Four safety rules? Why not just one?

[MASTEROFMALICE]

Now don't get me wrong. I know some people already don't follow the rules as they exist. I also know that my simplification of the rules requires a small amount of thought and reason which some people are just incapable of, but I'll let you guys hear it and tell me what you think.

The only safety rule you REALLY need to remember is to treat every gun as if it is loaded. The other three rules are simply offshoots of that one.

1. If you treat a gun as if it is loaded, by extension, you wouldn't want to point it at things you didn't want to shoot. Would you point a loaded firearm at your toddler? If the answer is yes, you probably should be wearing either a straight-jacket or an orange jumpsuit. When people wave guns around and you call them on it the first words out of them are usually, "It's O.K. It's unloaded." No it isn't O.K. And treat it as if it WAS loaded.

2. If you treat every gun as if it was loaded, then keeping your finger off the trigger until you are on target is actually just and offshoot of the above rule. It really goes hand-in-hand with muzzle awareness. You shouldn't be waving the gun around, and you sure shouldn't be doing it with your finger on the trigger. If you had a loaded gun, you wouldn't want to keep you finger on the trigger because it might go off, right? After all, the gun is loaded which means it can fire. And if the gun isn't loaded, and you've double checked to make sure the gun isn't loaded, it's STILL loaded and so can STILL fire.

3. Be sure of your target and beyond. This really goes right back to the above rule again and all the same arguments apply.

As I wrote this up it occurred to me that you could just as easily make rule two the "one rule". After all, the other three also revolve around not pointing your gun at everything. If you ever notice, when some fool shoots himself or a friend everyone on the board with pipe up and tell the world that he "violated three of the rules." There's a reason for that, they all overlap, and it's arguably impossible to break one without also breaking others.

So, my morning ramble is done, who wants to pick it apart now?

 

[spwenger]

Perhaps It's Because...

...some people were observed to do stupid things with firearms they knew to be loaded.

The nice thing about the Four Rules is that, as you have suggested, they have a built-in safety redundancy. This means, for example, that if you inadvertently let the muzzle cross something that you're not prepared to shoot, you can't shoot it if your finger is outside the trigger guard.

Many instructors in Arizona also teach a fifth rule, maintain control of your firearm. This rule was formulated by the attorneys who present the Legal Issues portion of the DPS training for the state's CWP instructors and was based on their finding that most lawsuits (and most successful lawsuits) against gun owners stem not from wrongful shootings but from unauthorized access and misuse of their firearms.

This thread is a useful debate but one that would be more valuable in a setting where it would not be limited to preaching to the choir.

 

[doc2rn]

I liked your arguement, but to over simplify it. I saw a sig line yesterday that said keep your bugger pick off the bang switch. My gunny used to yell at some E-3 every time we went out and he used that phrase. Too bad he got promoted, I would have stayed in with First Sgt. Majors around.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

This thread is a useful debate but one that would be more valuable in a setting where it would not be limited to preaching to the choir.

Steven, I was going to post it on Better Homes and Gardens forum but I didn't see that going well.

Glad to see you came over here from packing.org. I'd like to see you post more. You're a veritable cornucopia of knowledge (I got THAT from Better Homes and Gardens)

 

[geekWithA.45]

Why isn't reducing it all to one rule a good idea?

Human nature.

Yes, a lot of people have the ability to grasp your one rule and derive the necessary action items from it, but even more folks simply don't.


In order for any set of instructions to be successful, they must unambiguous, direct, actionable, and as simple as possible.

"Treat it as loaded" isn't directly actionable, because it doesn't answer the question "how do I treat it?" The four rules covers that in a direct, actionable way. It also brings to the fore some points that aren't exactly obvious, and are the result of experience, rather than application of first principles

Rule 1 tells us that there is no configuration of gun that can be treated casually, and that there are no circumstances under which the following rules need not be considered.

Rule 2 tells us the obvious: don't point muzzle at anything you don't want destroyed.

