Flat Mainspring Housings, Elongated Triggers

[madcowburger]

Why, oh why does *every* newly manufactured 1911 clone I see in the shops have (1) a flat mainspring housing, and (2) an elongated, usually skeletonized trigger?

I wear a size Medium glove. I much prefer the regular "short" trigger they *used* to come standard with. The "long" trigger forces me to "monkey grip" the gun, which hurts recoil control, affects shot placement, and can induce stoppages.

Now you have to pay extra and wait months or years for some big name custom pistolsmith (who sits in his office eating and watching soap operas while his gnomes do the work) to replace the long trigger with a short one.

The gun makers seem to assume that everyone who wants a 1911 is six-foot-six and has Sasquatch-like hands that can palm a basketball. Some of us are more like 5'10" and don't. If we had hands like that we wouldn't bother with guns. We'd just wring all our foes' necks, or knock their heads together till all their gold teeth fall out.

And why the reversion to the flat mainspring housing? Early (WW I-era) users found that feature caused the weapon to point low, so it was replaced with the more comfortable and ergonomic curved mainspring housing in the 1911A1 version, which I also prefer, and which also costs a lot of extra money and time to get now, if it can be gotten at all.

And none of them seem to have a lanyard ring/loop. I liked that feature too.

What gives?

MCB

 

[Ian]

I like the longer triggers, but I agree with you about the mainspring housings. I bought a Sistema that had been retrofitted with both a long trigger and a flat housing - and I ended up putting the original housing back in.

An added plus is that the lanyard loop on that 1964 manufacture mainspring housing looks like it's een used as a hammer on several occasions. Gives the gun character.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I have small hands and prefer the flat housing and short triggers.

Why have makers gone towards flat housing and long triggers? Marketing I suppose.

 

[R.H. Lee]

My experience and preference is exactly the opposite. My hand measures exactly 7 1/2" from wrist to index (trigger) fingertip. I like the flat MSH and long trigger.

 

[stealthmode]

i need a long trigger so the tip of my trigger finger doesnt hit my thumb. i like the arched mainspring housing it just feels more comfortable to me.

 

[Old Fuff]

madcowburger:

I have some good news. Both kinds of triggers and mainspring housings interchange, and you can mix & match anyway you want.

Further both the triggers and mainspring housings can be user installed, with the exception of some "match" triggers that require a little metal be shaved off of the fingerpiece.

If you go to gun shows look around, used parts that are entirely satisfactory except for a little finish wear can often be purchased for little outlay. You'll find that making a switch isn't as expensive as you think.

 

[shep854]

I prefer short/arched. DIY isn't hard, if you have a good illustrated manual. For me, the hard part was finding the short trigger. I found a local with a bunch left over from guns he put long triggers into, and swapped with him.

 

[alarmguy]

Get an SA Milspec. It comes with short and arched. Also, of the six 1911's I have, the SA is the best fitted gun.. Practically no slop in frame slide fit and the barrel locks up good and tight front and back.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Now you have to pay extra and wait months or years for some big name custom pistolsmith (who sits in his office eating and watching soap operas while his gnomes do the work) to replace the long trigger with a short one.

or you could go and buy a short trigger from numrich and install it yourself. it takes all of fifteen minutes.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Having built an M1911A1 from scratch, with unfinished slide and frame, this thread seems odd. It's very easy to change triggers and mainsprings on an M1911A1.

You can get mainspring housings and triggers for peanuts and set your gun up the way you want. You can have flat-long, flat-short, arched-long and arched-short.

 

[madcowburger]

Well, gentlemen, thank you all for the advice. But I am not a good enough gunsmith to go monkeying with the lockwork of a 1911.

Field stripping I can handle, no problem. I even figured out how to get the firing pin and extractor out of a Series 80 Colt Government Model without breaking anything.

But I only ever tried to *detail* strip one .45 auto. That was a Llama, in the late Seventies. I never quite got it put back together right. I finally wound up taking it to a local so-called gunsmith, a captain on the local city police force. About all he succeeded in doing that I had not was to render the gun uncontollably full-auto. Oh yeah, and the thumb safety didn't work anymore.

That wasn't really what I wanted, and I wound up *selling* him the wrecked gun, which I'd paid about $225 for two or three years before, for $75. So now I don't try to detail strip .45 autos anymore. I'm wary about "gunsmiths" too.

I saw a Springfield Armory "Mil-Spec" 1911 a few months ago. At first I thought it was just what I was looking for.

But then I discovered it was "New Jersey and Maryland Compliant." That was, it wasn't**really* "mil-spec," but had some sort of crazy internal "child safety lock" *built right into it, so that you needed this little key to "turn it on" (or "off"). The gadget even interfered with removal and insertion of the magazine. This was about as far from what I wanted as could be imagined. I was looking for a gun that somebody from sixty or eighty years ago would find nothing surprising about, except maybe better sights.

And I think I heard somewhere that *all* new Springfield Armory pistols are to be ruined in this same way, with the addition of the *internal* "child safety locks."

I *hope* that is not true, but if it is, Springfield Armory just lost me as a customer altogether.

MCB

 

[Old Fuff]

madcowburger:

If you change the mainspring housing on a Springfield the "for the children" lock will be gone - kill two birds with one stone.

