slohand
Member
Is anyone on this forum a member of Front Sight or attended a Front Sight Training course near Las Vegas, Nevada?
I'd appreciate your comments and opinions.
I'd appreciate your comments and opinions.
Front Sight Training
- Thread starter slohand
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Sniper X
Member
Well.....I have been to Gunsite a bunch of times, even did some of their training video production when Rich Jee owned it. I have received Frontsights free video because a guy told me it was "hollywood" quality....it wasn't. From what I see on the video and hear Frontsight is very "celeb rich" orented and a "resort" so if that is your cup of tea I say go for a class. If you want hardcorps tattical training, then I think Gunsite or maybe Thunder ranch is in order. But even now since Buzz Mills bought Gunsite I hear it is "going Hollywood"! Shoot, I loved Gunsite when Rich Jee owned it, it was hardcorps tactical training then....good stuff!
CAPTAIN MIKE
Member
Been There...Done That
I have been fortunate to have received training by several good sources. Front Sight offers high quality training, delivered by squared-away safety conscious instructors who know what the heck they are doing. While the cost of training at Front Sight is not cheap, it is definitely worth it. I have enjoyed my classes there and came away thinking it was among the best I have received over three decades, including training in the military.
There are other good sources of training as well, but cost aside, Front Sight's ability to deliver precise, outstanding training is second-to-none. Another less expensive high quality alternative in the same area is www.pfctraining.com
I have been fortunate to have received training by several good sources. Front Sight offers high quality training, delivered by squared-away safety conscious instructors who know what the heck they are doing. While the cost of training at Front Sight is not cheap, it is definitely worth it. I have enjoyed my classes there and came away thinking it was among the best I have received over three decades, including training in the military.
There are other good sources of training as well, but cost aside, Front Sight's ability to deliver precise, outstanding training is second-to-none. Another less expensive high quality alternative in the same area is www.pfctraining.com
ramon
Member
Front Sight
I've been there. Two day pistol class. Good training and not any religious or political stuff. They will try to sell you a membership but no pressure and no big deal. It is hardly a resort-unless they got rid of the outhouses and got some bathrooms since I've been there. The girls really don't like that aspect. I recall everyone there to be extremely nice and helpful. You will be a better defensive shooter. I am and I had prior military and le training. If you go and stay in Henderson, the hotel with the huge Bass Pro Shop is a hoot. Great way to spend each evening(yeah, I'm old!) and they will prepare a lunch for you to take along each day.
I've been there. Two day pistol class. Good training and not any religious or political stuff. They will try to sell you a membership but no pressure and no big deal. It is hardly a resort-unless they got rid of the outhouses and got some bathrooms since I've been there. The girls really don't like that aspect. I recall everyone there to be extremely nice and helpful. You will be a better defensive shooter. I am and I had prior military and le training. If you go and stay in Henderson, the hotel with the huge Bass Pro Shop is a hoot. Great way to spend each evening(yeah, I'm old!) and they will prepare a lunch for you to take along each day.
redsaber75
Member
Even though this might draw some heat, I would recommend Suarez International due to the regional location and the tuition being reasonable.
I have had good experiences with his materials.
I also like it that he doesn't do that "restricted material" BS.
That is shades of Scientology...
I have had good experiences with his materials.
I also like it that he doesn't do that "restricted material" BS.
That is shades of Scientology...
Snarlingiron
Member
Elucidate, please.
redsaber75
Member
What I meant by that is the "restricted courses" strike me as a marketing ploy.
The Scientology comparison was a little harsh but the same idea in action.
"Buy a bunch of our regular courses and we might grant you the privilege of our restricted courses."
The Scientology comparison was a little harsh but the same idea in action.
"Buy a bunch of our regular courses and we might grant you the privilege of our restricted courses."
bill2
Member
I have been at Front sight
and have attended their 4 day pistol course (back when they were in CA) and taken the 1 day sub MG and 4 day tactical shotgun course (this one was May of last year and I did a write up on it here in Strategies and Tactics). There was no mention of Scientology, no hard sales stuff, and it certainly was not a lush resort type place. maybe after they get rid of the porta potties... The training was professional, friendly, and extensive; the instructors answered all my questions. You can attend the sales stuff, done during lunch hour, or not attend it.
