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Fla's new no-retreat law works just fine..

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by DunedinDragon, Nov 22, 2005.

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  1. DunedinDragon

    DunedinDragon Member

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    It seems the new controversial "no-retreat" law that went into effect in Florida last month has seen it's first test and passed with flying colors.

    Evidently this poor guy, who has some mental problems, who was being harassed and teased by his neighbors, had been complaining to the police who had done nothing about it. From what I gathered on the TV news, the police have decided not to charge Devries as he was well within his rights under the new "no retreat" law given the fact that it was determined his neighbors were standing on his doorstep, pounding on his door, and holding Tiki lamps at that time of the shooting.

    When the shooting first occurred, the three assailants told the police they were out in the street when Devries just opened fire on them. Thankfully, the forensics proved otherwise.

    My advice to Mr Devries, get a bigger caliber gun...



    Shooting of three ends in surrender; [NORTH PINELLAS Edition]
    JACOB H. FRIES, SHANNON TAN. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Nov 19, 2005. pg. 1.B
    Abstract (Document Summary)
    Those wounded - Samantha Frances Sipka, 16; Jason Thomas Biaso, 19; and Mark Eric Hoover, 46 - sustained injuries that weren't considered life-threatening. Sipka was in stable condition and Hoover in fair condition at Bayfront Medical Center in St. Petersburg, authorities said. Biaso, who was shot in the shoulder, was treated and released.

    Physical evidence uncovered at the scene, however, indicated they had been on Devries' doorstep - not the street - when Devries fired, [Marianne Pasha] said. Detectives also learned there had been a fourth person present, Miles Bailey Jr., 23, further supporting Devries' account of the shooting.

    The elder Devries, who visited his son after he was taken into custody, said his son had felt the need to defend himself Friday morning. The neighbors had been banging on the door and windows and Devries thought they were trying to get inside, his father said.

    Full Text (996 words)
    Copyright Times Publishing Co. Nov 19, 2005
    Jeffrey Devries had long complained the neighbors were out to get him.

    He told police he had been the victim of various crimes, from battery to burglary. Officers had gone to his Beverly Circle home eight times this year.

    So when he saw four people on his porch carrying tiki torches about 2 a.m. Friday, he feared they were trying to break in, Pinellas sheriff's detectives said.

    He fired six shots through the front door of his home at 1818 Beverly Circle, wounding three of the people, said sheriff's spokeswoman Marianne Pasha.

    As squad cars and ambulances raced to the scene, Devries, a retired University of South Florida campus police sergeant, barricaded himself inside, triggering a standoff with authorities that would last more than seven hours.

    Those wounded - Samantha Frances Sipka, 16; Jason Thomas Biaso, 19; and Mark Eric Hoover, 46 - sustained injuries that weren't considered life-threatening. Sipka was in stable condition and Hoover in fair condition at Bayfront Medical Center in St. Petersburg, authorities said. Biaso, who was shot in the shoulder, was treated and released.

    The three of them initially told investigators they had been walking in the street, carrying the torches, when all of a sudden, shots rang out and they were hit, Pasha said.

    Physical evidence uncovered at the scene, however, indicated they had been on Devries' doorstep - not the street - when Devries fired, Pasha said. Detectives also learned there had been a fourth person present, Miles Bailey Jr., 23, further supporting Devries' account of the shooting.

    Confronted with the discrepancies, one of the four admitted they had been at the door at the time of the shooting, reading signs Devries had posted on the door, said Pasha. She declined to identify the person.

    Sipka and Hoover declined to comment through a hospital spokesman. Biaso also declined to answer questions. Efforts to reach Bailey were unsuccessful.

    No charges had been filed late Friday.

    "There are various levels of conflicts in their statements," Pasha said, "so there's still more work for the investigators to do."

    The first 911 call came at 1:51 a.m.

    "I heard the gunshots - boom, boom, boom!" said neighbor Ken List, 50. "Then screaming, like the people were trying to run."

    Jennifer Lechner, 46, another neighbor, went outside and ducked behind a bush to take a look. She heard screams from Sipka, who was shot in the jaw and thigh.

    She saw Hoover, who was shot in the arm, yelling from the street at responding officers, "We're here. We're here. The gunman's next door."

    Both Clearwater police and Pinellas County sheriff's deputies responded because the street lies on the city-county line. The sheriff's SWAT team eventually replaced Clearwater's team and resumed attempts to communicate with Devries, Bordner said.

    List, through his window, saw camouflaged deputies approach Devries' house, then retreat, again and again for hours in the darkness.

    "They were very methodical," he said. "For a while, I thought they were going to storm the back of the house."

    Finally, after hours talking with negotiators over the phone, Devries surrendered at 9:30 a.m. As he walked out his door, he ignored some of the deputies' commands. He was struck with a Taser and shot with a rubber bullet, Bordner said.

    Devries, who wore blue sweat pants and a T-shirt, was then handcuffed and taken to a hospital for evaluation.

