Freemasons???
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DigitalWarrior
Member
Scubie:
I am sorry that you were asked. I know it happens sometimes, usually from people who do not understand the gravity of what they have done. I have been told "I was asked to be a Mason" a dozen times or so. Usually on further inspection, the person admits to lying. Only once have I found a case where I believed a man was asked. I am not counting internet encounters like this. It has pretty severe consequences for the power of the symbolism. If you ever do decide to ask to become a Mason, do your best to forget that you were asked first, and the lessons will be more powerful.
I know it approaches fighting words. The truth can be harsh. The truth is that either the person making the claim is a liar, or the person who asked was in error. I am going to ask around about Grand Lodges that ask people if they want to join, so there may be a third category. Daggone innovators makin a liar out of me...
SD Will A
The browncoat handshake is punching an alliance guy in the face on unification day.
I am sorry that you were asked. I know it happens sometimes, usually from people who do not understand the gravity of what they have done. I have been told "I was asked to be a Mason" a dozen times or so. Usually on further inspection, the person admits to lying. Only once have I found a case where I believed a man was asked. I am not counting internet encounters like this. It has pretty severe consequences for the power of the symbolism. If you ever do decide to ask to become a Mason, do your best to forget that you were asked first, and the lessons will be more powerful.
I know it approaches fighting words. The truth can be harsh. The truth is that either the person making the claim is a liar, or the person who asked was in error. I am going to ask around about Grand Lodges that ask people if they want to join, so there may be a third category. Daggone innovators makin a liar out of me...
SD Will A
The browncoat handshake is punching an alliance guy in the face on unification day.
Erich
Member
I've had two Masons talk to me about what a great organization they thought it was and sort of leave it hanging - they didn't ask me if I wanted to join, but they made it clear that any interest on my part would be welcome.
Not really my cup of tea, though.
Not really my cup of tea, though.
Are other "social clubs" like the Elks and Moose and such considered to be along the same lines as the Masons? Or are they all pretty much just a place for middle aged men to get drunk...like the Elks and Moose? I know people who are Clampers and they seem to have been around a while (at least 3 to 4generations of family).
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
scubie02 said:Actually, I wasn't the one who made the statement, I was just thinking the answer to the person who did (who I don't know, btw) was a bit harsh.
Hope I'm not going to be hunted down now...
Sorry, I just hit reply and didn't look close enough to see who.
I am sure it does happen, but it is taught NOT to do that.
Like most things, the "old ways" seem to fade to newer ideas.
I can see why it would be done, membership has certainly slowed.
I think the hunting down has gone as well
Texfire
Member
Okay my curiosity is aroused. I had a friend in college whose father was a freemason, though I'm not sure I ever heard that from him. I remember being at his house one time along with my, and his son's, professor mentor. I remember him saying someting to my mentor along the lines of, "I hope someday you'll ask me a question."
Is a statement like borderline recruitment, and not considered cool by freemasons, or was is it an oblique compliment that my mentor was being offered? I have no idea if he ever asked the question, didn't seem like any of my business.
I have to admit I've wondered about the actuality of freemasonry. I've read some on the subject, but there's been so much written about it that I expect it's almost impossible for someone not in that tradition to sift the truth from the lies.
Tex
Is a statement like borderline recruitment, and not considered cool by freemasons, or was is it an oblique compliment that my mentor was being offered? I have no idea if he ever asked the question, didn't seem like any of my business.
I have to admit I've wondered about the actuality of freemasonry. I've read some on the subject, but there's been so much written about it that I expect it's almost impossible for someone not in that tradition to sift the truth from the lies.
Tex
Otony
Member
DigitalWarrior said:
Well, I don't know if you would interpret this as being asked, but a good friend who is a Mason told me I would like it, and that I should join. He never asked me to join up, he told me I should. Subtle differences perhaps? Some folks would interpret that as being asked, and may report it that way. I am reporting what he said.
Oh, and I am not a liar. I imagine there are plenty of Masons who have invited someone to join without realizing they were making a serious transgression. Ignorance is just as common as lying, but politeness is nicer in any case.
