FN Five-seveN Why aren't we all carrying one?

[MachIVshooter]

I like how some people say "5.7 is too small", but swear by the m-4. 5.56,

If you can't understand the difference, we can't help you. putting the 5.7 on the same level as the .223 is like saying a 134 HP Toyota mini truck can haul as much weight as my 134 HP turbodiesel 6x6; There are many unaccounted for numbers that are absolutely critical.

the stopping power I am thinking of in CNS

If you're counting on a CNS shot in a defensive situation, you need to go back to class. Ignoring for the moment that the head is a very small and very mobile target that will be very difficult to hit in a defensive situation, even a head shot is not gauranteed CNS damage; bullets deflect off of skulls all the time.

And the ammunition capacity argument is not a valid one; I can get 21 round magazines for my Witness 10mm that barely hang below the mag well. There are 20, 25, 27, 30 and 33 round magazines available for most 9mm's. Despite this, few of us are carrying duty-sized, high capacity pistols concealed for defense because they are too bulky; The Five-seveN is even larger than most full-size handguns.

If you like the Five-seveN and choose to carry it, great. But stop trying to convince the rest of us that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, or that your decision is a sound one. It's an expensive novelty handgun that fires a round with poor terminal ballistics.

 

[PvtPyle]

Gunner, do you actually carry a gun for a living? Just curious. But in watching this thread I have to deduced that you do not have a ton of experience with firearms. You statement about the 1911 having heavy recoil is....well astounding. My 7yr old daughter can shoot her Charles Daily .45 and get first and second round repeat hits on a 10" gong from 15 ft. Please dont tell me she is tougher than you. Maybe she just has a better stance.

As for multiple opponents, do you work at the Mall of America as a security guard by chance? (old timers know where that came from). You should read a few more stats. Like the break down of actual shooting incidents from the DOJ. Rarely is it more than one and when it is it is two perps not three or five.

As for the M$ comment and the 5.7 effectiveness.... why is it that all of the PSD guys that were using the P90 have all gone back to the M4? Because a 10.5" bbl M4 has more than twice the stopping power than the 5.7 carbine. These are the guys that are shooting people fairly reguarly in Iraq.

Keep in mind that the .22 kills more people than ANY other bullet. And most of them are one shot stops or they bleed out. But if you perf the Ascending aorta with a .22 you are a deadman. Head shots are often fatal because of brain swelling and not the disruption of the brain stem. To go with those 15 FS stops you cite, you may want to see why the perp actually died according to the coroners report.

If you like it and feel safe with it, great. But I trust the Lord's caliber handed down from the Profit John Moses Browning. And I carry 15 of them in the gun.

 

[hankdatank1362]

Profit John Moses Browning

Prophet? (Although I'm sure JMB made quite a profit in his day!)

 

[cerberus65]

lord's caliber handed down from the profit john moses browning

.25 acp?

 

[buzz_knox]

There's more where that came from.

FNH is on record as stating that all LEO ammunition on the "open" market is stolen gov't property. The ammunition is kept in a secured warehouse and only distributed to LEO end users. Any ammunition not in the hands of such an end user has been stolen somewhere along the line.

 

[PvtPyle]

Call it a capitolist slip. Obviously I meant Prophet, LOL!

 

[Phil DeGraves]

I prefer not to own anything that can fire out of battery.

 

[usp9]

I prefer not to own anything that can fire out of battery.

Then you would have no problem with the FN Five-seveN.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Wrong. The FN 5.7 is capable of being fired out of battery.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Wrong. The FN 5.7 is capable of being fired out of battery.

Horsesh--t. Don't speak if you don't know facts. The one claimed out of battery kaboom turned out to be an overcharged reload.

FN has repeatedly documented out of battery firing is not possible with the Five Seven.

I am so tired of seeing that same old story passed around as fact, even though the shooter finally admitted to using reloads and recanted his whole story.

The Five-seveN will not fire out of battery as claimed and falsley demonstrated on this post.

The Five-seveN slide will move rearward .1540-.1545" before it is considered out of battery. This measurement can be taken by pushing back directly on the barrel. After that point the barrel lug is locked and the slide will continue to move rearward. Now you are considered out of battery.

Up to this point the hammer can still fall but you will not strike the primer. The hammer will strike the bottom of the slide and not the firing pin. At .0840" of slide travel the firing pin disconnect is out of reach of the firing pin safety. The firing pin safety is the part that lifts the firing pin block out of the way allowing the firing pin to travel forward after being struck by the hammer.

Tommy Thacker
FNH USA
Product Manager

 

[Eightball]

Quote:

ammunition type you cannot legally own

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=113593184

There's more where that came from.

Hey, using that logic, you should buy an AR15 lower and look through Shotgun News for the continually-placed ad for a cheap, drop-in auto sear. That should go over real well, because you can also get that for cheap, and there's a TON more where that one came from.


Just because you can obtain something, doesn't make it legal. I hope you get my above refrence to prove my point, and I'm sure others will be along shortly to make you further "get the picture."

 

[Phil DeGraves]

The Five-seveN will not fire out of battery as claimed and falsley demonstrated on this post.

The Five-seveN slide will move rearward .1540-.1545" before it is considered out of battery. This measurement can be taken by pushing back directly on the barrel. After that point the barrel lug is locked and the slide will continue to move rearward. Now you are considered out of battery.