    "He looked very docile," List recalled. "He just looked worn down."

    In recent weeks, Devries had called 911 and e-mailed police with increasing frequency, claiming that he had been the victim of various crimes, Clearwater police spokesman Wayne Shelor said. Officers responded to his house but found nothing to substantiate his claims.

    In April, he told police someone was using "transponders" to harass him at home, reports show. Last month, he said neighbors had developed a way to send voices through his electrical wiring. Among the voices he heard inside his house, he told officers, was that of fiction writer Stephen King.

    Jeffrey Devries worked as a police officer at USF's St. Petersburg campus from 1988 to 1998 when he retired as a sergeant, a university spokeswoman said. His father said his son left the job when he developed thyroid cancer.

    "That really devastated him," said Stanley Devries, 73.

    The elder Devries, who visited his son after he was taken into custody, said his son had felt the need to defend himself Friday morning. The neighbors had been banging on the door and windows and Devries thought they were trying to get inside, his father said.

    "They were obviously making a lot of noise and were very threatening," he said.

    Stanley Devries said police didn't take his son's complaints seriously and seemed to think his son was making things up.

    "They don't have a caring attitude," he said of Clearwater police.

    Stanley Devries said people in the neighborhood had harassed his son before. About two months ago, his son was outside testing his new video camera when two neighbors came in front of him, a third behind him, and knocked him onto the asphalt, Stanley Devries said.

    Neighbors said Hoover, Sipka and Bailey had moved next door to Devries in April, though no one was aware of any tensions between the two homes.

    After the shooting Friday, Beverly Circle was blocked off from traffic as detectives examined Devries' door and front yard. Bleary- eyed residents who had been awake since 2 a.m. recounted the strange episode.

    "It was something out of a movie," List said, "but it was so real."

    Times researcher Caryn Baird contributed to this report.
     
  2. Wiley

    Wiley Member

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    Well, even the mentaly unstable have a right to be secure in thier persons and property.

    I would hope he sues them for a new front door.
     
  3. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

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    Not exactly a text book case for testing the law.

    Anybody who claims to hear Stephen King over the wires in their home is seriously unstable and needs help.
    Not the best case for gun ownership.
     
  4. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    What? No pitchforks?
     
  5. Firethorn

    Firethorn Member

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    Besides the mental issues, Florida didn't require retreat from the home even before the new law.

    I could see a new law pushing for a little more power to 'assist' those with mental issues. It is a tough call though. I'm certainly not qualified to write the legislation. I can probably critique it, but I don't have the basis to even start.
     
  6. AnthonyRSS

    AnthonyRSS Member

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    While he may be mentally unstable, his actions before/during the shooting seem justified. If somebody was at my door at 2am holding torches, they may be shot. Thats probably what the sign said.
     
  7. NineseveN

    NineseveN member

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    What drunken monkey wrote that garbage? I could hardly wade through it. Aside from that, not sure what I think of that shooting yet...
     
  8. ceetee

    ceetee Member

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    In the FWIW Department:

    Anybody who has played around a bit with CB radios knows how simple it is to turn the pots all the way up, causing the unit to put out way more energy than is legal. If you do, anything you brodcast gets picked up by any kind of wiring at all. We used to have our voices coming out of TV's, answering machines, AM/FM's, Cassettes, CD's.

    If you're pushing enough wattage, (not that I would know personally... this is all illegal) you can talk through anything with a speaker. The speaker doesn't even have to be powered up. I can easily see the man's house talking to him. I've done it. (In theory, that is.)
     
  9. Ukraine Train

    Ukraine Train Member

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    A couple weeks ago we had CB traffic come through the TV and my roommate's stereo, it was kinda weird, but can obviously happen.
     
  10. rick_reno

    rick_reno member

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    or a thinner door.

    A tinfoil hat would take care of those voices from the various SHTF threads here could help with the design.

    He's lucky the wires are just talking to him. I was dating a woman years ago and her ex-husband (a lawyer - so fitting) thought that electrical devices were anal probing him. It was quite a show to watch him cross the kitchen, spinning wildly while covering his butt. He was nuttier than a fruitcake and had torn all the wiring out of his BMW, we had to have it towed away one day after calling him a cab. He never got locked up, he had enough old family money to avoid problems with the authorities.
     
  11. LynnMassGuy

    LynnMassGuy Member

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    As far as I'm concerned that incident makes the law look stupid. That situation is just the scenario the gun grabbers were waitng for. A nutcase shoots a unarmed 16year old girl through his front door. Yeah, thats going to play out nicely. If this is what the law was for, don't expect it to be around too long. Piss poor use of a firearm in my opinion.

    Regards
    John
     
  12. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    But the 16 y/o tralk was NOT unarmed. She had one of our species first weapons in hand. Fire. Along with the assistance of several adult males for what ever else may come.

    Long string of harrasment, little apparent response by those charged to keep the peace.

    Now they show on the door step in the middle of the night, banging on the doors and windows while bearing torches.

