Four killed on camera in Mexican jewelry store, gunmen take nothing(Warning: Graphic)

[Floppy_D]

I wasn't going to post in here, as I prefer to geek-out in reloading.

When I was 16, I stumbled into an armed robbery. I walked into a supermart that I used to bag groceries in, in small-town Amarillo, TX. While perusing the goods, I saw a giant inflatable Corona display bottle that I was fairly certain my old manager might let me have. I headed to the "control room" (managers, safes, cameras, etc) and knocked on the door. Nothing. Knocked again. "Hold-on-a-minit!!" was the reply. Odd, I don't remember that voice. New manager, I suppose. I waited, and a fellow in a duster jacket opened the door quickly, leaned out of the room and peered over my shoulder, with his right hand near my stomach. He peeked down the hallway to see if anyone was with me (I guess) and shoved me in the room. The door was spring-driven to close automatically, and did. He banged on it a for a few seconds from the other side, hoping to get back in, and then ran away. The door locked automatically as soon as it closed, so I idlely sat in wonder of what was going on. When I turned around, I saw my former managers face down, hands tied behind their back. They asked if he was gone, and I said yes. I cut them loose, they called the cops, and I gave a description. They told me that he had a gun, but I never knew it.

In hindsight, when I realized something was strange, I should have left. By the time I caught up with what was going on, he was LONG gone. NO handgun in the universe would have helped me. If I knew he was in the other room, I would not have knocked. If I hadn't known, I would have no reason to draw, and would still be surprised.

Moral of the story, mindset is defense of the unarmored. I play this back in my head all the time. What would I have done different? First, not stick around. Second, not draw on a drawn gun. If I was carrying, what good would it have done?

In the video here, wariness may have served a purpose, but maybe not. Sometimes you luck out, sometimes your outta luck.

The real travesty was that after an hour of talking to cops and giving statements, the managers wouldn't let me have the inflatable beer bottle because it belonged to the distributors and not them. Bums.

 

[sm]

Zooster wrote:
Unlike in SM's situations this is most likely an assassination, not a robbery.
Four men armed with full auto fire going for one purpose, to assassinate the police commander out on foot with his wife.

Z-
You are correct and we posted near the same time and I had to attend to something else and missed your post.

One never knows when there are plans to take someone down. You don't know if a person rejected in a relationship, or someone with a RO is going to walk into to where you are and "by golly I got something to say".

 

[conw]

Why in the world is this being posted? It happened nearly two years ago.

Not a lot's changed in those two years my friend. We can still learn from the incident, which is one of the purposes of this forum.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Are you watching the same video as everybody else?

Yeah, the one with no sound. I took the liberty of assuming that they made some noise running toward the front door. Given that the storefront was transparent, I was simply suggesting that someone, probably in the rear of the "corridor", might have had a chance at getting some shots off if they had been very astute, practiced, and lucky. If not, it would be nice if they had been allowed to try. I agree my first statement was too optimistic, though.

Nevertheless, this is absolutely terrifying.

 

[Hollywood Marine]

None of the victims were armed. Had they been, perhaps there might have been no assault, or if there were, perhaps more than one perp might have gone down. But, without any weapon to defend themselves the result seen is a given. I'd say that what we have here is a good argument for universal populace armament, ala Switzerland.

 

[Shung]

exept that it's now 10 years that carrying is nearly impossible in Switzerland.. :banghead:

 

[bthest86]

None of the victims were armed. Had they been, perhaps there might have been no assault, or if there were, perhaps more than one perp might have gone down. But, without any weapon to defend themselves the result seen is a given. I'd say that what we have here is a good argument for universal populace armament, ala Switzerland.

The Police commander was reaching for his weapon the second he was hit. No one in there had a chance. Armed or not. I don't think anyone can draw their weapon and fire whilst being riddled with 7.62x39mm.

As for the Full-auto AKs. Obviously purchased at a Texas Gun show along with RPGs, surface to air missiles, M4s, M16s and grenades. Dontchya know that you can buy all that at a gun show with the loops holes there are!?

 

[Gerald in Ga]

The shooters looked like cops.

 

[71Commander]

None of the victims were armed. Had they been, perhaps there might have been no assault, or if there were, perhaps more than one perp might have gone down. But, without any weapon to defend themselves the result seen is a given. I'd say that what we have here is a good argument for universal populace armament, ala Switzerland.