Rule 3 isn't obvious. It's arrived at by long experience, and explained by the way biomechanics interacts with modern gun design. (As opposed to ancient, perhaps trigger discipline wasn't as important with uncocked flintlocks, or uncocked single action revolvers.)

Rule 4 also isn't obvious, especially to inexperienced gun handlers. Since a big part of the objective of the 4 rules is to educate, it makes sense that a common cause of unintended gun damage be acted against.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

That's fine. Then how about starting with conglomerating 2 and 4. Is there any difference between the two?

You can't be unaware of where your muzzle is pointing while at the same time be aware of your target. How can you be aware of your target if you don't know where the gun is pointed?

 

[outofbattery]

It'd be a fine single rule if it was only for someone who had no intent on shooting a firearm,just being able to safely handle it.However,just simply saying that one should treat a firearm as if it is always loaded doesn't really tell someone much other than perhaps they'd be best off to not hold it.It seems like a logical continuation of common sense,but given the number of ND's that "experienced" shooters experience,sometimes common sense alone just isn't enough.

 

[TX1911fan]

The great thing about the 4 rules is that in the event you HAVE to break one rule, you still have the other rules for protection. I would NEVER clean a loaded gun, but if I only have one rule, treat every gun like it is loaded, then I can't clean it, can I? I would never use a loaded gun in a classroom setting, but if I have to treat every gun as if it is loaded, I guess it's blue guns or airsoft only. I would never pile a bunch of loaded guns in my range bag to take to the range, but if I only have one rule, I guess I'm screwed. 4 rules provide redundancy, safety, and much more importantly, more closely approximate reality.

 

[antsi]

Better still...

I have an even better idea. Instead of just consolidating all firearm safety rules into one rule, let's consolidate all behavior into one universal rule. I like "Behave Wisely in All Circumstances."

All the firearm safety rules are pretty much covered by that. It also covers all good health practices, as well as good management of personal finances, changing the oil in your car, safe sex, and just about every other aspect of life.

Obvious problem - although the statement is wonderfully inclusive, it is also a bit lacking in detail. "Behave as if the firearm is loaded" is good advice, but the other three rules give helpful additional details.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

Why not just 1?

Because at the very least you need to "Be sure of your target and what's beyond".

Keeping the muzzle safely pointed and your finger off the trigger might logically fall under "rule one"--but rule four really doesn't. By aiming and firing you're obviously treating the weapon as if it were loaded--but you still need to know what's downrange for it to be a safe shot.

 

[230RN]

From:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4178366#post4178366

Double Naught Spy observed:

Whatever happened to the rule about opening the action when handing over a gun?

I don't recall that being one of the 4 rules of gun safety. Of course, since the gun was in for repair and so the action might not have been coming open.

Older Rem 700s had a defect that sometimes resulted in the discharging of a round when the handler would attempt to open the action to eject a live round. As I recall, there were several lawsuits over this.

Well, I do recall this as being one of the Ten Rules of gun safety when I was growing up. I'm sure others remember this as well, and just saying that "every gun is always loaded" doesn't cut it.

The "Ten Rules" covered circumstances of actual handling, not merely basic concepts to be extrapolated to actual handling.

I've always objected to the "condensation" of the Ten Rules to four, and I'll bet a lot of OTs agree.



Anyhow, I'll grant that if this particular firearm discharged on opening of the bolt, as you say the 700 used to, it might have been an "accidental" discharge. However, I've gone to the trouble of keeping a 5 gallon bucket of sand in my shop when I had one. So why didn't they have a "clearing barrel" of sand? Or why didn't they use it?

ETA No, it wasn't a gun shop, but a hobby machine shop where I would tinker with firearms. And I know 5 gallons of sand would not have stopped a high-power rifle bullet, but it probably would have stopped a .243 or about any common pistol round.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

I observe all the safety rules, including the ones the firearm manufacturer recommends, but my first rule is:

"Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction."

Even before I pick up a gun, I turn it to a safe direction, and same if I'm handing it or taking it to or from someone else.

Woody

 

[RKBABob]

Four safety rules? Why not just one?