Give it a shot, no pun intended. you might just like it.
and have attended their 4 day pistol course (back when they were in CA) and taken the 1 day sub MG and 4 day tactical shotgun course (this one was May of last year and I did a write up on it here in Strategies and Tactics). There was no mention of Scientology, no hard sales stuff, and it certainly was not a lush resort type place. maybe after they get rid of the porta potties... The training was professional, friendly, and extensive; the instructors answered all my questions. You can attend the sales stuff, done during lunch hour, or not attend it.
Give it a shot, no pun intended. you might just like it.
Snarlingiron
Member
I think I see what you mean. However, I have taken all of my training at Tac Pro Shooting Center, and they offer basic, intermediate and advanced courses for pistol, shotgun, carbine, etc. They do insist that they be taken in order. I know that the pistol courses taught are quite different from most other training. A friend of mine recently took the advanced pistol course, and there were a couple of guys that had trained at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, etc. Bill Davison insisted that they had to take 2 days of private instruction before taking the advanced pistol course, which they did. According to my friend, even with that they were unable to keep up with the course (Part of this was the fact that they were using single stack 45's, and in Bill's courses you will spend too much time reloading to keep up).
This is an article that appeared in the August 2005 issue of SWAT magazine that gives a pretty good description of the class.
Just a word on so called restricted courses. Despite what many people are led to believe there aren't any supersecret DELTASEALRECONRANGERNINJASWAT shooting techniques.
The poeple who do those things for real are just very, very good at the basics. They get that good by practicing the basics so much that even the government can barely afford that much shooting.
Think about that the next time someone tries to sell you advanced, previously restricted training.
Jeff
The poeple who do those things for real are just very, very good at the basics. They get that good by practicing the basics so much that even the government can barely afford that much shooting.
Think about that the next time someone tries to sell you advanced, previously restricted training.
Jeff
bill2
Member
What are these restricted courses?
I have not heard of any courses restricted from most of the students? As long as you pay for a course, or are in the appropriate level of First Family and can take them for free, they are open to anyone.
I have not heard of any courses restricted from most of the students? As long as you pay for a course, or are in the appropriate level of First Family and can take them for free, they are open to anyone.
Sweatnbullets
Member
That is incorrect Bill. You have to have the Distinguished Graduate (DG) certificate in the perspective courses to to get into the advanced shotgun, rifle, and pistol course. I believe the pistol course is called Integrated handgun (or something like that.)
The DG in the practical rifle course is a very difficult feat. A very small percentage of students have hit that level. I have been within the DG by a couple of points down, with iron sights, on several occasions. But even after eight practical rifle course I can not get into the precision rifle course. All because I was 1/16 of an an inch outside of the cranial ocular cavity.
Seriously what does 1/16 of an inch matter when you are shot in the head with a rifle round.
The DG in the practical rifle course is a very difficult feat. A very small percentage of students have hit that level. I have been within the DG by a couple of points down, with iron sights, on several occasions. But even after eight practical rifle course I can not get into the precision rifle course. All because I was 1/16 of an an inch outside of the cranial ocular cavity.
Seriously what does 1/16 of an inch matter when you are shot in the head with a rifle round.
Fly320s
Member
Sweatnbullets,
You said that you have been to 8 rifle courses, but haven't been able to get the course you want because of 1/16 of an inch. Why should that matter?
Money.
In some form or another you have paid for those 8 courses. And you will keep paying until you get the course you want. That is why FS grades so hard on that 1/16". It's a business first.
You said that you have been to 8 rifle courses, but haven't been able to get the course you want because of 1/16 of an inch. Why should that matter?
Money.
In some form or another you have paid for those 8 courses. And you will keep paying until you get the course you want. That is why FS grades so hard on that 1/16". It's a business first.