    Are they just being a pain again, or do them mean to burn ya out this time?

    What should he have done LynnMassGuy? Wait until his house is in flames?

    In my view, this is a justified use of force against some wannabe goblins.
     
  13. LynnMassGuy

    LynnMassGuy Member

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    No, of course not but somewhere between doing nothing and unloading through his front door there is a more resonable response. Is there any evidence that their intent was to burn the house down? Is there any evidence that they attempted to break in? Do you really think they were banging on his front door to tell him they were going to burn his house down. Wouldn't it have been a lot easier to just do it if that were their intention.

    Look, I could care less about the bad guys but if we want to see this law put in effect in more places this isn't a good example of how it should be used.

    So, they got shot for standing on his steps with a tiki torchs. I'm sorry but you can't convince me deadly force is a resonable response.

    And...

    Aren't you supposedto be sure of your target and whats behind it before firing? How do you accomplish that when firing through your front door? He's lucky he didn't kill a neighbor.

    Sorry folks, ra-ra all you want about it, this was an iresponsible use of a firearm by a mental incompetent all day long and a handful more will insure the castle law is not in place any where else.

    Regards
    John
     
  14. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    I hope I raise my daughter better than to be bothering old people at 2:00 am when she's a teenager.:scrutiny:
     
  15. Riktoven

    Riktoven Member

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    My next door neighbor used to have this massive 3 story CB tower on the side of his house. We were always hearing faint, and somtimes not so faint coms traffic comming through every quality speaker in the house. Called the FCC, who are the laziest most unhelpfull a holes since CB guy, and they did nothing. I somtimes thought killing this guy in his sleep was the only way to 'make the voices stop', so I can relate to the schizo gunman :)
     
  16. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Good shoot.

    What are they doing at 2 AM at his door?

    :confused:
     
  17. AnthonyRSS

    AnthonyRSS Member

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    +1 Spot

    Do you shoot somebody who has a gun pointed at you, or do you wait until you know if they are going to shoot you or not?
     
  18. LynnMassGuy

    LynnMassGuy Member

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    I hear ya' but regrettably, 16 year olds do crazy stuff, not just the ones who were raised poorly. How old is the old burning bag of poo on the front steps trick. I think my grandfathers generation came up with that one.

    Take tiki torch out of the equation and add burning bag of poo in the front steps.

    Still a shooting offense? Maybe it is. To me it ain't.

    Regards
    John
     
  19. LynnMassGuy

    LynnMassGuy Member

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    Who had a gun? A tiki torch a gun is not.
     
  20. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    But that was not this equation. There were a whole bunch of people, with torches, on his porch. Were they sitting there singing Kumbya, or were they pounding on the door -- while holding torches -- maybe tormenting him with taunts or threats. Granted the last part is speculation. But even if the only factors are large group and torches and 2:00 am, that is either recklessly moronic behavior or reasonably perceptable as a threat.
     
  21. NineseveN

    NineseveN member

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    A porch is private property, is it not? At 2AM, uninvited, with torches, banging on the door...hmmm...


    Then the fact that they lied and said they were on the sidewalk when they got shot tells me something about their motive...it doesn't sound like it was good.
     
  22. LynnMassGuy

    LynnMassGuy Member

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    Yup. Absolutely, but a threat deserving of deadly force? He could have killed all of them had he been a better shot or used a more powerful weapon for essentially standing on his steps and being dingbats. Some sort of retaliation was certaninly in order and the adults certainly should have known better. It's way to sketchy. I mean come on, this guy thought people were putting voices in his apartment.

    Let's not forget this line....

    "In recent weeks, Devries had called 911 and e-mailed police with increasing frequency, claiming that he had been the victim of various crimes, Clearwater police spokesman Wayne Shelor said. Officers responded to his house but found nothing to substantiate his claims."
     
  23. LynnMassGuy

    LynnMassGuy Member

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    http://news.tbo.com/news/MGBSZX5U8GE.html
    "Devries reportedly told police he fired six shots through his door when he heard someone pounding on it. Police previously received a call that Devries' home had been burglarized, authorities said."
    http://www.tampabays10.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=21477
    ""Mr. Devries said he saw the four on his front porch and said they were pounding on his door," detectives said. "Concerned and afraid they were trying to enter his house, he shot six rounds through the front door.""
    http://www.tampatrib.com/FloridaMetro/MGBSM0TL6GE.html
    "It did jibe with the account of Devries, who said he fired through his front door six times when he heard someone pounding on it, Pasha said."

    Firing through your door because someone is pounding on it? There are legit reasons to pound on a door at 2AM. Not many, but there are. Granted this wasn't one but it could have been.

    Regards
    John
     
  24. NineseveN

    NineseveN member

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    And there are legit reasons to fire through a door, not many, but there are. Granted, you feel this wasn't one of them, but it could have been.
     
  25. bogie

    bogie Member

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    I've got an idea... It's just going to involve planting a whole buncha speakers, and a few books on tape...
     
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