From Father to Son, is this a straw purchase?

[Nolo]

Well, as some of you are aware, I just got my first rifle, an Enfield No. 4 Mark. I. Of course, in actuality, my dad got a new rifle, the aforementioned. Ugh. Okay, so we talked to the FFL for a while when we were picking it up, and he said that we must go back to him to "transfer the weapon" from my father to me when I'm 18. He said it would normally cost a fee like a normal transfer, but that he'd do it for free. That doesn't sound too much like someone who is trying to jip us, but it also doesn't sound right. Note that I did pay for the rifle. Does this count as a straw purchase? Can't my dad just give the rifle to me when I'm eighteen, no paperwork required?
I am confused.
Note that I live in Maryland.

 

[Cosmoline]

e must go back to him to "transfer the weapon" from my father to me when I'm 18

Huh? Does VA ban person-to-person in state transfers? Your FFL is smoking something, or the story has been mangled in translation.

The ffl is not doing a contingent sale. All rights in the firearm go from the dealer to your father. Your father can then, assuming state law allows it, let you use the firearm. And indeed he can take it away, as was pointed out in another thread re. parents and guns. That's not a transfer, it's just being a dad. When you are of age, he can transfer it to you FTF like anyone else. Unless VA has banned the practice there's no need to go through a dealer. The only way a second check would happen is if he consigned it with the dealer and you bought it.

In the mean time, it's not really your firearm. It's your dad's. That may have been what the dealer was getting at.

 

[Nolo]

Huh? Does VA ban person-to-person in state transfers? Your FFL is smoking something, or the story has been mangled in translation.

Dude, read the end of my post. I gotta fix my location.

 

[nalioth]

Note that I live in Maryland.

Therein, lies the rub.

Maryland and it's cities have gone way beyond federal laws on this subject.

If you lived in Texas, it'd be all aboveboard, since under the federal laws, it's ok for pop (or mom) to buy his (or her) minor son (or daughter) a firearm.
Were this Texas, I'd also say the FFL holder was fear-mongering to make a buck.

Since you live in MD, I have no idea what to tell you.

 

[Nolo]

Therein, lies the rub.

Maryland and it's cities have gone way beyond federal laws on this subject.

If you lived in Texas, it'd be all aboveboard, since under the federal laws, it's ok for pop (or mom) to buy his (or her) minor son (or daughter) a firearm.
Were this Texas, I'd also say the FFL holder was fear-mongering to make a buck.

Since you live in MD, I have no idea what to tell you.

I am moving to Texas in less than a month, but my residency will not change as of yet (though I will if it makes a difference). Will I be able to transfer it in Texas even if I don't hold residency there?

 

[Cosmoline]

I gotta fix my location.

Do it! I don't know nothin' about Mary Land.

 

[Nolo]

Fixed my loc, finally.
Just been lazy, is all.
It was an old habit from when I was much younger to lie about my location on the 'Net. Definitely one of the few times my parents have ever told me to lie.
The thing is, I cannot find any definitive source on the firearm laws in MD. There's nothing on the Internet whatsoever.

 

[Black Knight]

Unless the change took place on July 1 your FFL is feeding you hogwash. I did the same for my step-son a few years ago but paid for it myself with no problems. It was a birthday present for him. I don't believe it is a straw purchase considering it is family and both are not otherwise prohibited from possessing it.

 

[jr_roosa]

Will I be able to transfer it in Texas even if I don't hold residency there?

Here's a short answer:

Dad resides in MD, You reside in MD=MD laws govern transfer

Dad resides in TX, You reside in TX=TX laws govern transfer

Dad resides in MD, You reside in TX=transfer must go through an FFL to be legal.

In state transfers are limited by state laws...some are really easy, others are not.

Transfers between residents of different states fall under federal law and require the transfer to go through an FFL holder (gun dealer).

I live in a state with very loose gun laws, and I've been told not to bother with the FFL to get guns from my dad who lives in another state. I think it's not worth $35 to risk breaking federal gun laws, losing all my guns, and maybe losing my professional license as well.

-J.

 

[Nolo]

A.) I cannot find a source for MD law. This is one of the reasons I got an Enfield and not a Saiga or something "scary".
B.) My father holds NH residency. I hold MD residency. I may in the future hold TX residency.
I guess he's right, then. Can anyone find the MD law anyway?

 

[DEDON45]

I don't know... maybe there's some info on the NRA ILA site, or maybe packing.org... I know in my state (SC) there's no such restriction or rule... gifts or person to person transfers can all be done without stupid paperwork or govt. involvement. Heck, they just passed (I believe) a law here that states adults age 18 to 21 can possess a handgun, they just can't purchase one (in other words the gift clause applies)... Of course this is the same state that passed a 2nd Amendment Appreciation Tax Holiday recently.. the weekend after Thanksgiving, no Sales tax on firearm purchases up to 2000.00.

