Four killed on camera in Mexican jewelry store, gunmen take nothing(Warning: Graphic)

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mbt2001 said:
Are you serious??

Sarcasm: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain.

mbt2001 said:
This isn't a "gun control issue" but a border issue.

You're preaching to the choir. Further, I would encourage you to send an email to the reporter of the above referenced article to enlighten him.
 
Somebody with a gun, some training, and situational awareness certainly could have survived this attack.

There was no cover, and not even any concealment, no apparent alternate exits, and three armed men with RIFLES.

If by "a gun" you mean "a semi-auto shotgun on a sling," and in addition some body armor that would stop 7.62x39, I could agree with you.

Did you watch the same video I did? That's like saying wearing a seatbelt and being a good driver will let anybody survive a head-on collision with a semi.
 
Only if the guard had been armed, anticipated the attack, and been ready BEFORE these guys came in. THEN he might have been able to keep them outside long enough for everyone else to run out the back door, IF there was a back door.

This was a surprise attack with overwhelming force against a target known to be helpless. No chance at all. Even in the worst parts of the U.S. this kind of attack is extremely rare. If it were more common, I would move.

The other day in Walmart, I saw a guy there with his wife and small child, getting the eggs and milk. No eyebrows raised until he turned his back to me and he had a big "13" tattooed on the back of his head, surrounded by other characters. Half of my brain said, "Just because he used to affiliate doesn't mean he still does." Then the other half of my brain said, "Ok, If he DOESN'T, why doesn't he let his hair grow to cover it or get it removed?" As we seperated, I asked my wife; "You know why I have to carry even at Walmart, right?"
 
Who would that be? It wasn't the customers. They went down in less than a second. Possibly the guard might have been able to draw and shoot an attacker, but would he have survived? I doubt it. He would have been shooting attacker #1 and #2 or #3 would have shot him or shooting #2 and then #3 would have shot him.

Maybe an Spec Ops elite in D-skin coulda stopped the attack

I wouldn't bet money on it tho
 
gym,

Is correct.

In addition-

Folks, this is how some armed robberies go down, period!
Violent Criminal Acts that have nothing to do with Mexico, or drug war.

I know, how well I know.

When some of us harp about Software, not hardware, we do so for a reason.
There is no "shooter ready?", no start buzzer, no do-overs.

This is why it is imperative to keep in mind ADEE, and the first letter is Avoid, not the ultimate extreme blaster on your hip with exotic ammo.

My hands shake as I try to type this...not because I have btdt, instead one of my defaults of character is I care. I know folks that are injured, maimed and dead and while I and mine tried to assist them...

-Cameras only deter certain models of criminals-sometimes.
They are easy to defeat, and if they record, they record as did here. Lessons for the living of what not to do, what needs to be done, and a reminder dead is forever.

-The only eyes up front, were those of the guard.

To me it reads of akin to having an unarmed security guard to give the business a break on insurance, and to give customers a false sense of security , along with the cameras.

-"Never bunch up, if grenade is tossed, everyone is dead. "

In a business , one rule is "eyes up front" . The earlier one picks up a signal the more distance /time they have to deal with a problem.
If being cased, VCA will see folks are paying attention.

-That is the typical "U" layout.
There are more negatives than positives, for both business owners and customers.

Another rule is never bunch up. VCAs will have total control of business.

Folks, this applies to you the customer. You are "herded and pinned" in a "U" layout.


-I bet there is no cover in that setting.

Forget gun rags, gelatin tests, Internet, caliber wars and whatever.
Get metal, concrete, sandbags mixed with odd scrap of nuts, bolts and go shoot the damn things with .30 cal, 12 slug, 00 buck, and FMJ 9mm, and the like.

Then put this up and under the showcases. Screw the under-stock being handy, you need something to stop a bullet when you hit the deck.

Put the hidden revolvers where they can be accessed once you hit the deck.

I do not like the "U" layout. Folks ask me to consult, and the first thing I do if can is get rid of it.