Because some people are just too darned stupid for just one! ​

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

No doubt, Bob, but the biggest problem is that stupid people with do stupid things whether there are one rule, four rules, ten rules, or thousands of rules.

I'm of the mindset that if you can't follow one basic rule, you're most likely not going to have much better luck following more.

Do you want proof? Look up the traffic law in your state. I'd be willing to be there are at a MINIMUM 1000 rules to dictate how you drive. Do people still crash into each other? Yeah, they sure do. You'd probably do just as well having one law that just says "DON'T CRASH". The cold hard fact is, some people just shouldn't drive (such as 95% of people from New Jersey) and no amount of warning them is going to help.

I guess the real question is, have any of the other rules ever saved someone's life when the first rule didn't? Was someone going to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger in violation of rules two and three but stopped and said to himself, "But, I don't know what's behind him."

 

[Technosavant]

Then how about starting with conglomerating 2 and 4. Is there any difference between the two?

You can't be unaware of where your muzzle is pointing while at the same time be aware of your target. How can you be aware of your target if you don't know where the gun is pointed?

There is a difference. Rule 2 causes us to be aware of the muzzle direction at all times- whether simply handling guns or when actively preparing to fire. Rule 4 reminds us that when preparing to fire, it is not enough to THINK we know what we are shooting at; we must be absolutely certain of what we are shooting at, as well as where the bullets may end up due to missing or passing through the target.

I see the Four Rules as building upon themselves as you prepare to shoot. Rule 1 is used from the moment you see the gun, loaded or unloaded. Rule 2 begins the moment you pick it up. Rule 3 likewise. As you prepare to fire, Rule 4 comes into play, telling you to be careful as to where the bullets may end up.

Yes, in some ways they can be slightly redundant, but I fail to see how revamping them for brevity would gain anything. If anything, you would end up having to explain them more; as is they are quite comprehensive and easy to understand.

 

[Technosavant]

I'm of the mindset that if you can't follow one basic rule, you're most likely not going to have much better luck following more.

Certainly. But "don't shoot anybody" can be a little TOO brief and open to mistake. The person may say "but I didn't intend to do it." Well, the Four Rules tell you how to keep from harming anything when you didn't intend to do it. Follow any three of them and nobody gets hurt. Follow all four and you never have cause for embarrassment. Some things can't be boiled down to just ONE rule, and quite honestly, if a person can't handle four simple sentences, I am not likely to hand that person a lethal weapon, whether it be a car or a firearm.

 

[MT GUNNY]

Lets simplify the rules into one

#1 With the firearm loaded or not, always point in a direction that is safe,
while keeping finger off trigger

 

[TallPine]

One Rule to rule them all.

 

[El Tejon]

Yes, that would be Rule 3 which Cooper called The Golden Rule. In fact he wrote extensively on the importance of Rule 3 and that it trumped the others.

One does not treat guns as if they are loaded. ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.

There is no "treating". The guns are loaded as if they are not they are nothing more than clubs. ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.

 

[Regolith]

Because some people are just too darned stupid for just one!

Then the obvious distillation of the rules should be "Don't be stupid!"

 

[dmazur]

I kind of like the modified Rule #1 - "All guns are loaded until they are verified to be unloaded in the presence of all concerned"

Kind of like what they do at proper gun shops: Salesman takes rifle out of display rack, opens action, looks to verify, hands to customer. After customer reviews rifle, he opens action to hand it back to salesman.

I get really, really nervous at shops where they dispense with this formality. I know the rifles in the rack aren't loaded, but observing the protocol demonstrates the responsibility required to own firearms safely.

 

[Geronimo45]

The Four Rules exist for idiot-proofing purposes. Aside from some freakish event (such as a dropped STEN), they should cover most situations.

The finger-off-the-trigger rule seems the most questionable of the lot, IMO. Folks were running around with fingers on triggers in droves for several decades. I abide by that rule, but I'm still questioning it's validity. IOW, it works, might not be best. It seems to me that all those older folks wanting holsters cut away to get to the trigger might've known what they were talking about.