Flag your thumb, or how I learned to stop worrying and love the Glock

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1KPerDay

1KPerDay

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I’ve been trying for a few years to get my skills at shooting my Glock 22/17/23/19 as well as I do my other pistols and nothing has really worked. I’ve tried different grip techniques and triggers and practice and push/pull and dynamic tension from the shoulders and blah blah but at speed I still would consider my abilities to hit the steel plates “second tier” compared to how I do with SIGs and Berettas and M&Ps and 1911s and CZs. I would still miss more of them, and miss inexplicably and stand there befuddled and shaking my head, when shooting my Glocks. The thing that really bothered me is that I kinda like the look and the heritage and the function and engineering of the Glock But it pissed me off that it supposedly required me to grip and shoot it completely differently from every other pistol I own.

Well it seems I’ve found something that works for me with an acceptably minimal adjustment. Flagging and then folding down my strong hand thumb.

It’s described here in the first couple of minutes.



I always thought this guy’s grip looked funny but he shoots well and his logic was sound enough for me to give it a try. Whaddayaknow... I went from clang clang whiff clang whiff what the hell? To clang clang clangclang clang clang clang cla-clang. I shot a 32-round mag followed by a 17 round mag as fast as I would normally shoot my SIG or M&P at the plates at 18 yards today and maybe missed one. Which for me with the midsize frame Glocks has basically never happened before.

I don’t have to worry about any weird push/pull grip or trigger finger placement or sacrificing roosters to Gaston. I just use my normal thumbs-forward, moderately aggressive grip but make sure to really crank my right thumb up and get it sliced by the slide and that appears to satisfy the Glock gods. I may try an aftermarket beaver tail (Gen 3), which before now I never saw the point of.

Anyway, not sure why this is running through my head at 4am after my son woke up and puked all over himself and everything else, but thought some might be interested in this technique to start shooting Glocks straight. Rock on
 
I like Glocks, I shoot them pretty well, I like shooting them but in my case for some reason there is always something I like more to have, so Glocks jump a place down in my wish list every time.
 
An interesting take on the grip. I can no longer test it, at least not with my own pistol, but I'll try it the next time I get my hands on a Glock.
 
Yep, that sounds about right, just what I do. The high grip and "flagging the thumb" comes naturally from riding the safety on 1911s as part of my grip. I tend to get so high that I require a beaver tail or I get pretty nasty slide bite.

The firmer off hand grip and "push pull" also was how I stopped shooting left myself, and occasionally especially after a long session I'll start wandering left as I get lazy with my offhand, and have to firm it back up. My biggest issue is if I haven't been shooting enough I tend to break my wrists and push my first shot low when coming out of the holster, which is annoying but workable unless I'm trying to hit 2" or 3x5" cards.
 
^^^ That's basically the Bob Vogel grip (3-time world champion and 23-time national champion ).
I shoot several Glocks, mostly G34's. But also CZ's and Tanfoglio's. Having to change my grip style for each particular gun isn't acceptable.
Yeah, my Glock's POI is to the left. To compensate for this, I simply drift the rear sight to the right....problem solved.

If you're interested, here's how Vogel holds his Glock...
 
Vogel's a robot. I'm sure he's pressing in/wedging a lot harder than I am. And his support hand is basically covering the frame. His support hand is rotated far forward with his thumb actually pointing down.
 
1KPerDay said:
Whaddayaknow... I went from clang clang whiff clang whiff what the hell? To clang clang clangclang clang clang clang cla-clang. I shot a 32-round mag followed by a 17 round mag as fast as I would normally shoot my SIG or M&P at the plates at 18 yards today and maybe missed one. Which for me with the midsize frame Glocks has basically never happened before.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this. I am going to give it a try.
 
Every now and again someone rediscovers basics and how to apply them.

People's hands can certainly vary, though. I've seen shooters experience a "gap" above the web of their hands under a grip frame. Thumb position and elevation may address the problem for some shooters, but gripping the the gun high enough solves it, too. ;) I remember one instructor long ago explaining that the pistol's grip should be equally supported regarding the positioning of the thumb and index finger's base knuckles. The tip of the thumb could be adjusted to suit the individual and the particular pistol being used (as some controls, and reaching them under speed, changed among makes/models).

