The 300 Blackout pistol I completed before the 'rona showed up cost me $375 with an optic and a SBA4 brace.
Food 4 Thought Friday: Defensive AR’s
- Thread starter Varminterror
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The 300 Blackout pistol I completed before the 'rona showed up cost me $375 with an optic and a SBA4 brace.
That was a BCA or an Anderson or what? No issues?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Is that all inclusive? I have almost $900 in mine without the optic and that includes a cheap $300 upper.
The lowest upper I see at BCM is $464 and that is without a handguard, BCG or charging handle. Add their options for those and it's nearly $700.
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places or maybe this is the wrong time to be shopping but I have a hard time seeing how you'd source a $350 AR.
They have AR parts on Wish. Just because it’s sold doesn’t make it any good.
I’ve run into issues with the substandard parts that friends and coworkers buy. I don’t buy them, but in trying to help them out I still end up trouble shooting them.
I personally save myself some trouble and just save up and buy something decent from the get go.
I’ve run into issues with the substandard parts that friends and coworkers buy. I don’t buy them, but in trying to help them out I still end up trouble shooting them.
I personally save myself some trouble and just save up and buy something decent from the get go.
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BCM= Bravo Company Manufacturing
BCA= Bear Creek Armory
Yes you're looking in the wrong place and everybody's prices are up 10% or more with the coronies.
Anderson lower $40
LPK $30
BCA complete upper $200
SBA4 $100
Optic $30
I was off on the estimate $25. If I had stuck with the Sig brace I already had the total cost would have been $350.
The optic was purchased from a member at my range. It's a TRS-25.
I've got ~500 rounds though it with no bobbles. I'd have more but it's been so wet the chances to get to the range are limited.
LPK $30
BCA complete upper $200
SBA4 $100
Optic $30
I was off on the estimate $25. If I had stuck with the Sig brace I already had the total cost would have been $350.
The optic was purchased from a member at my range. It's a TRS-25.
I've got ~500 rounds though it with no bobbles. I'd have more but it's been so wet the chances to get to the range are limited.
Elkins45
Member
My defensive rifle doesn’t have an optic. My house isn’t big enough to need magnification.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
My home defense carbine doesn't have a magnified optic either, but it does have a red dot.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
BCA's cheapest complete 5.56 upper is still five bucks over the AR Stoner at Midway. Their cheapest rifle is nearly $100 over budget. So I assume we're talking building a $350 AR? Add a $60 lower, $60 LPK with FCG and you're at $350 without sights, a buffer, buffer tube, buttstock or magazine. I have a spare Aero lower but it was $90. I don't recall what the Andersons were going for at the local shop but it seems like $60. Like I said, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel and really having to shop around for the cheapest parts to come in at $350. Buy or build, I'll take my chances with the $700 rifle.
Even $700 is pushing it these days. Not counting the Corona virus and the upcoming elections. That’s a basic, no frills kind of rifle.
A $599 PSA Premium rifle kit on an Easter sale, a lower and a Magpul MBUS rear sight. I don’t know about y’all, but that’s the most basic rifle I’d be okay with. It’s certainly no LMT or Noveske, but it would likely run alright.
With some of the issues Anderson and BCA have these days I’d have no interest in those.
A $599 PSA Premium rifle kit on an Easter sale, a lower and a Magpul MBUS rear sight. I don’t know about y’all, but that’s the most basic rifle I’d be okay with. It’s certainly no LMT or Noveske, but it would likely run alright.
With some of the issues Anderson and BCA have these days I’d have no interest in those.
briansmithwins
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Optics get you hits faster, everything else being equal. Red dots are faster than irons close up.
BSW
Elkins45
Member
How big is your living room?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Doesn't matter how big it is, quicker is quicker. Red dots are quicker. Especially during low light situations.
briansmithwins
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Big enough to miss in. You’re never too close to miss unless you’re touching someone with the muzzle, and why would anyone sane do that?
BSW
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I still lean heavily on iron sights and will go to a lot of trouble to have them on a rifle. For serious work in close quarters and low light, I want a red dot and a mounted weaponlight.
Elkins45
Member
Don’t they teach the “hasty sight picture” anymore? At living room range the front sight is all you need to score torso hits. It’s faster than finding that little dot for me.
AK103K
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With the red dots youre not looking for the dot. You look at the target as you shoulder the gun, and there it is, right where youre looking.
because your hiding behind your couch when they decide to sample your fridge and tv!
90% of the low cost stuffs out of stock right now. even the mid priced stuffs going quick.
Anyway, if you check then out of stock stuff on BCAs site, they do have some 360ish options. Every now and then I'll see other places like Delta, RTB, PSA, and Jbobs have sales where adding a 60 dollar lower would still bring full cost in at 300-350 for a basic ar.
