Flintlock pan polishing.

hawg

hawg

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
4,101
Location
Mississippi
As y'all well know I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to flintlocks. I've been doing a lot of reading and watching videos. Mostly trying to find out the do's and don'ts. I keep coming across people talking about polishing the pan. Some say it speeds up ignition. Others say it doesn't but it does make cleaning the pan easier. I figured what the hey, if it makes cleaning easier I'm all for it. I was somewhat worried the slick surface would make powder slide around and since I use very little powder in the pan it might be a bad idea but I did it anyway. I twisted the gun this way and that and the powder didn't migrate much. It just leveled out. In a hunting situation it might migrate further but I'm not up to that anymore. I must say it improved ignition speed. It's not as fast as a cap lock but it's close, dang close. I am well pleased with it. I don't understand how/why that works but it did for mine. I'll clean it in a day or three and see how easy it is to clean. From what I've read just one swipe and it's clean. We shall see.
 
I never thunk about that much. Yes don't see how it could hurt. The pan on my Bess is kind of polished, as I made it deeper years ago. I did a number of mods to the lock and pan ,touchhole, mainspring etc. which gave me much faster ignition...don't know how much pan surface contributed, or didn't. ? Looking at the pan of my Jeager, which just happens to be here as I want to take a couple shots with it today, (still loaded from hunting season) I see it has a fairly rough, sand-cast surface. What the heck, I'll polish it up, although I don't know how I'll tell the difference, as to my senses it is as fast as a cap-lock. (no of course it's not actually, but I can't tell)
 
Ugly Sauce said:
don't know how much pan surface contributed, or didn't.
Click to expand...

I don't think surface helps much. I use very little powder in the pan. Some say to fill the pan to the bottom of the touchhole but I get slower ignition when I use that much. It might work better in a hunting situation as my way the powder might migrate too far away from the touchhole. Next time out I'll have to try a little dab of powder as far away from the touchhole as I can get it.
 
Well them locks all like different things. My Bess likes a lot of prime, my Jeager very little, like yours. Maybe it's touch hole location. ? On my Bess, I made the pan deeper to get the touch hole higher up. "Out of the box", it was pretty much on the floor of the pan. But, the touch hole on my Jeager is still higher than Bess, and the Jeager is much faster.
 
That's what I look for on the touchhole. I also like a .070 diameter hole. My Ferg and my squirrel rifle both work very well on just enough powder to cover the bottom of the pan about 1 granule deep. I also prime from the horn.
 
I find that a polished pan is much easier to clean. Haven't noticed if it decreases lock time, but I will do anything that will make clean-up easier as long as it doesn't affect accuracy or harm the finish on the rifle.
 
hawg said:
This is how much powder I use in the pan and how I place it. I prime from the horn so it might be a little more or less depending.

View attachment 1202296
Click to expand...
Dang, that is minimal. !!!! That would work fine in my Jeager for target work, but I use a bit more when carrying it around in the woods or mountains, as if I have to shoot quickly and unexpectedly, I won't know where the prime is sitting. I like to cover most of the floor, lightly, just to catch as many sparks as possible. Ideally, I like to keep the prime away from the touch hole. If I drop the rifle down to my side, in my right hand, hold it level, and give it a little shake, that centers the prime in my pan. I call that the "flintlock shake". Or I just cradle it level in my left arm and give the lock a few taps with the heel of my right hand.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
That's what I look for on the touchhole. I also like a .070 diameter hole. My Ferg and my squirrel rifle both work very well on just enough powder to cover the bottom of the pan about 1 granule deep. I also prime from the horn.
Click to expand...
I'd prime from the horn if I wasn't using cannon powder. Well....1fg and 1.5fg. Paper cartridges, I prime from the cartridge. Of course, if I need to use the paper cartridges, I have bigger things to worry about than losing a half a micro-second of lock time. :)

Yep many run too small diameter of touch hole. The Italian guns like the TC's and CVA's were guilty of that. Generally, guys who feel they have to pick the touch hole every time they load for reliability, just need to open it up a bit. On my Bess, it does not have a liner, when I drilled it out I also coned it a bit, to help direct the flash better. But again, I did a whole lot of changes at once, so I have no idea what had the most effect. Made a big difference though, that even my brain could detect. She's fairly fast now, nothing like the Jeager, but pretty decent.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
I use a bit more when carrying it around in the woods or mountains
Click to expand...

Yeah not sure how well mine would work for that. I'll have to do some experimenting. As for the video mine is almost that fast now. I dunno, if I watched a video of it it might be that fast. I'll have to try it.
 
I haven't found that a polished pan increases ignition speed. And I clean the lock by removing it from the gun entirely and holding it under the hot water tap, so a polished pan makes no difference there either. So I no longer bother.