Customers: If you are in a Store with your wife, one of you ALWAYS have eyes to front.
Do not stand side by side, face one another to watch front, and each others back.


Folks, this is 1980 again, in regard to gold being over $800 an ounce, the economy is bad an everything else.

You have a right to go to a Jlry Store, or Coin Dealer, or anything nice and "portable forms of medium of exchanges".

Do not advertise you are going in the first place, and do not advertise entering, while inside, or leaving.

Various Models of Criminals have various MOAs to fit their needs.

From the street thug, to the gang related, to Professional.

Not only will criminals hit a store, they will hit an individual that advertised and the goods are tossed into a Fed Ex box and the mdse is gone.

They have accounts, and mailing addresses.
They will pop a store , or your house, toss the goods in a Fed Ex or other delivery service with a drop box, with an account and gone.

During 1980, some thugs just stole the delivery truck. One example is Dental.
It was pretty obvious an area was Dental Labs. They use gold, and Xray has silver.
Just steal the truck while in this setting of Dental Labs.

I know of another instance, where a mall with Jlry stores had a truck stolen, it was pretty obvious Jlry was being sent to and from that truck. Ironic is, two traveling sales reps were shot after being followed out of that mall later in the day.
One was a Jlry sales rep the other pharmaceutical rep.

My point is, I and others around stress ADEE, and Software, not Hardware for a reason.
Yes, wear the darn gun. It is part of the tool kit, not THE tool kit.

I would like to see the street video. My experience say the earliest signal was on the street.
A double front door would have slowed down the entry. This is a set up I suggest often, for a number of businesses. The customer enters, and there is a lobby. They cannot enter the special locked door until ID is confirmed.
Just as is used for labs, certain medical facilities , banks, etc.



Watch the opening scene of Beverly Hills Cop, the one where they enter a Jlry store and take it down.

One situation I was in, was real darn close to that one. These criminals were good, very good. They got past the locked door after entering the street door. The first signal was the sound of glass being smashed, and a 12 ga going off.

I knew the business owners, we had spent time on practiced plans. I was out of sight in the back. I locked down the back, steel gates, escaped with a employees child, and my role was to observe and report.

I could not help those up front, it happened too fast. The child was drawing me a picture, she froze, then "mommie!". There is no way to express this in typed words. Her eyes, her body, my hand over her mouth, and the smell of fear. She was almost age 5.

Later...
If you can stand there and watch a little girl run to her mom, and these two embrace one another and not get a tear, you are a better man than I am.

The tested cover held, not a bullet one penetrated.

Nobody got shot, the mdse was insured, everybody went home. WE call that a win.
WE also review, revise, and work on the Avoid, Prevent, and how fast can we get a early signal something is going down.

The economy is bad, gold is over $800 an ounce, and it is that time of year.
This could be your local mom and pop store, chain store at the mall, and it could be any business.


Be careful out there. - Hill Street Blues
 
Ouch. Notice as they leave they shoot another burst, one of which you see appear as a bloody hole in the woman's back a second later.

The police commander goes for his pistol, you can see him going for something at 10 seconds into the video. If you cut out the video and go frame by frame it seems he is going for a weapon, not just reacting to a shot. He goes down before he can retrieve it though, almost in the same motion so its hard to catch.

The armed target seems alert. He looks over towards the door while his wife is still intent on a piece of jewelry. He almost immediately goes to draw his weapon, likely at the moment the security guard is cut down. Then a massive barrage of gunfire cuts the three in the center of the store down before the officer can even get his pistol out.
All 4 are hit within the first couple seconds.

Since one of the individuals responsible was hit by friendly gunfire he left DNA at the scene.
Cut down by one of his fellow assassins. He also left quite a bit of blood on the ground during the brief time he was down. That means underground medical help was probably not swift enough to save him, and he couldn't really go to the local hospital. Not likely to be alive, probably disposed of after dying.