Look up recent threads posted by Tuner. Some are Springfield specific, while others cover 1911 style pistols in general. Tuner will walk you through a full detail strip, which can be done without tools. You can also buy well illustrated books and/or video tapes that show the procedure. None of this is particularly difficult. All you need is a little education, and your pistol will be exactly what you like and want. The changes you propose do not require gunsmithing, only an exchange of parts.

 

[1911Tuner]

Switch and Swap

Howdy Madcowburger,(Don't even wanna guess hiow that nic
came to be... )

The lockwork of a 1911 ain't exactly a swiss watch, but there are
a couple of small details that are critical in the reassembly...and
without knowing, I'd be willing to be that your problem was a common
one with first-time detail strippers who went at it without detailed
instruction. Once you've done it successfully a few times, you can
almost do it with your eyes closed. You can find detailed instructions on
the Clinic thread that Kaylee stuck at the top of the Gunsmithing Forum.
If you get stuck, I'll walk you through it via E-mail or even over the phone
if need be.

The Springfield ILS system is easy to rid yourself of. All you need is
a standard mainspring housing. If you want to go all the way with a complete standard set-up, you'll need a few other small, inexpensive parts. Most opt for the full boat. If you buy a Springfield and want to
swap out the ILS, you don't even need to detail-strip it because of the short trigger.

If you want to go that route, I'll provide a parts list and Brownells toll-free number. Have the parts sent to me along with 2 dollars for postage. I'll install them in an arched mainspring housing and mail it to you ready to install. I have about a dozen arched housings takin' up space in my parts drawer and I'm happy to give you one. There are even a few that are parkerized that will be a pretty close match to the Springfield GI Mil-Spec pistols.

Using an ordnance-spec trigger...read loose fit...is usually a drop-in swap.
Mainspring housing too, with one possible glitch in that it may need minor
fitting on the sides to slide into place. That happens on about one pistol in ten.

Standin' by...

Tuner

 

[SnakeEater]

Hmm, I have large hands and I prefer the short trigger and by far the arched msh. That's a heck of a nice thing to do Tuner

 

[cracked butt]

But then I discovered it was "New Jersey and Maryland Compliant." That was, it wasn't**really* "mil-spec," but had some sort of crazy internal "child safety lock" *built right into it, so that you needed this little key to "turn it on" (or "off"). The gadget even interfered with removal and insertion of the magazine. This was about as far from what I wanted as could be imagined.

AFAIK the ILS does not interfere with the magazine at all- the locking mechanism is contained in the MSH. Unless you notice the very tiny lock hole in the back of the MSH or detail stripped your pistol, you wouldn't even notice it. IMHO its probably the least intrusive and cheapest built in idiot lock I've seen on a gun.


The flat MSH and long trigger fits may hands well, in fact my large hands pretty much swallow up the hunk of iron and I wish the trigger was a little longer still. I also wish the gun was gold plated, with 30lpi checkering, Ivory grips, with a built in handwarmer for cold days, but I had to settle for what they had on the shelf

 

[moorerwc]

With my medium sized hands

I find that either setup works. I have the flat w/long trigger on my series I Kimber and a arched MSH/ short trigger on my NRM SS colt. I just used the old NRA 1911 print-up and Wilson's cheap manual and even with my lack of mechanical skill and series 80 parts, it ain't that big of a deal. Even with the slightly oversized Casull trigger all I needed was a few swipes on a 6" bastard file--and I had never even held a file before.

Oversized short solid triggers are available from King's, Dane Burns, and Brownell's sells the "V-series" (made by Greider on the old Videcki tooling).
Or you can search out a used, take-off or you could buy the new Colt series 70 repro--if you just can't bear taking it apart.

Machined steel arched MSH's are available from Brown and Colt, and S&A makes a decent cast unit.

If you're on a budget and used isn't an option, maybe Marstar, the Norinco distributor in Canada, would sell you milled Norinco parts (I don't think the ban precludes parts too)

-Chad

 

[UnknownSailor]

I shoot a double-stack 1911 (P-14), flat mainspring, long trigger, Hogue wrap-around finger groove grips, and find that even with the added grip diameter from the Hogues, my hands are still too big. I get trigger finger interferance with my thumb if I don't rest it on top of my off hand thumb. I got a comment about it at gunsite last year.

It came with an arched MSH, but it was plastic (!), and the feel bugged me. I put in a metal Wilson one, and much prefer how it feels.

Oh, and the very first time I detail stripped it, I was in my hotel room on Day 3 of my Thunder Ranch DH class. Took me a couple of tries to get the Series 80 disconnector in correctly, and the MSH takes a punch to get it's pin in there, but it wasn't that hard. Much easier than I thought it'd be. I strip it down about every 6 months or so, to clean out the gunk in the lockwork.

 

[Wichaka]

If Tuner is too far east for ya, I'm out here on the west coast.........I'll do the same for ya......

 

[1911Tuner]

Mainspring Housings & Triggers

Hi Sailor, (Gawd...That sounds sleazy. )

There's a mainspring housing available that kinda splits the difference. The wedge design provides a little extra length without the feel of the arched housing...which I don't particularly care for either.

Kings also offers an extra-long trigger for those of us with large hands.
I've used King's triggers with very good success. They come in various
colors, including blue...but unless you want a Petty BLue trigger, I'd
suggest sticking to black. King's triggers have slightly oversized
shoes, (finger pieces) and require light fitting on most guns.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Old Fuff]

Tuner:

Ah think you have a fixation on triggers ....