Me thinks that if the victims were all armed, the outcome would have been the same.

 

[aka108]

The "victims" probably owed someone some money on a bad drug deal or were competiton being eliminated.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

This ain't a Mexican thing, its a human thing.

Yeeaaaah, but really, it's more of a "war on drugs side effect" thing. Make soft drugs legal, and decriminalize hard drugs, and the violence goes away overnight, AND less people would use drugs, if you spent just about 1/3rd of what we spend prosecuting the war on drugs, instead on education, prevention, and treatment.

Very sad though - there's a hot corner of hell reserved for these thugs.

 

[Maelstrom]

In this situation everything you've ever learned or read is out the window.

There is no "move-and-shoot."

There is no front sight picture.

There's not even the thought "Hey, I'm trying to win."

You're not trying to survive here. You're trying to kill. Don't even delude yourself that you're going to come out of this OK.

It's me and 9 rounds of .45 vs three men with AK-47s at a distance of ten feet.

If everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is optimal, then you can possibly kill them all. But it had better be done before the reload, and it had better be a performance that would make Rob Leatham jealous.

If you see them coming past the window, get your gun out and on the door. The fist two come through and raise rifles, you'd better already be shooting. The third guy? You're relying on his panic from watching his "shooting duck" plan go to hell. He either runs of you two have at it, with him behind cover of the door frame and you in the open.

Plant your feet, square up on your target and know that you're about to die. At this point you're just trying to cause as much damage as you possibly can before you find yourself heavier from the lead now in your body.

How fast can a thoroughly panicked Maelstrom get off nine rounds from a 1911 when he has more adrenaline than blood in his system? Pretty damn fast, I'd imagine.

 

[Bubba613]

How fast can a thoroughly panicked Maelstrom get off nine rounds from a 1911 when he has more adrenaline than blood in his system? Pretty damn fast, I'd imagine.

With most of them going through his thigh, leg, and foot.
No, I agree with those who say this was not survivable. Gunmen came in along the side of the door, so not much warning there. No cover, no obvious place to jump to and about 1 second to do so even if it were available. It is about the amount of time needed for the brain to process "life threatening event occurring now." By the time that information is processed it is too late.

 

[Maelstrom]

With most of them going through his thigh, leg, and foot.

Hey. Sometimes you take what you can get.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

How fast can a thoroughly panicked Maelstrom get off nine rounds from a 1911 when he has more adrenaline than blood in his system? Pretty damn fast, I'd imagine.

Yes, but it would not be fast enough. Sure, we are all great when it comes to drawing and firing on targets. We have all timed ourselves and we can shoot amazingly well. The problem is that we know that we are doing a drill. We know that we are going to fire. We are prepared to draw and fire when the tone sounds. There are no major distractions. There are no situations to interpret. There are no decisions to make. We are simply waiting on a go signal.

In the jewelry store shooting, all the shootees are shot and incapacitated inside of 3 seconds and those three seconds include the initial reaction time for the victims to realize something is going on and then to start to respond. Note that they all lose time between when the shooting starts and when they react. That is time needed to process what was going on and then to determine how to respond. By the time realization has set in, the chief and his wife are being shot within a half second or so. The chief appears to react to the incoming threat (seen visually) and changes his body posture (planting his feet?) and is then shot and his wife appears to react based on the gunfire and turns to run but only makes it one step. The guard sees the first gunman run in firing and attempts to exit the store and encounters the second gunman who shoots him and at the end of the first 3 seconds, the guard's lifeless body is falling to the ground.

Most folks have no capacity to be able to be surprised, engage their OODA loop, then physically respond in a controlled manner inside of 3 seconds for this sort of event, much less get off all 9 rounds, especially when most folks have a startled draw that is in excess of 2 seconds or more.

 

[Maelstrom]

Good points. Glad I made them in my post. I did mention that you were a dead man and you're only trying to inflict whatever damage back you can.

 

[sm]

Double Naught Spy,
Maelstrom,

Great posts!


Reality is Real.

I am going to step on some toes here, still some Gun Folks will view this Video and React and Comment just like Anti-Gun.

-Denial.
Something like cannot possibly happen to me.

a. That was in Mexico.
b. I live in a nice area of USA

-Legislation is needed.

a. Somebody has to do something.
b. We need a Law.
c. "Some" gun control is all right.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is Mexico not one of the most fun friendly places to be?