DigitalWarrior said:
Not being in "the loop" as it were, I guess I never saw it as something anyone would have to apologize for--I was flattered at the time to be asked. It was long enough ago I don't really recall the exact words, just that I was somewhat caught off guard and it was sort of sudden--he said something along the lones of "something you might want to think about" or something like that and gave me a book that I recall thinking of as a masons Bible or something of the like--probably some beginning book about Masons. I know I have been curious about it before but have also been somewhat uncomfotable with what I perceived as a religgious aspect. Now I am not one in general to throw my religion out at people, and honestly don't get to church too often, but I was raised pretty conservatively as a Christian and would be somewhat uncomfortable if it were something that sort of, well, if it were something where I would have to modify my beliefs in some way or anything. That may well not be the case--it might be very accepting of any religion, which is somewhat the feeling I got, but I would be uncomfotable performing religious like rituals...sort of hard to explain. I have no problems with others beliefs--that is between them and God, but I am somewhat stubbron in my own I guess. I guess I always didn't want to say "I'd be interested in joining" in case I found I was uncomfortable and didn't want to have to bow out and risk offending anyone, you know? I mean, the Bible says let you yea be yea and your nay be nay and thou shalt not swear--that sort of thing, and I get the feeling there's probably lots of oath-taking involved...
I'm right there with you on the Browncoats handshake though!
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I am a Christian and I found absolutely nothing I felt contradicted the Bible in any way.
I know that's the popular argument against, but I just don't see it.
I've never been asked to do anything that went against what I believe, not even close.
DigitalWarrior
Member
I apologize for sounding like I was going off all half-cocked, I see what you mean about some people thinking they had been asked. I would be thrilled to hear that somebody here decided to ask a question too. But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not tell someone I asked you. I might end up having a conversation I reallly don't want to have with an Easterner.
The reason an apology is due to being asked, is that it steals from the meaning of some of the ritual, and some of the lessons.
The only way I can describe it is imagine the impact of a lesson imparted two different ways:
1. I tell you "it is important to trust".
2. Imagine that I took you by the hand, asked if you trusted me, and jumped into a darkened abyss, dragging you with me. Then you find that you are caught by the lodge.
The emotional impact is different.
Nothing we swear will interfere with your obligations to God, your family, or your country. I find that my oaths are promises to be good. I have and would promise to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foriegn and domestic. If you want to discuss it further... [email protected]
Will Albenzi
The reason an apology is due to being asked, is that it steals from the meaning of some of the ritual, and some of the lessons.
The only way I can describe it is imagine the impact of a lesson imparted two different ways:
1. I tell you "it is important to trust".
2. Imagine that I took you by the hand, asked if you trusted me, and jumped into a darkened abyss, dragging you with me. Then you find that you are caught by the lodge.
The emotional impact is different.
Best way to tell what is the truth and what is a lie, is to examine what is said, then ask yourself "Is this compatible with the behavior of the Masons I know (substitute George Washington if you don't know any)
Nothing we swear will interfere with your obligations to God, your family, or your country. I find that my oaths are promises to be good. I have and would promise to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foriegn and domestic. If you want to discuss it further... [email protected]
Will Albenzi
Pickups all over the county have these signs, to be one , just ask one,, masons.
It would have to be a real streach not to regard that as an invitation to join.
My GF was a past lodge master, twice and helped start 3 lodges as well as doing 20 years as a traveling examiner. He was a member over 50 years.
GM was OES for over 75 years, she made 96 years old .
None of the 5 children joined, and so far as I know, none of more than 20 GC joined.
I, personally, refuse to belong to a secret society, I refused OA in Scouts as it was secret and I have not changed my position, anything not open is not for me.
My GF never went Shrine, he said it was because he could not drink that much or often, I suspect he was not too happy with the playboy image of the Shriners as he was a Congregationalist, as well as a Mason.
It would have to be a real streach not to regard that as an invitation to join.
My GF was a past lodge master, twice and helped start 3 lodges as well as doing 20 years as a traveling examiner. He was a member over 50 years.
GM was OES for over 75 years, she made 96 years old .
None of the 5 children joined, and so far as I know, none of more than 20 GC joined.
I, personally, refuse to belong to a secret society, I refused OA in Scouts as it was secret and I have not changed my position, anything not open is not for me.
My GF never went Shrine, he said it was because he could not drink that much or often, I suspect he was not too happy with the playboy image of the Shriners as he was a Congregationalist, as well as a Mason.
shermacman said:Finding information about Freemasons is actually impossible!
If you google "freemason" you will find absolutely zero web pages.
They really do control the world, the web and the weather.
Try it for yourself!
go to the Barnes and Nobel they have a book there called Freemasions for Dummies! tells you all about them and how to join
Otony
Member
DigitalWarrior said:
Best thing I have read in this thread. I admire your reply sir.
mirage
Member
I am not a member, But my Grandfather was and my mother was in the Daughters of Job.