Since many people clearly chose not to read the story before commenting the individuals shot are as follows:
The security guard not in Camera angle 1 or 2 near the door.
The man in the center of the store and the woman in the white shirt are the likely intended targets, a police commander and his wife. The woman behind them was a struggling mother that just made ends meet by selling cheap jewelry.

Near the end they speculate on likely reasons for the killing:
One theory is that the killers ambushed Espinosa to send a message to San Pedro's director of public safety, Rogelio Lozano, whose family owns a chain of jewelry stores that included the shop attacked.

"The citizens have to guess," said Marcos, the businessman and San Pedro community activist. "One guess is that [Espinosa] was involved with one gang and the other killed him. Or there's the one that you'd like to believe, which is that, for having done his job, they killed him."

Earlier in the story it also mentions he arrested some individuals he was taking to court later.

Arguably I would say the police commander was the luckiest of those killed. He got to die for the his choices and beliefs in life. Everyone else was taken along with him, dying for something they were not even a part of, for a struggle they never chose to be involved in.
 
Arguably I would say the police commander was the luckiest of those killed. He got to die for the his choices and beliefs in life. Everyone else was taken along with him, dying for something they were not even a part of, for a struggle they never chose to be involved in.

Yep, he is really lucky. He is just as dead, but really lucky. He was lucky in that he saw the attack coming and he knew that he and his wife were screwed and there wasn't anything he could do about it. He probably died knowing others were injured or killed as a result as well.

Sorry, there is no sense of being "lucky" in that sort of situation.
 
Dirty Dawg said:
You're preaching to the choir. Further, I would encourage you to send an email to the reporter of the above referenced article to enlighten him.

Good idea...

Thanks for the article. At this rate, there is no longer hope for my blood pressure to go down, just hope for a quick exit!

;)
 
That's a mess. Situational awareness wouldn't have done anything here. One reason is that there is no defensible position in the place, no cover, nothing.

These folks didn't stand a chance.
 
Goes to show how quickly things can happen. As prepared as we may think we are for a shootout the fact is it can be over before you even knew it began.

Also clearly shows some people have absolutely no regard for human life and will kill indiscriminately.
 
Sometimes your number is just up. Can't do a thing about it. Scumbags. :fire:
 
Goes to show how quickly things can happen. As prepared as we may think we are for a shootout the fact is it can be over before you even knew it began.

yeah, watch the woman in black, in the back in angle one. She was looking away from the door, from the movement of her hair, it looks like she took one to the head...never even knew what hit her..sad

It appears that the last guys rifle jammed, so he pulled his pistol to finish the guard off.
 
Zoogster,
scrat.
Double Naught Spy,

I have a LOT of respect for you folks. I pay attention to what you share, I conduct searches under your respective user names.
I have shared a lot of what you have posted with my tight circle, which means a lot.

We might not always agree, but for me, I agree to disagree, and pay real close attention to what you share, as I could be wrong, or I need to view from your perspectives, glean from your experiences.

All any of us can really share are our experiences and observations.

We each bring something to the table, and one is wise to pay attention. While it might not apply to you, it might later on, or be something another person needs to know.

This 23 seconds of hell, is a teaching tool, lesson plan, reality check.
Sure we need to be concerned about Borders, Gangs, and whatever else.

My contention is, too many folks will see that video and :

a. Get into politics, borders, gangs, government ...and not

b. Not apply to where they live . I don't care if in the USA, or anywhere on the globe. WE are a Global society.

And the first person that suggests to someone in the UK, NZ or other restricted country to move to the USA deserves a hickory axe handle applied about the head and body.

Some folks don't get "it", some folks don't want "it" and some folks would not know "it" , if "it" walked up and kicked them in the gonads.
- Lee Lapin

One never knows the where or when of their next encounter
- C.R.Sam

I do not care if you live in a restricted area of the USA, or live in a open carry area.
Quit defaulting to the damn gun for a solution to every friggin' problem!!