It seems to me I recall Washington D.C. and Chicago having a gun related incident or two, and they are not gun friendly.

-

This is where I get upset and get yelled at. I am nobody, dumb as a brick, still one of my defaults of character is, I care about folks.
Just a dumb old southern boy, born in the mid 50s , that don't know any better I guess.
I was born into and come up into a "hi-risk" setting if you will.

Reality is Real.
You do everything you possibly can to Avoid and Prevent and still Evil and Criminals beat you and win.

Legislation's, Enacted Laws, Alarm Systems, Safes, Armed Security, Firearms, Training, and sometimes, the best you can do, is not good enough.

Anti's do not get this.
Some Pro-Gun folks do not get this.

Software, not Hardware, is something I believe in. I have nothing against "hardware", it is part of the "tool sets".

Just you cannot put all your sense of being safe in "hardware".

Mentors shared with me, and this is where I get this:
Accept the fact your are disposable, that the universe was doing fine before you were born and will continue after you are dead. You are not that big of a deal.

Once some perspectives are accepted, this frees up some wasted energies and allows one to use those energies to better themselves in staying safe.

Who cares you have a make, model, caliber, ammo and holster and can do a drill in a certain time.
Evil does not.

 

[BADUNAME37]

These people were concentrating on looking at a medallion as a gift. They weren't looking at the door.

When people are literally running in with guns shooting, then they look, but by then they are already shot and PROBABLY already dead (while still on their feet) --- the blood just hasn't made its way down from their brain quite yet.

It is a tragic event that manifests the evil in our world.

My prayers go to the boy who made it through successful intestinal surgery which is apparently why his parents (the police chief and his wife) were purchasing the boy's surgeon a medallion, or some sort of gift, from what I gathered.

 

[Maelstrom]

It just occurred to me that there IS a surefire way of coming out of this alive.

First you need to duct tape trauma plates to your back while your wife assembles her rifle...

 

[HK G3]

The only thing that could have saved any of them long enough to return fire would have been heavy Class III-IV body armor, as it appeared as if all initial shots were CoM.

And even then, great, now you've survived long enough to get shot in the head.

The only thing that could have saved anyone would have been heavily armed guards outside the store, especially if it was known that the police chief was considered a target. At least then, the people inside would have had time to react to the sounds of gunfire.

Truly sad that their child is now an orphan.

 

[Steve N]

And I have to go to that third-world s&%#-hole next month for work. I am SOOO not looking forward to that! I asked Chrysler to provide a driver and interpreter, and they told me I was on my own. Hopefully they will go bankrupt first and my trip will get canceled.

 

[anythingshiny]

after watching that a few times, I'm of the mind that no amount of mindset,training or readiness would have saved any of them. Even in a FoF training...if you were standing at the low ready, toward the threat...with a timer counting down to 'go!'...

they would all still be dead.

that was pretty brutally efficient.

 

[Grizfire]

The only thing that could have saved any of them long enough to return fire would have been heavy Class III-IV body armor, as it appeared as if all initial shots were CoM.

Unfortunately, I don't think so. Look at the woman in the back, you can see a round hit her in the head just before she drops. Although the two in front may have been able to return fire if equipped with body armor.

 

[ironvic]

My wife should see this. She'd have nightmares though, so I'll spare her. At least she'd finally understand why I never sit with my back to the door or aisle in restaurants and why I carry. I've seen this kind of senseless murder up close and personal and it still makes me angry to see these things. Those poor people in the jewelry store, though-they didn't have a chance. Sprayed down with automatic fire from behind. Just innocents. Hunt down the killers and blow 'em away in the town square. Then get their boss and do even worse to him.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

after watching that a few times, I'm of the mind that no amount of mindset, training, [weapons], or readiness would have saved any of them.

That's clearly correct, UNLESS they had all that plus:

1. Locked doors, where you have to be buzzed in after a visual inspection by the owner (as is the case at many American jewelry stores in high crime areas).
2. Reinforced, thick bullet-resistant glass. Sure an AK can still mow it down with repeated hits - but that could buy you *just* enough time to react and shoot back; and
3. Some sort of cover inside the store.

Then it's *possibly* survivable by some or all of the victims, with 1 and 2, and possibly quite survivable by all with 1, 2, and 3.