I do think I've heard that in California they do require paperwork, etc. for even a gifting of a firearm to be legal... how ridiculous.

 

[markk]

...
Note that I did pay for the rifle. Does this count as a straw purchase?
...

If your father took your money and filled out the 4473 to buy said rifle for you in order to circumvent the fact that you are not yet 18, then yes he did, in fact, commit a strawman purchase...

Had it been purchased with his money as a gift or had he purchased it, decided he didn't like it, and sold it to you, that would be a different story.

 

[Nolo]

If your father took your money and filled out the 4473 to buy said rifle for you in order to circumvent the fact that you are not yet 18, then yes he did, in fact commit a strawman purchase...

I have not yet given him the money. Make it a Christmas present, then?

 

[MAKster]

If you and your father are residents of different states, even if he gives you the gun as a gift it must be transfered through a FFL in your state of residence.

 

[markk]

I have not yet given him the money. Make it a Christmas present, then?

See the second line I added to my response...

 

[Nolo]

Okeedokee.

 

[Drgong]

it is a interstate transfer, so go though the FFL.

 

[Z-Michigan]

A.) I cannot find a source for MD law.
b) Can anyone find the MD law anyway?

1) Go to nraila.org for basic info
2) BATFE maintains a list of what it believes to be the firearms laws in each state. This would be a good second reference.
3) Some state police departments also maintain a list (complete in their view) of what the state's firearms laws are. Check website of your state police department. If not there, check website of your state Attorney General. I wouldn't call either one if you don't find it, however.
4) Look up the Maryland legislature website and start poking around to find statutes, then search those statutes for "firearms."

 

[psyopspec]

Wow, lots of noise in the signal for 18 posts. Markk was correct in that the actual purchase, as you described it in the first post, is in fact a strawman purchase since your father was not the actual purchaser of the firearm (you would have been if you'd have fronted the money). However, since you did not pay him, things are groovy.

 

[Nolo]

Wow, lots of noise in the signal for 18 posts. Markk was correct in that the actual purchase, as you described it in the first post, is in fact a strawman purchase since your father was not the actual purchaser of the firearm (you would have been if you'd have fronted the money). However, since you did not pay him, things are groovy.

YET. I have not payed him YET. He'll want money for it, but, like I said, it'll just have to be a Christmas present, I suppose...
Or...
Does it count as a straw purchase if I do yardwork for him?

 

[ProficientRifleman]

It would only be a straw-man sale if YOU were a prohibited person.

If Daddy bought it as a gift for you, and you are not prohibited, then there is no problem.

 

[kingpin008]

Nolo - you might want to check out mdshooters.com

Plenty of local help for ya.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

YET. I have not payed him YET. He'll want money for it, but, like I said, it'll just have to be a Christmas present, I suppose...
Or...
Does it count as a straw purchase if I do yardwork for him?

Yes.

Get with the program. This is all CLEARLY spelled out on the BATFE FAQ site. Anyone who purchases a firearm for someone who is not eligible to purchase it for him/herself is making a straw purchase.

Assuming no state laws are violated, a parent may purchase a firearm and GIVE it to an offspring (or to anyone else, for that matter). If you set out to repay the amount of the purchase, either in dollars or in barter, then it isn't really a gift, is it? It's ... a straw purchase.

 

[Nolo]

Get with the program. This is all CLEARLY spelled out on the BATFE FAQ site. Anyone who purchases a firearm for someone who is not eligible to purchase it for him/herself is making a straw purchase.

Assuming no state laws are violated, a parent may purchase a firearm and GIVE it to an offspring (or to anyone else, for that matter). If you set out to repay the amount of the purchase, either in dollars or in barter, then it isn't really a gift, is it? It's ... a straw purchase.

Dude, no need to be mean. I'm not a criminal. It'll work out. I had to earn the money myself, and maybe I'll buy it off of my dad when I'm of age. It's not in my possession now, and it won't be until next school semester (when I'll be 18).
I perfectly intend to do things legally, and so does my father, but I have found no authority for the law in my state as of yet, though I have just been directed to some. As I said before, he has not received the money yet. And now I will wait until I am 18 to pay him back, and do it through the FFL and such.
Now, everyone else here has been very cordial to me, and I believe that you can as well.
The yardwork thing was a joke.

 

[Librarian]

A link covering part of Maryland Gun Laws appears to be http://mdgunsafety.com/

Welcome to the Maryland Police Training Commission Firearms Safety Training Site.

See the links along the left side.

Maryland code is on line at
http://www.michie.com/maryland/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&2.0

That's hardly more than pointing at a shelf and saying "Look! There's a book!". A useful narrowing is Criminal Law/ Title 4 Weapon Crimes, but I'm not familiar enough with MD law to know any more than that - and I bet a thorough study would find applicable laws in other places.

http://mdshooters.com looks OK, but their "Maryland 2A Issues" forum, as most forums, isn't organized as a general reference for new owners / new MD residents, so figuring out what question to ask is the trick.