They never really said much about any of it.
I have always had an interest for some reason though.
They never really said much about any of it.
I have always had an interest for some reason though.
Hypnogator
Member
I'm a third generation Blue-Lodge Mason.
My father raised both my grandfather and me. He was Grand Master of Masons in the state of Iowa in 1975.
Masons aren't supposed to solicit members, which is why they are losing out in popularity to some organizations that do, like the Lions.
2 B 1 ASK 1
My father raised both my grandfather and me. He was Grand Master of Masons in the state of Iowa in 1975.
Masons aren't supposed to solicit members, which is why they are losing out in popularity to some organizations that do, like the Lions.
2 B 1 ASK 1
magnumcarry
Member
Can a born again christain that goes to church and beleives in God and Jesus be a mason? Or is this a Cult vs. Church kind of thing?
dzimmerm
Member
Memories
Digital Warrior,
I am sorry that my friend is not available for you to ask. His name is Stanton Jones. He died of cancer a few years ago. He lived, and I still live, in Columbus Ohio.
I asked Stanton about the freemasons as I was curious and had read several articles on them. I also had noted certain symbols and other trinkets Stanton had in his office which helped to bring the topic of freemasons up. I asked Stanton if he was a freemason. Stanton told me a few things about them and said he would be more than happy to sponser me into his lodge if I wanted to join. I told him I would think about it and did. After about a week of consideration I declined.
I am not sure he used the word sponser, but that was the impression I got, that it was a more or less by invitation only organization. Thinking back on what was said that may well have been my impression of the situation. As I did not pursue the matter it was not something I analyzed much until you called my veracity into question.
He did not ask me to join, out of the blue, with no prior promptings so I think Stanton is safe on that count. Since Stanton is not here to defend himself I will have to do the best I can with the memories I have of the situation.
I think Stantons middle initial was L. I am not sure if you can verify if he was a member if you want to go to the trouble of checking out that much of my story.
Stanton was also a member of an intelligence organization that was in place during , I think, WWII. From what he said he got called out from basic training, was given special training, and sometimes got to give orders to officers with much higher rank than himself. I wish I could remember the name of the group. I think it had a Sphinx as part of it's emblem. The group's members remained in contact after they all left the military and Stanton was the person who kept the mailing list for the group. I was the person that tried to keep Stanton's computer with said mail list working.
That is how we became friends. One hour of fixing his computer mixed in with about 4 hours of shooting the bull. Repeat that scene about every month or two and you get an idea of how we got to know each other over the course of several years.
Enough of my rambling, do you still think either I am a liar or Stanton is in trouble?
dzimmerm
Digital Warrior,
I am sorry that my friend is not available for you to ask. His name is Stanton Jones. He died of cancer a few years ago. He lived, and I still live, in Columbus Ohio.
I asked Stanton about the freemasons as I was curious and had read several articles on them. I also had noted certain symbols and other trinkets Stanton had in his office which helped to bring the topic of freemasons up. I asked Stanton if he was a freemason. Stanton told me a few things about them and said he would be more than happy to sponser me into his lodge if I wanted to join. I told him I would think about it and did. After about a week of consideration I declined.
I am not sure he used the word sponser, but that was the impression I got, that it was a more or less by invitation only organization. Thinking back on what was said that may well have been my impression of the situation. As I did not pursue the matter it was not something I analyzed much until you called my veracity into question.
He did not ask me to join, out of the blue, with no prior promptings so I think Stanton is safe on that count. Since Stanton is not here to defend himself I will have to do the best I can with the memories I have of the situation.
I think Stantons middle initial was L. I am not sure if you can verify if he was a member if you want to go to the trouble of checking out that much of my story.
Stanton was also a member of an intelligence organization that was in place during , I think, WWII. From what he said he got called out from basic training, was given special training, and sometimes got to give orders to officers with much higher rank than himself. I wish I could remember the name of the group. I think it had a Sphinx as part of it's emblem. The group's members remained in contact after they all left the military and Stanton was the person who kept the mailing list for the group. I was the person that tried to keep Stanton's computer with said mail list working.
That is how we became friends. One hour of fixing his computer mixed in with about 4 hours of shooting the bull. Repeat that scene about every month or two and you get an idea of how we got to know each other over the course of several years.
Enough of my rambling, do you still think either I am a liar or Stanton is in trouble?
dzimmerm
well, in your scenario though the others are right, then--he did not ask you, you expressed interest first, and he responded to your expressed interest. That is probably what they mean by most people who say they were asked really weren't--if you expressed the initial interest, then you started the conversation, they didn't.
