Straw Purchase?

[yesit'sloaded]

Purely hypothetical question: Is it ok for someone to buy a gun for you as long as you can legally own the gun? I am over 18 but under 21 and cannot buy from an ffl, however I can legally own ,posses, and open carry any handgun. Would it be a straw purchase for my father to buy me a gun since I can own it? I'm in the strange weirdness of law right now and have not quite figured it all out. Another crazy thing is that my Dad can buy me a beer as long as I drink it at the table with him, but I can't buy him one back.

 

[striker3]

Your father can buy you a firearm as a gift and give it to you. The flip side is that if you compensate him in anyway, then it is not a gift and would be a straw purchase. I am not a lawyer and may be wrong, but that is how I have usually seen it interperted.

 

[larry_minn]

Some states are different. The (easiest) way is for you and your father to go to a gun store. (not Wally World but a real gun store or at least a sporting goods/gun store) and ask the clerk. Trust me they are VERY concerned about not breaking any law. (or even comming close to a grey area)
In most states it is legal for a parent/gardian to buy a firearm and gift it to their son/daughter.
That is easiest/cheapest to find out in your area. Wally World will likely tell you "OF course NOT" a hunting sporting goods store will give you the law.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

That seems like a good idea. I keep hoping to find a private seller at a gun show, but nobody ever seems to have a good gun at the right price.

 

[Regolith]

I'm fairly certain that gifts given to immediate relatives are not considered straw purchases so long as that person is legally able to own a firearm.

 

[Tom Servo]

"Legally eligible" are the magic words.

Say I bought a gun and gave it to my brother. He waits six months, then uses it to shoot up a liquor store.

There are two possibilities: 1) he was kosher at the time I gave him the gun, but he snapped six months later, or 2) I bought a gun for him, knowing that he couldn't buy one on his own.

Option 2 gets you into serious trouble, the other will get you put under scrutiny, but not in jail. It's a real gray area. If they can prove that you knew the guy was ineligible, it'll be called a straw purchase.

The trick is to be sure the person you're giving it to is on the level. A law-abiding spouse or family member is no problem. Your neighbor's brother's buddy "from the old days" is not.

Another crazy thing is that my Dad can buy me a beer as long as I drink it at the table with him, but I can't buy him one back.

I'd take advantage of that one as long as I could

 

[yesit'sloaded]

I can pass the background check needed to buy my mosins. I assume that is the exact same check needed to buy a pistol. I can buy handguns legally now, just not from an FFL. So I guess my dad could buy it, and then I could buy it from him since he is not an FFL. Or is that just a drawn out straw purchase?

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

C'mon man, its your dad...Why are you even asking us? If your dad got you a gun with money that YOU gave him, who in the H*** is going to know? You said it yourself, you can legally own/carry a handgun. Why bother wasting anymore of your time asking pointless questions?


*Note, I am not condoning straw purchases by any means.

 

[MisterPX]

Irregardless is the fact that the person to recieve the firearm can buy one on their own. What matters is source of funds, pretty much follow the money. If yous dad got you pistol for your birthday, A OK. If you give him money ot buy it for you, you're putting him in jeopardy.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I tend to agree with Bazooka Joe71 on this one. You give dad $400 or whatever in cash as a gift, just 'cause he's your dad and you want to pay him a token for all he's done for you all these years.

He's moved by your expression of love and gives you a brand spankin' new S&W or whatever as a thank you gift.

Once your dad buys the gun, it's his to do with whatever he pleases (legally, of course). The deal is - he is responsible to ensure that whomever he gives/sells it to is legal to own it. I wouldn't worry about the BATF knocking on your door on this one - unless you go out and commit a crime with the gun.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Thanks for the info.

 

[novaDAK]

just an unimportant question...are you in VA by any chance? Sounds like the laws here

if you end up getting it as a gift, get him to buy you some ammo too to feed it since if you're under 21 you can't get 'handgun' ammunition from the store. (unless it's for a 'rifle' or 'carbine' )

When I turned 18 not too long ago, my dad got me a Ruger 9mm as a gift so I could have my own gun to shoot with him when we went shooting, and a 9mm just because it was back when you could get Winchester USA 100rd boxes for $9.99 (ahh those were the days ) I now have 7 handguns of my own, all gifts, and yes I did repay both my parents for their kindness

 

[yesit'sloaded]

I might have a .38 carbine stashed somewhere...oh yeah, it's right next to my .45 acp lever action. Or maybe I could just buy more rifles and shotguns until next November when I get my CW permit and can buy handguns. Nope not in VA, I'm in MS where no one usually thinks twice about guns, it's just the federal laws that get in the way.

 

[Zundfolge]

"Legally eligible" are the magic words.

"Legally eligible" is completely and absolutely IRRELEVENT in the case of a straw purchase.

You could straw purchase a gun for the chief of police and still be in violation of the law.


A straw purchase is illegal because when you fill out the form 4473 it asks you "are you the actual purchaser of this firearm" ... if you cannot HONESTLY answer that question yes, its a straw purchase.


