the process (resizing and trimming) again and again will eventually cause the case to grow very thin in the case head area and literally separate into two pieces when fired (clearly an undesirable situation).

I think occurance of this is more likely with loads at the max end of the charge range and FL resizing only.

Maybe bitswap has a differenet definition but this is what I believe he is talking about.

In the many thousands of rounds I have loaded I have not experienced head space separation. Fire-formed brass that is neck sized only, especially with a Lee Collet Neck Die that compresses the neck against a mandrel and has zero possibility of stretching the brass, can be loaded many times. Work hardening of the brass is unavoidable, even when neck sizing only, so to further extend the life of the brass you can anneal it. Eventually it all ends up in the scrap bin but my method works well for me.

Maybe there is some value in sharing what dies pepople use.

For all my bottle neck cases (with the exception of my 221 Fireball) I usually end up with a set of FL sizing dies, a Lee Collet Neck Die (not made for Fireball), a Redding Body Die, a sliding-sleeve seat die like the Forster Ultra Seat Die or Redding Competition Seat Die (Hornady makes a good seat die that can be outfitted with the micrometer adjust).

 

[USSR]

Bits: "I'll bet dimes to dollars he isn't even checking for headspace separation."

I'll bite. What's "headspace" seperation? I've been handloading and a hobbist gunsmith since '65 and never heard of that term.

Probably talking about using the bent paperclip routine to check for a "groove" on the inside of the case in the web area, indicating a case head separation in the near future.

Don

 

[SSN Vet]

head space seperation ???

are you talking about case head seperation?

any way, the guys asking about how to prep. once fired brass and factory new brass and he's asking before he does anything.

So why are people critisizing the guy and jumping all over him becasue he's "not even checking for head space seperation"?

Full length size the brass prior to shooting it for the first time in you rifle.

keep track of which brass has been fire formed for which rifle and then play around with neck sizing if you feel the need.

don't load max. loads (at least not when you're getting started).

know what over pressure signs look like and what stretched brass on the verge of case head seperation look like.

load small batches when testing new loads and chamber check your first few samples....because pulling bullets isn't the goal of the "game"

have fun, ask questions, use good judgement and error on the side of safety.

it''s not that hard to have fun re-loading and to safely make your own ammo.

 

[KI.W.]

I use Lee de Luxe-diesets. There are Collet neck sitzing- and ordinary sitzing-
dies.

 

[flashhole]

SSN Vet - yes, case head separation, I mis-spoke (hope I don't sound like a NY politician who ran for cover under sniper fire with her daughter in pursuit)

I agree, there is a lot of pleasure to be derived from reloading and it's not that hard to get quality ammo.

The hidden benefit is it gives onehitwonder the opportunity to start his man cave.

 

[ranger335v]

flachhole: "SSN Vet - yes, case head separation, I mis-spoke .."

I first assumed that's what you meant but, since you were so concerned about the techicalities of reloading, I thought perhaps not. Since "asueming" I understand someone can lead to mis-communications and cross talk, I have learned to get it straight if I can.