In my own instance I did get the feeling that there had been somewhat of a faux pas committed (I'm sure masons see it as much worse than that apparently) and when things didn't work out with his granddaughter I simply returned the book as though it hadn't happened and never made mention of it. I only dicuss it here because of the anonymity of the internet since I know it wouldn't come back on him and cause any embarrassment or cutting off of fingers or anything. Actually, he was a little old man then, he may no longer even be living.
I do have to admit that its somewhat disconcerting that members seem so afraid of the repurcussions of such an action--seems somewhat ominous. I mean, I take my word seriously an am very good at keeping secrets if asked--there are any number of things that I have never shared because I was asked not to. But on the other hand...he was just a little old man who meant well, probably was torn and mortified by the fact that he had asked--I personally wouldn't be wanting to beat him up too much for it.
In my own instance I did get the feeling that there had been somewhat of a faux pas committed (I'm sure masons see it as much worse than that apparently) and when things didn't work out with his granddaughter I simply returned the book as though it hadn't happened and never made mention of it. I only dicuss it here because of the anonymity of the internet since I know it wouldn't come back on him and cause any embarrassment or cutting off of fingers or anything. Actually, he was a little old man then, he may no longer even be living.
I do have to admit that its somewhat disconcerting that members seem so afraid of the repurcussions of such an action--seems somewhat ominous. I mean, I take my word seriously an am very good at keeping secrets if asked--there are any number of things that I have never shared because I was asked not to. But on the other hand...he was just a little old man who meant well, probably was torn and mortified by the fact that he had asked--I personally wouldn't be wanting to beat him up too much for it.
answerguy
Member
shermacman said:Finding information about Freemasons is actually impossible!
If you google "freemason" you will find absolutely zero web pages.
They really do control the world, the web and the weather.
Try it for yourself!
Freemason comes just before the word 'gullible' in the dictionary.
Texfire
Member
scubie02 said:
Oh come now. This isn't a movie about the mafia or yakuza. I can understand ignorance about an orginization that doesn't talk about itself, but if you're going to reach for stories of masonic retaliation try "The Cask of Amontillado". Even that only features one mason and one murderer who claims masonic status.
Tex
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
scubie02 said:
It has nothing to do with secret anything.
The tradition has always been that people will find their way to the Masons on their own. That's all. No conspiracies or secrets. The reasoning is that there should never be any pressure on someone to join ANY group they don't WANT to.
If your boss is pitching Amway to you every day, you might feel like you need to be an Amway dealer to protect your job right? The Masons don't want anyone to join just because they think it might help their career or whatever. No organization wants its members to join for the wrong reasons.
One famous member, John Paul Jones, was well known to have joined for that kind of reason, and after he moved to Europe he hung out in Masonic Temples hoping to make some new political connections. Since everyone knew that's what he was after, it didn't work out for him.
So, since that is the tradition and the way it's taught, it's always somewhat disheartening to see the old traditions give way to more convenient ways of growing the membership ranks.
The "2B1ASK1" stickers certainly leave it WIDE open to know who to ask if you're interested right?
So, that helps promote awareness, gives people an idea of WHO to ask if they want to, but preserves the tradition of still requiring someone to ask. It's all way too reasonable and uncomplicated.
It does not appear that happened here, since in this scenario the non member talked about it first. That would be good enough for me to begin talking about it in response.
NavajoNPaleFace
Member
I am not a Mason but I find this thread, and the posts, to be one of the most interesting non-gun threads I have read.
I, too, have always thought the Masons were a super secretive "we don't exist" group.
Thanks for shedding some truth to the myth.
I, too, have always thought the Masons were a super secretive "we don't exist" group.
Thanks for shedding some truth to the myth.
NRAMember
Member
I am a relatively "new" member myself. Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite, and Shrine.
I am also new here, just joining the forum today. I was looking for a review on a handgun my cousin won at a gun bash, and found this site. The first post I noticed after joining had "Freemasons" in it, and I was wondering how the discussion would go, which is pretty much positive. Looks like a good forum already, with discussions of firearms, RKBA, and Freemasons.
I look forward to some good discussions!
I am also new here, just joining the forum today. I was looking for a review on a handgun my cousin won at a gun bash, and found this site. The first post I noticed after joining had "Freemasons" in it, and I was wondering how the discussion would go, which is pretty much positive. Looks like a good forum already, with discussions of firearms, RKBA, and Freemasons.
I look forward to some good discussions!
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