Sweatnbullets
Member
I've been a member since 1999. They already have my money. This is actually a way to keep the attendance down in the advanced course so that they can claim that there is no interest and only run one in a blue moon. Having these courses full of prepaid members does not make dollars or sense. By claiming "no interest" they can dump non profitable course....just like they did with the four night courses.
I joined Front Sight about a year ago and have since attended one course, their Four-Day Pistol course. Excellent and very squared away instruction which I would recommend to anyone.
The only caveat I would offer is that once you've joined the marketing NEVER lets up. I get a "special" pre-recorded message from Mr. Piazza about once a week now, and ENDLESS badly written and marketed fliers, mailers, etc, encouraging me to "trade up" my membership. They call it "exchange in abundance" and it gets really annoying.
The only caveat I would offer is that once you've joined the marketing NEVER lets up. I get a "special" pre-recorded message from Mr. Piazza about once a week now, and ENDLESS badly written and marketed fliers, mailers, etc, encouraging me to "trade up" my membership. They call it "exchange in abundance" and it gets really annoying.
gdvan01
Member
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Mtnvalley
Member
Hmmm- I've only been a Challenge member for little over a year, so I haven't run into this yet (no upper level courses in my membership), but...
have you examined the possibility that they insist upon DG as a prerequisite so as to keep the class up to speed? I mean, I just missed DG in 4D handgun by 1 point, but was shooting above my norm (and then punted a type 3 in malf/load tests). I could still see myself being "that guy" (every class has at least one) in Combat Master Prep or the like, at this point in my shooting development.
You could well be right about FS' motivation, but my take is that experienced shooters expect higher drag from classmates in the lower level classes (which usually include at least 1-2 folks who've never held a gun before, as well as a few who've 'been shooting all my life' but don't know what they don't know). These practiced shooters might not have as much tolerance for such folks in advanced classes, perhaps deservedly so.
Setting DG as the barrier to entry (and insisting that you do it "on command", not just "I did it once") may well help ensure that the folks who've advanced that far get the most possible out of the course, and might save those who aren't quite up to that speed yet from experiencing some serious frustration. To use a weak metaphor, not every 16-year-old is ready for a full college curriculum even though a few may test-qualify in one subject or another.
Been twice
Attended the basic 4 day handgun with my wife 2 years ago. Went back last year to the 5 day handgun, and got my Florida and Utah CCW the 5th day. Top notch instructors. Zero Scientology nonsense. Buy one of the many certificates that are out there. Do not pay retail. I would stay away from memberships for now. There is a class action lawsuit being worked out, by those who bought memberships, but did not receive all they expected. Mainly beefs about homesites. I would definitely go back, and would recommend it.
Attended the basic 4 day handgun with my wife 2 years ago. Went back last year to the 5 day handgun, and got my Florida and Utah CCW the 5th day. Top notch instructors. Zero Scientology nonsense. Buy one of the many certificates that are out there. Do not pay retail. I would stay away from memberships for now. There is a class action lawsuit being worked out, by those who bought memberships, but did not receive all they expected. Mainly beefs about homesites. I would definitely go back, and would recommend it.
RichardInFlorida
Member
Marketing...
I ran into one guy who said he had been to the pistol class. He enjoyed it, but admits he has not been to any other firearms schools, so he doesn't know how Front Sight compares.
I took a look at the website and saw all of the same high pressure marketing that is used in real estate (and I guess every other sales job out there.) The same kind of copy (text) with "calls to action" for a free series of "special reports" and "Hollywood-quality" DVDs. I was immediately turned off by all of this, but I know that this method of marketing is effective.
They do state that Front Sight "...trains more students than all of the other shooting schools in this country combined." While this may be true, it does seem to be an exaggeration.
When I contacted the school by e-mail for more information, the reply I received was terse and not very helpful. The unsigned reply directed me to sign up for the "free reports and DVDs." They also did not cite any sources for their statement that they train more than all the others combined, saying instead, "Every month thousands of students take courses with us. Add it up."
