Followed by a tailgater!

[axehead77]

Well, I've been lurking for some time on THR, but I figured this was worth posting.

Earlier this week, when bringing the wife and kids home from an early dinner, I noticed that the 'gentleman' behind me was riding my bumper a bit close. I sped up a bit, (it's a 25 MPH, no one really goes that speed, usually 30 as there are a few city officers that use it as a speed trap.) 35MPH wasn't enough, so I waved him around.

This seemed to inordinately piss him off(and his now arguing female in the car with him) to a degree that I wouldn't expect. It's not like he got the finger from me or something! Perhaps he misunderstood the gesture. Either way, I put up with this on my ride home, him running about 5-10 feet off my bumper.

I live in a relatively rural setting, so I was surprised that he was making the same turns as me. Then I was alarmed as it kept up. He finally continued on, on my second to the last turn. I figured it was over at that point, ran in the house, grabbed some stuff for the kids and headed back out. As I made the first turn off of my drive, I could see that the 'gentleman', was parked perpendicular to the street at the top, effectively blocking the exit. The streets are pretty narrow and bordered by a ditch. No getting out.

He then popped out holding a bat.

Since the weather was hot, all I had was my NAA mini-mag. It fits in the pocket nicely.

You could hear his girlfriend (or whatever) egging him on.

So, as he approached the car, I was getting Mr. Mini ready, as he was swinging the bat around his head like some retarded ninja, my wife had the presence of mind to hold up her cell and mouth "9-1-1" to him when he was about 25 feet away. He got it immediately. Really deflated him and he hustled back to his car and peeled out. Didn't get his plate, shame on me.

So, here's the question, beyond just the retelling of the event. I'm in Washington state. What level of force is appropriate if bonehead started smashing my windows with his bat?

To be honest, I was pretty freaked out with my kids in the car (20 mos & 5 years old). Backing up to my house wouldn't really work, due to the width of the street. I'd be in the ditch.

 

[Rachen]

So, here's the question, beyond just the retelling of the event. I'm in Washington state. What level of force is appropriate if bonehead started smashing my windows with his bat?

And more seriously, what if he attempts to hurt you or your wife with that bat? For windows, I don't know about Washington law, but he knows better than trying for personal attacks in CCW country.

Since the weather was hot, all I had was my NAA mini-mag. It fits in the pocket nicely.

Seems like it's time to upgrade to a more sufficient power. Like 1911 or .38 revolver. You need something that is both intimidating, so you can avoid violence in the first place, and something with enough firepower to stop violence if mere warnings do not work.

 

[GingerGuy]

What level of force is appropriate if bonehead started smashing my windows with his bat?

He would have had to go through me to get to my windows. I would have felt very threatened and defended myself accordingly. One swing of that bat would have been the start of it and one BANG would have ended it.

 

[TallPine]

I'm confused. If you had arrived at your house, why didn't you get yourself and your family inside and deal with the situation from there ?????

 

[Rachen]

The worst place to go when you are dealing with a possible tailgater/stalker is by going home. When you suspect that someone is tailing you, always drive to the nearest police station, or in absence of that, a brightly lit and well populated area.

 

[Picard]

Get a more effective piece. Like someone mentioned earlier, something that is both intimidating and effective.

You never know when you'll have to fight for your life so you might as well make all the odds work in your favor.

 

[CountGlockula]

I hope you have a CCW.

 

[thegoodfight]

why did you let him follow you home...you should have let him follow you all the way back into town to your nearest PS. Plus, you need to pack better heat!

 

[herohog]

What's with these tailgaters? A shoot-out I was ready for!

 

[TCB in TN]

Senior Member



Join Date: 12-26-02
Location: somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 7,078
I'm confused. If you had arrived at your house, why didn't you get yourself and your family inside and deal with the situation from there ?????

According to the OP he thought the guy was gone and was going out again.

 

[Rugerlvr]

The worst place to go when you are dealing with a possible tailgater/stalker is by going home. When you suspect that someone is tailing you, always drive to the nearest police station, or in absence of that, a brightly lit and well populated area.

This is the right answer.

Additionally, you can tell if someone is following you by making four right turns in a row. If he follows, then you and he, have just made a circle, and you should proceed to a police station or a brightly lit area with lots of people, like right in front of a Walmart.

 

[Wheeler44]

What level of force is appropriate if bonehead started smashing my windows with his bat?

I am not a bloodluster but the law says when you fear for the safety of you and/or others life.

To be honest, I was pretty freaked out with my kids in the car

Wa state law bat= deadly weapon.