I've also seen "new" 1911 shooters (coming from other pistols) discover their normal master hand grip didn't adequately press their palm against a grip safety. Some blamed the gun for the shortcoming of their "learned" grip, and some acknowledged that their previous choice of pistol had simply allowed them to "get by" with an unrecognized shortcoming in their grip. Well, you cut your teeth learning to shoot Magnum revolvers, and getting "enough palm" aligned behind the backstrap becomes second nature. ;)

Filling the exposed space of the offside grip frame left uncovered by the master hand, by applying the palm of your support hand against the exposed grip, is an old technique that helps prevent displacement of recoil force to the offside (and having the gun shift/torque under recoil). It just evenly applies pressure in a 2-handed grip and keeps the recoiling pistol going straight back and then straight forward. The length (and girth) of each individual shooter's fingers (and palm reach) can require adjustment in optimizing the 2-handed grip. Same as it's always been done. Sometimes "one-size-fits-all" doesn't quite work out, and this is where an experienced instructor can help a less experienced shooter learn some flexibility in application of a tried and true technique. :)

Me? I've long worked to develop and maintain a 2-ahnded grip technique that conforms to shooting revolvers, 1911's, TDA pistols and DAO-ish pistols. The greater grip angle of the Glock just required a bit more adjustment in the wrist lock to compensate for the 23 (approx) degree angle versus the more traditional 18 degree angle, but I learned to shoot SA revolvers before I ever became interested in DA revolvers, so that was a skill acquired long ago.

It's a handgun. Hold it so you can shoot it controllably and accurately. Kind of like learning to perform different hand strikes/punches, and being able to do them under duress and speed. Learn it right and practice until it's first nature. Not something usually learned by being self-taught, though. An experienced teacher is mostly needed.

Just some thoughts.
 
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In that last video, Vogel shoots a 0.12 split. If one could maintain that rate of fire, it works out to 9 shots a second, 10 shots in 1.08 seconds. That's crazy fast.

I've tried to use his grip, but I just don't have enough range of motion in my wrists to turn my support hand down as far as he does. I can do it, but it causes me a significant amount of pain that gets worse the longer I try to hold it. It also causes the gun to torque muzzle up and to my strong hand side and it hurts even worse when I try to pull the muzzle back down to get the sights aligned.
 
JohnKSa said:
In that last video, Vogel shoots a 0.12 split. If one could maintain that rate of fire, it works out to 9 shots a second, 10 shots in 1.08 seconds. That's crazy fast.

I've tried to use his grip, but I just don't have enough range of motion in my wrists to turn my support hand down as far as he does. I can do it, but it causes me a significant amount of pain that gets worse the longer I try to hold it. It also causes the gun to torque muzzle up and to my strong hand side and it hurts even worse when I try to pull the muzzle back down to get the sights aligned.
Click to expand...

I get about half way there with my Glock 19 because there's just not enough grip for my offhand to fit normally, especially working out of the holster.

I might just try that some, see if it does anything for me (and if I can swing such a downsweep of the thumb).
 
Hmmm. A trip to the range to rent a Glock might be in order. I've been wanting to pick up a new autoloader and had my heart set on another CZ, either P07 or P09. Although the Beretta APX is another one.
Glocks just don't fit my hands very well. I have large hands but they're more palm than finger and are probably better suited to farm work than anything else. But I'll give that grip a go. I have a problem with how the Glock's grip falls in my hand and the palm swell at the base feels like its not letting me wrap around the grip enough. In fact, that's why I sold the Glock 20 I had for a little while. I loved the 10mm but hated the grip and felt like I had to squeeze way too hard on the pistol to keep it from jumping out of my hands.
 
tarosean said:
A more formal explanation. I've used his grip technique for many years. I love how it locks out everything for Glocks. I dont get the complete lockout on my other pistols though. However, it still works for me.

Click to expand...


Thanks a bunch for this. I had never seen that before. I am going to try that the next time I go shoot. Just holding the gun at home this way makes it more steady. Curious to see how I shoot with that grip. I book marked the video for future watching.

I have much smaller hands, so my grip is a little different than his. But I am coming as close to it as I can.

I guess if you do it long enough, then you can pick up the gun and get into that grip faster and faster. RIght now, it takes me a while to get into that grip, as I have never used it before.
 
Since I had Lasik all of my open-sighted guns shoot left for me; shotgun, rifle, handgun, centerfire or rimfire, revolvers SA or DA, autos like 1911's or Sigs or Glocks, Ruger LCP, etc. I had it in 2005 and I've needed to drift all my sights, or in the case of a fixed sight gun hold a bit right for it, to compensate.

I'll give this a whorl next range trip, maybe it'll solve this issue and push the POI more to the right.

It's amazing what goes through the tired mind when the kid is yarfing all over the bedroom and you're staggering around while carrying his bedding to the laundry...looks like this was bugging your subconscious mind and it needed to be fixed:).

Thanks for the post! :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
Decided to try the tactic of focusing on the "pinching" motion and focusing my off hand pressure in the palm instead of more on the front strap/main hand as suggested in the video.

Can't say it felt any better for recoil, but it really does help lock the gun in place and really helped keep my first shot right where it needed to be, as I have had a tendency to break low an inch or two on my first shot. Kept my FAST drills consistently at the 4.5-5 I usually am at, but kept my first two shots much tighter on the 3.5 x 5" card.

I'm sure with a bunch more dry fire and another range trip or two I'll be pretty happy.

Certainly feel it in the forearms though, been working on grip strength lately and after only 100 rounds today (mostly in pairs and triplets) I was feeling the forearms.
 
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