Not right now mind, people freaking out is making it hard to enjoy my new p80 hobby even...A complete AR? best to buy something odd like a .458 since they are still in stock and relatively lower cost.
Also back on point.....having two ARs, if you allow some differences in basic equipment like sights, can cover a wider degree of situations more optimally, and quicker, than a single gun even if it has good detachable optics.
Mosin77
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In a hypothetical woods self defense scenario, assuming I tooled-up pre-Corona when ARs were (practically) a dime a dozen, I’ll take two reliable cheapies. May need to arm a friend, may need a spare gun if something breaks, may want one gun for the house and one for the truck, etc etc. More guns are better than less, if you really think there’s a good chance you might have to use them.
In real life I’ll take one better rifle I’ve tailored to my liking. More fun at the range and if I somehow find myself in that cabin needing a gun, I’ll be more than passingly familiar with my rifle and probably do ok.
In real life I’ll take one better rifle I’ve tailored to my liking. More fun at the range and if I somehow find myself in that cabin needing a gun, I’ll be more than passingly familiar with my rifle and probably do ok.
briansmithwins
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Yes, and I’ve done it too* with targets at yards away. It’s still faster with a red dot.
BSW
*Local rifle match sometimes does close targets.
Elkins45
Member
With the red dots youre not looking for the dot. You look at the target as you shoulder the gun, and there it is, right where youre looking.
I must be in the minority but it’s never been faster with a red dot for me. Not even close.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Let me preface this by saying that I spend more time every year hunting with iron sighted traditional muzzeloaders than anything else. My penchant for iron sighted sixguns is well known by most here.
That said, I spent years chasing the front sight while trying to use a hand held flashlight. I played with all sorts of configurations, iron sights, scopes, red dots, etc. before I put together a rifle specifically for the task of illuminating and eliminating midnight marauders in the chicken house. If there is a better solution for fast work in low light than a modern rifle with a red dot sight and a mounted weaponlight, I never found it. Military and law enforcement would seem to have reached the same conclusion.
AK103K
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How much time have you spent shooting a red dot, especially on your feet and "reactively"?
I learned to shoot on military rifles of all types with iron sights, and the first time I shot a red dot, especially for quick, snap shots on targets at all distances, I was sold.
I still regularly shoot iron-sighted rifles, but on anything, Id consider for serious use, theres a red dot mounted.
briansmithwins
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I also shoot irons at the rifle match occasionally just for the challenge. What a red dot gets you is both eyes open situational awareness plus the ability to shoot using odd positions that wouldn’t let you get a sight picture with irons. Even if you can only see the dot right at the edge of the optic you can get a hit with it.
Even using Aimpoints with a tube I never see the tube when I’m shooting or looking for targets. It’s more like there’s a red dot, focused at infinity, hanging in space. Put the dot on the target, press the trigger, get a hit.
BSW
Skylerbone
Member
Seems some have taken the price tags as literal, and I went through the exercise online of finding components I would trust to work, but would not care to buy (because I’m not interested in building to the lowest price point) and I came out in budget by $8 before shipping and taxes.
Now...the real point I want to make is illustrated below by a build sheet I did for my HD AR. Crossed off in red are the glaring superfluous items that don’t affect function. Had I chosen one of the Anderson upper/lower receiver combos at $80/set, a no-name $50 barrel, etc. the AR would have been half price or less.
Spending double the money isn’t always about purchasing reliability, all too often in my case, and I suspect in many others, it’s about getting what we want. We don’t need sub-MOA for HD, don’t need MLOK attachment or billet receivers or NiB BCGs.
It’s fine to have nice things and feel inspired with the confidence that they’ll work every time. I recall more than one thread that devolved into “would you go to war with it?” Well, sure, why not? The counter argument is would you stare down the business end of a $350 or $400 AR and bask in the confidence that it couldn’t possibly work.
Now...the real point I want to make is illustrated below by a build sheet I did for my HD AR. Crossed off in red are the glaring superfluous items that don’t affect function. Had I chosen one of the Anderson upper/lower receiver combos at $80/set, a no-name $50 barrel, etc. the AR would have been half price or less.
Spending double the money isn’t always about purchasing reliability, all too often in my case, and I suspect in many others, it’s about getting what we want. We don’t need sub-MOA for HD, don’t need MLOK attachment or billet receivers or NiB BCGs.
It’s fine to have nice things and feel inspired with the confidence that they’ll work every time. I recall more than one thread that devolved into “would you go to war with it?” Well, sure, why not? The counter argument is would you stare down the business end of a $350 or $400 AR and bask in the confidence that it couldn’t possibly work.
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