Flechettes: Help me

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Aaryq

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Howdy folks. I have 3 questions for you:

Are Flechettes Legal in the US?

How effective are Flechettes for HD?

Does anyone use Flechettes for their shotguns?
 
Expensive, looses energy quickly, doesn't fly straight for long, and not as effective as buckshot.

anything else?
 
Yes. There are places you can buy them, and they also sell flechettes that you can reload into shells.
 
They ARE legal, they ARE NOT good choices for home defense.

Denis
 
According to that link, they work best when you've got to penetrate tree cover. So for home defense, you might not want that. Going through *everything* might be bad...
 
Flechettes are unlawful in several states. CA and NY for sure. Check you local regulations.

Also, be advised that the flechettes you see for sale are from artillery beehive AP rounds. Shotgun flechette loads used a different flechette, which has never been available to the public.

The problem with flectetted is that at low velocities, the don't upset, and so their wounding ability is directly proportional to the width of the tail fins. AAI came up with an innovative solution that created one of the most lethal shotgun loads ever developed, which could still penetrate a steel helmet at over 500 yards. Sadly, the design never went past the experimental stage.

It was called SCMITR

shotgun_scmitr.gif
 
Sorry to get off subject, but, was there ever any SLAP 12ga ammunition designed?

The SCMITR is interesting, it sounds as if they were mere flat razor blades that spun aerodynamically stable.
 
As GunTech says, the blanket statemtent that 'flechettes are legal' is incorrect. Various state and local governments restrict thier possession. Check local laws or consult a local attorney.
 
Flechette rounds were originally developed for use in VN. The theory was that they would penetrate foilage. They didn't. Some of the fringe "specialty" ammo makers produce them, but they are essentially useless. The idea that any SG launched round would do anything at 500 years is simply dreaming. They did work ok in the 105mm howitzer as a cannister round, but not that much better (if at all) than the original cannister, which was a last ditch close range anti personnel round, which could also be set to burst at longer ranges.
One of the interesting original uses of flechettes was that the would be air dropped in clouds and would penetrate simply from the terminal velocity they gained from being dropped, these were much larger than SG size, the idea has yet to catch on.
 
Aside from the fact that they may or may not be legal depending on your state and local laws, and ignoring the fact that they are not likely to perform as well as more conventional rounds for home defense, you should consider one other thing...

If you ever have to use your shotgun in a home defense situation, do you really want to be slapped in court by a lawyer who paints you as a sadistic psycho for using flechette rounds? Their name alone sounds evil and mean-spirited. Buckshot is more effective, and its name makes it sound like it has a legitimate sporting use (which it does).

The military knows how to kill humans. It's their job. If they tried flechettes and then decided not to adopt them for use in military shotguns, then it stands to reason that they just didn't work as well as they were supposed to.
 
Flechette rounds were originally developed for use in VN. The theory was that they would penetrate foilage. ... They did work ok in the 105mm howitzer as a cannister round, but not that much better (if at all) than the original cannister, which was a last ditch close range anti personnel round, which could also be set to burst at longer ranges.
Click to expand...

Even during Vietnam arty crews started using "Killer Junior", which is still in the textbooks. Prior to deployment in 2003, my arty unit worked up tables of KJ settings for the 155mm howitzer.

Basically, you're just setting a Time fuse for the lowest possible setting and launching it with as low a charge as practical, ideally having it go off 500m or so after it leaves the tube, You launch it out at attacking infantry for battery defense.

One major reason for the preference for KJ over flechette: flechette does zilch to enemy in defilade, and low hit rate against enemies crawling, prone, etc. Since KJ blows in all directions (except back to the gunline), you can take out enemy below the blast.



I was, however, under the vague impression that some modern US helicopters use flechette ordnance. Anyone confirm/deny?
 
Those SCMITR things look like they'd be very effective. The flechettes that you can buy online? They are, in a word, poop. Each flechette is 8 grains and about .07 caliber. You can fit 19 of them in a shell. That gives a total cross-section area of 0.073 square inches. A single pellet of 00 buckshot has a cross-sectional area of 0.086 square inches.

So what's that mean? One pellet of 00 makes a bigger hole than 19 flechettes combined.

Even with the tail fins included, 8 pellets of 00 (a typical reduced-recoil load) makes a bigger hole.
 
Warning !!! Math Nazi in the room.

Each flechette is 8 grains and about .07 caliber. You can fit 19 of them in a shell. That gives a total cross-section area of 0.073 square inches.
Click to expand...

.07 x 19 = .133

Sorry RyanM, but while you came to the correct conclusion (Buckshot > Flechettes), you'll still have to stay after class and clean erasers....
 
.07 x 19 = .133

Sorry RyanM, but while you came to the correct conclusion (Buckshot > Flechettes), you'll still have to stay after class and clean erasers....
Click to expand...

Man, I missed this.

Anyway, I think you need to review 1st grade geometry. Start with the difference between area and diameter.
 
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