As for the amount of priming, I use far more than does @hawg. I usually find that I can't detect any difference in ignition speed until the pan is more than half full, but that using just a few grains can lead to unreliability. Because I prime from the horn, I don't have precise control, so I just aim for something like 1/4 full and call it good.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
I'd prime from the horn if I wasn't using cannon powder. Well....1fg and 1.5fg. Paper cartridges, I prime from the cartridge. Of course, if I need to use the paper cartridges, I have bigger things to worry about than losing a half a micro-second of lock time. :)

Yep many run too small diameter of touch hole. The Italian guns like the TC's and CVA's were guilty of that. Generally, guys who feel they have to pick the touch hole every time they load for reliability, just need to open it up a bit. On my Bess, it does not have a liner, when I drilled it out I also coned it a bit, to help direct the flash better. But again, I did a whole lot of changes at once, so I have no idea what had the most effect. Made a big difference though, that even my brain could detect. She's fairly fast now, nothing like the Jeager, but pretty decent.
Click to expand...
One of my Italian guns was pretty slow and unreliable until I drilled and thinned the touch hole. I no longer recall the drill size, but it was relatively huge, as recommended by Ross Seyfried a few decades back. It is big enough and thin enough that powder from the main charge is plainly visible. As long as the pan powder goes off, the main charge goes almost instantly, every time.
 
Whereas ‘heat’ is what actually sets the main charge off, I would say no, it does not speed up the ignition. But it sure does help with the cleaning!

FWIW I also shoot a snap - tinder lock, that I have posted on heres before. And that fire lock is a direct ‘hot coal’ - via the lit tinder - to the pan powder, ignition is instant! I say faster than a percussion lock … no mechanical interference.
 
.38 Special said:
It is big enough and thin enough that powder from the main charge is plainly visible.
Click to expand...
That is why I have switched to the large grain powders, my touch holes are not extra large, probably .070" like Jack says, but I can clearly see the powder packed up against the hole. I get the same impression, if I can see that, it's going to go off. Period. With 3fg, the powder would actually dripple out with handling/hiking. At first very puzzling. "I don't remember priming it that full". I didn't like that. (although the Jeager has never failed to fire. ever.) 2fg was a little, or much better, and I used that for a long time, but it didn't pack up against the vent so that you could see it, like the 1.5fg. 1.5fg really seems to be the perfect combination in that rifle. In Bess, the very large bore, and heavy charges I use, 1fg seems to be perfect in it, both in theory, and how she shoots. That big girl packs a punch!!! I almost feel sorry for Grizz.

Anyhow, yes it is reassuring to see nice dry powder right there in the vent, and some nice dry powder in the pan. Nothing can go wrong! :)
 
Every once in a while, I will see a reddish-brown "klinker" in the touch hole, which I assume is poorly-burned powder or some related kind of trash. If I try to shoot the gun in that condition, it often won't work. So when I see it, I dig it out or shift it around so that fresh powder appears, and that always allows the gun to go off. I suspect those little klinkers are responsible for at least some of the flintlock's reputation for unreliability.

Tl;dr: I think big touch holes are a very good idea. :)
 
My touchhole liner is a White Lightening and I believe the hole is .052. I haven't had any failures to fire. I've only fired about 20 rounds with the smaller amount of powder but it's been fast and reliable. I've probably fired about 40 rounds out of it altogether. It will even fire upside down. If I drill out the hole it might speed it up some but it's fast enough now that it doesn't bother me or maybe I'm just getting used to it but it is definitely faster.
 
I used to prime my rocklocks with 4 f until I read about how the Brits used to load the Brown Bess. Bite off the end of a paper caftridge, prime the pan, close the frizzen and dump the powder from the cartridge down the barrel followed by the ball and remains of the cartridge. Point it at the opposite guy and pull the trigger. I noticed a faster go bang time with the 3 f as opposed to the 4 f. Now the 4 f is reserved for pistol cartridges and revolvers.
 
I don't have any 4F. I'm not buying any more powder. I have eight pounds of Swiss, Olde Eynsford and a single metal can of Goex. I use 2F in my revolvers more often than not. I can't tell any difference between 2F and 3F in them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Loyalist Dave
  • Locked
Flashing the Pan before Loading?
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
whughett
whughett
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
  • Locked
proper pan fitting for a flintlock
2
Replies
39
Views
3K
Ugly Sauce
Ugly Sauce
arcticap
  • Locked
Blackmag Introduces "Flash" Pan Powder
Replies
10
Views
1K
Benmathes
B
arcticap
  • Locked
Videos - Firing India Bess with American Pioneer 3F
Replies
0
Views
497
arcticap
arcticap
M
  • Locked
Speaking of flinters...
2 3
Replies
50
Views
2K
4v50 Gary
4v50 Gary
Back
Top