You were there, were you scared for your life? for the life of your family? Could you "reasonably" have got away?

 

[Feud]

If it were me, and I had the cell phone with me, I would have given the Police a friendly phone call and asked if there were any marked cars around that I could pay a visit to (or vice versa). It might be enough to snap the person back to their senses, and if not you have the benefit of the law on your side.

As was said, if you think someone is following you don't drive straight to your house, take the scenic route or loop around the block once first (if they are still following don't stop!). The extra money in gas is well worth it.

 

[Rugerlvr]

In your situation, you would probably have faced less danger of prosecution if you'd simply run him over.

 

[Polishrifleman]

Castle Doctrine in WA state! Defend you and yours is the proper answer to your question. If you were asking what you should have done different some of the other posts would apply.

RCW 9A.16.050
Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.


[1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.16.050.]

 

[Aguila Blanca]

No level of force was appropriate. You had ample opportunity to get away. Your mistake was continuing home after you realized he was following you. You should have driven directly to the nearest police station.

 

[Rimmer]

I have handled the tail-gater often by signaling well in advance of a driveway and then turning in and let the Bozo go his merry way. Then I pull out and continue on.
If it's someone really in a hurry and riding my bumper way to close I wait for oncomming traffic and signal for a left turn into a drive or parking lot. You know, so he will have to stop behind me while we both wait for traffic to clear and I can turn.

I would never allow anyone to follow me for more than 2 turns. I'd head straight to a Police station.

Back to your question, I don't know about Washington but I would followed the suggestion given above. Once the Bat came out so would the Pistol. If necessary I would have shot but only as a last resort and probably in the legs. Either way I would have called the Law and told the story in detail. BTW, don't ever miss the plate number again.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

The cell phone is your friend in cases like this, to talk to the police and keep them apprised of the situation. If it had come down to shooting - which you absolutely can and should do if he gets close enough to you with that bat! - you have it on tape. Also, do not stop except for traffic or other physical obstacles blocking you. Definitely do not stop to get out and confront him - that will be seen as escalating the situation - or let him follow you home. And something tells me you will be upgrading your armament soon.

 

[pyle]

These are the types of situations you should have thought about already. Obviously, you can't think of everything but you can use mental simulations to train yourself for situations like these. The biggest trick is to keep your "simulations" in line with your state laws.

Oklahoma law is pretty straight forward on this matter:

G. A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is
attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty
to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force
with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is
necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or
herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

If someone is coming toward me with a baseball bat ready to swing and I'm not coaching little league at the time - I'm pulling out the gun...

 

[kentucky_Dave]

Have the wife call the cops as you do your best to back away from the BG. (Create distance)
If you end up in a ditch, you have no choice but to stand your ground, and pray for the ability to diffuse the situation reasonably.
If all else fails, you then should do whatever is necessary to protect those babies.

Point Blank; as, that's every parent's sole purpose in life.
Provide for, educate and protect those kids at all cost.

 

[FCFC]

It's a very interesting tale.

 

[Five of Clubs]

Hey Axe - Don't let these guys beat you up too bad, the situation was diffused without anyone being harmed. Hindsight is 20/20 in tactical situations, but you didn't do anything titanically dumb. Your choice of carry is a little anemic, but I carry a Ruger LCP so I'm not much better off. I do think that the little NAA would have taken some of the fight out of your Barry Bonds impersonator. You will certainly be better prepared next time, and maybe we all will be too by reading this.

 

[axehead77]

I assumed that after I made my 2nd to last turn, as he was no longer behind me that he was gone. I was mentally preparing as to what to do if he followed me to my driveway. I was relieved that it didn't get to that point, so I headed back out. It's about 5/8 of a mile between my house and where he blocked the road, FWIW.

Yeah, I felt pretty stupid for only having my Mini at the time. Normally I keep something more potent in the car. I won't make that mistake again. The NAA is my 'better than nothing' gun.

 

[sacp81170a]

This:

if bonehead started smashing my windows with his bat?

Plus this:

my kids in the car (20 mos & 5 years old).

= Deadly force justified. If he had started smashing your car windows with your children inside, is there a high likelihood of serious injury to the kids? You betcha. Had it gone any farther and he had started smashing windows, shoot for center mass on the best target that presents itself. Too bad you weren't carrying something you were a little more confident would stop him. Others have pointed out other tactical considerations, but remember this: this jackleg knows where you live now.

 

[blkbrd666]

Quote:
G. A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is
attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty
to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force
with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is
necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or
herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.


Ahhhh, how nice...somebody in Oklahoma thinks like me. And to think, I was looking to move to Nevada!