You do not know if another customer in the dry cleaners you frequent :

a. drives a car like the one used to diss (disrespect) a gang banger.

b. some gal going through menopause and hormones are whacked out has a beef with the dry cleaners about a silk blouse and decides to go berserk

c. dry cleaners has been cased, and the $ 200 - $500 for cash register change , is coming back with the boss/mgr.
Every darn day, this bank run is made like clockwork and ...time for a take down.

d. Dudes watched a fella at the bank get $1200.00 in cash to go shopping, they tailed him to the dry cleaners and it looks like a easier take down than a bank setting around the corner...

In the blink of an eye your world just went to hell-in-a-hand basket.

Sheesh, all you were doing was dropping off or picking up dry cleaning.

All the examples I gave are true btw.

Example B was stopped by a 15 year Jewish girl visiting from Israel.
She sensed something, her gut was screaming and she used a 6 1/2 ounce bottle of Coca Cola she retrieved from a Coke machine she paid 5cents for .

She never got the Coke open, she instead went toward gun, strong hand going for gun in ladies left hand, and holding the bottle at the bottom went up and under the chin.


I screwed up big time, and I have shared this before. I missed a signal. This one cause me a whole lot of pain and recovery time and...

My "go" was the window behind my drivers window exploding...I survived this ordeal , though it did not look I did. I was pretty bad off before this situation ended.

Shoes.
Maintenance folks do not wear those kinds of shoes with their uniforms.
I missed that signal in a parking deck and hell erupted in the blink of an eye.

I am not "fond" of elevators, or parking decks. I have earned the right to not be "fond" of them.


Use these videos and news reports to assist you in the Mindset and Mental Game for you and yours wherever you live, whatever business you have, and wherever you shop.





Young'un, you may get knifed, shot, injured, maimed, or dead, but dammit-to hell do so under your terms, not the other son-of-a-biscuits terms.
When your time is up, just know you done good and folks will never know what you did for good while on earth. We will be waiting at the Big Quail Hunt , and will have the dawgs ready , the coveys spotted and a 28 ga ready when you get here.
- Mentors.
 
That certainly was no robbery.

The second gunman took the time to put finishing shots into everyone that was hit (excepting the first gunman). Pistol the the guard and what looks like finishing shots with the AK variant.

Also it looks like the gunmen considered themselves safe as they took the time to come back to retrieve weapons.
 
That video is a perfect example of how you can be very well trained, be paying attention, armed ( with anything really) and still, your dead.
 
Unlike in SM's situations this is most likely an assassination, not a robbery.
Four men armed with full auto fire going for one purpose, to assassinate the police commander out on foot with his wife.

This situation is very different from a robbery. The bad guys are not trying to get in close and take or demand items, they are trying to put as many bullets in the target as quickly as possible, idealy before he realizes the threat and can react.

If multiple well armed trained men want to assassinate a lone target out on foot, and can wait for the perfect opportunity, there is not really much the intended target can do by himself.
Anyone can be assassinated, especialy someone that goes in public on a regular basis. The target was armed and he was alert. In all honesty there is not much he could have done.
The assassins were swift, they ran up to the store, dropped the guard with a large burst and almost immediately saturated the intended target with lead.

The first guy through the door targeted the police commander, the assassin that would be hit by gunfire. The second, third and fourth sprayed the guard. Camera angle 3 shows it the best. Assassin #1 who was hit by fire ran in and almost immediately fired upon the target with his AK.

There was no pauses to allow reaction, no demand for money or jewelry, and half of the shooters never even entered the store until after the target was downed. These were not armed men approaching, these were assassins who opened fire as soon as the targets were visible.
They can clearly be seen running from the side out of view in camera angle 3 as well, they didnt come from across the street where they would be in view through the glass of the store. So the alert officer would not have seen armed men running up until about the point they opened fire.