Back to the OP:
If your dad buys a gun and then gives it to you as a gift*; NOT A STRAW PURCHASE.
If your dad buys a gun, brings it home and sells it to you*; NOT A STRAW PURCHASE.

If you give your dad the money to go down and buy a gun for you; BAM! STRAW PURCHASE.



The ATF has a series of training cartoons that can be viewed here:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/ltright.htm

#4 covers Straw Purchases.




*both require of course that it is legal for you to possess the gun in the first place.

 

[Frog48]

my Dad can buy me a beer as long as I drink it at the table with him

Free beer!!! Haha, enjoy it now, when you're of age he'll make you buy it yourself.

 

[Mainsail]

I'm fairly certain that gifts given to immediate relatives are not considered straw purchases so long as that person is legally able to own a firearm.

The way you have it all strung together says that it’s not a straw purchase as long as the person is legally able to own a firearm, which is incorrect. Even if the person you are gifting to is a convicted felon, a bona fide gift isn’t a straw purchase (although it is a whole different legal bee’s nest). I’m not bagging on you but either your grammar or information is off here.

Did you mean:

I'm fairly certain that gifts given to immediate relatives are not considered straw purchases. As a side note, that person should be legally able to own a firearm.

I’m not trying to be a jerk, and I hope you don’t take offense, but this points out why grammar and punctuation are important, especially when we opine on a legal subject.

 

[DMF]

Look folks it's about intent, NOT whether the person is prohibited under federal law, familial relationships, or sequence of events.

If a person buys a gun with the intent to obtain the gun for someone other than themselves (even if the person is not prohibited under federal law), and it's not actually a gift, then it is in fact a straw purchase. It matters not if they are father and son, and matters not if the son gives the money to dad before or after the purchase at the FFL. If dad buys the gun with the intent to get it for the son, but it's not a gift, then it is a straw purchase.

Likelihood of getting caught? Probably low, but who knows for sure. Likelihood of being prosecuted if caught? Depends on the AUSA in your district. Consequences if you are caught, prosecuted, and convicted? Felony conviction, federal probation or even jail time, and both you and dear old dad become prohibited persons under 18USC922(g)(1), and neither of you will be able to legally possess any firearms again.

That being said, I am not a lawyer, and if you want the real deal consult with an attorney who is familiar with federal and applicable state and local firearm laws.

 

[springmom]

Parents can buy their children guns and give them to them, yes. This is not a straw purchase. For heaven's sake, do you think that FFL's really think that those big hairy men that come in and buy little pink Crickets are going to shoot them themselves?

No worries. And enjoy the one-way beer thing. That'll end too soon.

Springmom

 

[larry_minn]

Dang this is messed up. I remember 20 some yrs ago I bought a entire LOAD of straw with no paperwork/concerns. IIRC it was oat straw about 50 bales. $20 for whole works.

 

[novaDAK]

Today's people wouldn't know if it was a straw purchase or a hay purchase...so they'd just make them both illegal

stupid no good rotten people today

 

[Im283]

Certainly your Dad can buy you a gun.

But what do I or anyone else here know. The only real valid advice you have received is to go and ask at a gun shop or seek out an attorney who knows your states gun laws.

I would like the name of your state as to where can you drink beer legally and not be of age. I really did not think it mattered who is buying and drinking with you.

 

[Roccobro]

Dang this is messed up. I remember 20 some yrs ago I bought a entire LOAD of straw with no paperwork/concerns. IIRC it was oat straw about 50 bales. $20 for whole works.

Ahh, the good old days. A single bale of alfalfa hay in my area is almost $16!

Justin

 

[yesit'sloaded]

MISSISSIPPI CODE OF 1972
As Amended

SEC. 67-3-54. Exemption for person over age 18 but less than 21; parental consent; military personnel; employee of establishment licensed to sell light wine or beer.

(1) A person who is at least eighteen (18) years of age but under the age of twenty-one (21) years may possess and consume light wine or beer with the consent of his parent or legal guardian in the presence of his parent or legal guardian, and it shall not be unlawful for the parent, legal guardian or spouse of such person to furnish light wine or beer to such person who is at least eighteen (18) years of age.

(2) A person who is at least eighteen (18) years of age and who is serving in the armed services of the United States may lawfully possess and consume light wine or beer on military property where the consumption of light wine or beer is allowed.

 

[FieroCDSP]

Definitely go to a gun store, not Wally-world or K-mart (yes, they do still exist). I turned down a sale late one evening because the son handed his dad the money. Fortunately it was before I did the paperwork. It didn't feel perfectly clean, so I declined the sale. Did it also to three 18-19 yr olds that seemed a bit punkish and apparently didn't know you had to fill out paperwork on them and one guy handed the other the money. I'm personally glad I declined that one. That felt entirely bad from the start.

Lesson to Learn: Hand them the money BEFORE you enter the store. Morons. :banghead:

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Thats right guys I had beer on grad night LEGALLY.