Up to this point the hammer can still fall but you will not strike the primer. The hammer will strike the bottom of the slide and not the firing pin. At .0840" of slide travel the firing pin disconnect is out of reach of the firing pin safety. The firing pin safety is the part that lifts the firing pin block out of the way allowing the firing pin to travel forward after being struck by the hammer.

the shooter finally admitted to using reloads and recanted his whole story.

I had not heard that. I stand corrected. I know that I could dryfire one when it appeared to be out of battery which seemed to confirm the story.

Don't speak if you don't know facts.

If everbody did that, there would be mighty few posts...

As I said, I believed it to be true because I TRIED it dryfire and I could drop the hammer with it out of battery. Doesn't matter...there are plenty enough other reasons for me not to like it.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

the stopping power I am thinking of in CNS

Didn't the FBI conclude that bullets below 200 grains can be deflected by bone?

You statement about the 1911 having heavy recoil is....well astounding.

Actually, he just said the 1911 was heavier.

 

[RPCVYemen]

I could drop the hammer with it out of battery

How did you determine that it was out of battery, and that the hammer was actually hitting something more than a firing pin safety?

I don't own one, but I read the referenced thread, and if I understand it, the weapon is still in battery - ie. the chamber is locked - when the slide moved back a small way. After that point, the hammer falling did nothing except hit some safety.

Not arguing, just curious.

Mike

 

[Zoogster]

....

 

[Gunnerpalace]

One last run before I quit here.

FNH USA has informed FTB that SS192 is no longer imported for commercial sale to the United States and that commercial sales of 5.7 X 28mm ammunition are restricted to the SS196 (not armor piercing

FN not the ATF.

do you work at the Mall of America as a security guard by chance?

Mall Ninja dig nice.....

You statement about the 1911 having heavy recoil is....well astounding.

I will try one last time

The Five Seven is light.......and has low recoil,

The M1911 is heavy......................And has low recoil,

And I would prefer to carry the light one.


Cerberus65: That post works for me cool.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

I don't know what it was hitting. It may have been perfectly safe; since I was dryfiring I don't know. But it APPEARED to me to be out of battery.

 

[TexasRifleman]

As I said, I believed it to be true because I TRIED it dryfire and I could drop the hammer with it out of battery.

The Five Seven, as with many other handguns, can drop the hammer while the gun is out of battery. That does not mean the gun will fire. There are firing pin blocks etc that are part of the system. Just because the hammer drops doesn't mean the gun would fire.

 

[cerberus65]

I will try one last time

Why?! Are you really expecting a different result than the last time?

If you like 5.7x28 and want to carry it (and are of legal age and have a permit), by all means, do it! Good luck! And God bless! Seriously!!

But please don't be offended if some of us have no desire to even own one much less carry one. There are a thousand different calibers, variants of calibers, etc. for good reason. Different strokes for different folks. While your arguments may have been persuasive to some, clearly some of us are unconvinced. That is not because you weren't persuasive enough, or because you didn't repeat your reasons enough times, or because of anything to do with you at all. It's simply because the caliber or the platform just doesn't appeal to us. That doesn't (or shouldn't) diminish you as a person in any way. It simply means we're different than you, not better, not worse, just different. Different tastes, different priorities, whatever.

The only thing that would diminish you in the eyes of your fellow High Roaders would be to go on and on and on trying to convince us that your favorite caliber should be our favorite caliber as if your self worth depended on it. But luckily, you'd shrug and let it go long before we got to that point, right?

 

[Mike OTDP]

I find the concept of the 5.7x28 ammo intriguing.

But the gun itself I am unimpressed with. You can try to carry it cocked & locked, but the safety is in a clumsy place. The DAO version first sold was just plain clumsy. If the piece were chambered in a conventional caliber, it would not sell.

What I would dearly like to see is a 1911-pattern gun chambered in 5.7, or even the HK P46. THAT I would pay good money for.

 

[Solidgun]

I have the PS90 and it has very low kick. I don't shoot it often, but ammo price isn't that bad and comes out to be like $0.43/per. Compared to like $0.32/per for 45ACP, it isn't all that high, but when I compare it to 223 rounds I try not to shoot the 5.7x28 ammo.
But it is amazing how fast you can shoot this pistol or the PS90 accurately because of the low recoil. I can rapidly fire all 21 rounds out of this pistol and put it in 5 inch group and in about 10 inch group with PS90.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Welcome to THR solidgun!

What I would dearly like to see is a 1911-pattern gun chambered in 5.7, or even the HK P46

Since we non-LEO civilians can't get the good ammunition for this caliber, I'd like to see a 1911 or the like in 7.62x25, if you're worried about body armor.

 

[mljdeckard]

Perhaps it should be asked from this direction: If it's such a great ammo/gun combination, wouldn't LE agencies, militarys, and individuals create more of a demand for it? Shouldn't they all be raving about the effectiveness of the round and the overwhelming love for the gun?

 

[RyanM]

Perhaps it should be asked from this direction: If it's such a great ammo/gun combination, wouldn't LE agencies, militarys, and individuals create more of a demand for it? Shouldn't they all be raving about the effectiveness of the round and the overwhelming love for the gun?

Along that vein, funny how people love to knock the .40 (probably because they can't take the recoil), yet the FBI and most PDs use it. Don't see many of them switching back to a different caliber.

Better terminal performance than 9mm, better capacity than .45. It solves two problems at once, therefore it's a "solution looking for a problem?"

 

[TAB]

RyanM... we are talking about guns here... logic and reason has no place.