The guy was a target for assassination, and in that situation there was nothing he could do. He went for his weapon as soon as the assassins arrived. However Assassin #1 opened fire immediately. #2 downed the guard, and #3 and #4 joined in spraying the guard which hit #1 either directly or from one of the many likely richochets as you can see bullets sparking off the ground. They were already shooting in his direction with multiple rifles and everyone was downed within 1-2 seconds of the first guy even being visible and entering the store. In a place where he had no nearby cover.
You can even see his wife practicly ran at the start and was downed almost a split second later. There was no going for cover, and there was no chance for the officer with a holstered pistol to take on those men who opened fire on sight with rifles at the ready.
Everyone was downed within 1-2 seconds, and you can see that most clearly in the finaly video with all three angles combined.

Assassin #2 was ruthless, spraying the guard at close range, helping the fallen assassin #1 up, firing a further burst into the downed officer and his wife, pulling his pistol to fire some more rounds into the downed guard, and then retrieving the AK lost by the downed assassin while assassin #3 and #4 took the wounded to a getaway vehicle. The 4 in the store were downed in 1-2 seconds, and the entire incident and escape over in well under 30 seconds. Quicker than a local would have been able to place a call to 911 and tell them what was going on if they took out a phone and placed a call immediately at the start.

The article also mentions some of the local SWAT team left the force and are believed to have joined the cartel. Many of the cartel shooters are also often former Mexican military often trained by US special forces and US LEO (ironicly to battle cartels.) So some in the cartels have some decent training.
 
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Yep, he is really lucky. He is just as dead, but really lucky. He was lucky in that he saw the attack coming and he knew that he and his wife were screwed and there wasn't anything he could do about it. He probably died knowing others were injured or killed as a result as well.

Sorry, there is no sense of being "lucky" in that sort of situation.

Only thing lucky was perp #1 taking his buddy's bullet.
 
That video is a perfect example of how you can be very well trained, be paying attention, armed ( with anything really) and still, your dead.

Yep.

When its your time to check out, you check out.

The only thing left when you die is that which don't burn.
Guns, ammo, knives, diplomas, certs, photos, and everything else will burn.

Pass forward to another, tell someone you care about them, never go to bed on angry note with another...

These things will not burn.

There are no absolutes in life. About the only one I can thing of is, is if something takes life, someday it will die.
So in essence we are all dying, just it has not finalized yet.


Call me old school, old fashioned, even sentimental. While I have nothing against guns, I know a gun is just one tool in the tool box.

I could care less about what gun TEEM SEEL uses, or what gun for Zombies.
I do not own a thigh holster, nor do I need a different one for each day of the week.

What I care about is someone buying a new or even good used .22 single shot rifle for a kid to learn how to shoot with.

Donating a box of corn dawgs to a kids event...

Babysitting the kids and doing domestic chores so a wife, daughter can go get lessons, take a CCW class, take a training class, or go assist others by passing forward what they can.

Giving those hugs,and getting a big hug from a kid with big eyes when they get to keep that .22 rifle you gave them, or for box of .22s or those neat target dot, or for cooking them a burger ...

You may wake up dead 10 min later, but only the things that don't burn truly count.

"That nice man is the one that helped me learn to shoot"

"That co-worker, she and her daughter invited me and my daughter to a range party and...

"He taught me now to freehand sharpen a knife..."

"That fella made target stands for the club"

"Instead of buying a new gun, that person helped a lady get a CCW permit/ license..."

"That was the shoe shop repair lady that altered my belt, holster, to fit me better, and did not even charge me..."


Some stuff don't burn...
 
Why in the world is this being posted? It happened nearly two years ago.
 
yet they will still blame the full-auto AKs on the US's 'lax gun laws'.

there was nothing to be done for them other than to had not have been there.
 
The police commander goes for his pistol, you can see him going for something at 10 seconds into the video. If you cut out the video and go frame by frame it seems he is going for a weapon, not just reacting to a shot. He goes down before he can retrieve it though, almost in the same motion so its hard to catch.
I think one of the first shots hit him in the right hip. If you look closely (and play around until you get the video paused at the right moment) you'll see his cover garment billow over his right hip before he begins to react. I think he's actually reaching for the wound, not for his gun.
 
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