Other questions I asked weren't really answered well. So, to me it sounds a lot like a straight business venture using firearms as a vehicle. There isn't anything wrong with that per se, but it may not be what I am looking for.
I ran into one guy who said he had been to the pistol class. He enjoyed it, but admits he has not been to any other firearms schools, so he doesn't know how Front Sight compares.
I took a look at the website and saw all of the same high pressure marketing that is used in real estate (and I guess every other sales job out there.) The same kind of copy (text) with "calls to action" for a free series of "special reports" and "Hollywood-quality" DVDs. I was immediately turned off by all of this, but I know that this method of marketing is effective.
They do state that Front Sight "...trains more students than all of the other shooting schools in this country combined." While this may be true, it does seem to be an exaggeration.
When I contacted the school by e-mail for more information, the reply I received was terse and not very helpful. The unsigned reply directed me to sign up for the "free reports and DVDs." They also did not cite any sources for their statement that they train more than all the others combined, saying instead, "Every month thousands of students take courses with us. Add it up."
Other questions I asked weren't really answered well. So, to me it sounds a lot like a straight business venture using firearms as a vehicle. There isn't anything wrong with that per se, but it may not be what I am looking for.
Switchman
Member
I've taken the 4 day handgun class and I am preparing to go back and attend the shotgun class this month. I can say without reservation the staff and training are first rate. Rangemasters and instructors are the best. Period.
My only gripes: They do market aggressively, sometimes a little over the top.
I'd like to see smaller classes, too. My handgun class was 30, but to be fair, the costs would be higher for more individual instruction.
One of the reasons I support Front Sight is the stated purpose of changing the way people look at shooting. An important part of protecting our second amendment rights is projecting a positive image to the general public. Like it or not, perceptions count and we live in the media age. In spite of some problems, like the lawsuit which I believe has been settled, Front Sight is a first class, professional operation and projects that image to the general public. Get a certificate from a current member or look at the introductory deals on the website, try a class and see for yourself.
My only gripes: They do market aggressively, sometimes a little over the top.
I'd like to see smaller classes, too. My handgun class was 30, but to be fair, the costs would be higher for more individual instruction.
One of the reasons I support Front Sight is the stated purpose of changing the way people look at shooting. An important part of protecting our second amendment rights is projecting a positive image to the general public. Like it or not, perceptions count and we live in the media age. In spite of some problems, like the lawsuit which I believe has been settled, Front Sight is a first class, professional operation and projects that image to the general public. Get a certificate from a current member or look at the introductory deals on the website, try a class and see for yourself.
RichardInFlorida
Member
Switchman,
On EBay, I have seen Front Site gift certificates for sale that cover a single four-day course. The buy-it-now prices are a LOT cheaper than the cost of the classes. The certificates are supposed to be fully transferable.
When I inquired with Front Sight about these, they refused to say if they would honor these or not. So, I don't know where the certificates are coming from, if they are legit, and if Front Sight would honor them.
Do you have any ideas about them?
On EBay, I have seen Front Site gift certificates for sale that cover a single four-day course. The buy-it-now prices are a LOT cheaper than the cost of the classes. The certificates are supposed to be fully transferable.
When I inquired with Front Sight about these, they refused to say if they would honor these or not. So, I don't know where the certificates are coming from, if they are legit, and if Front Sight would honor them.
Do you have any ideas about them?
Switchman
Member
Richard,
Be VERY careful buying certificates on E-Bay or anywhere else where you don't personally know the seller. Because of the demand there are a lot of fakes out there, and Front Sight can't honor a forgery. Try to get one from a member, if possible. Also, keep checking the website for special offers. There are a lot of them and there's new ones all the time. For instance, when I joined with a friend, we got the whole package for half price. Good luck.
Be VERY careful buying certificates on E-Bay or anywhere else where you don't personally know the seller. Because of the demand there are a lot of fakes out there, and Front Sight can't honor a forgery. Try to get one from a member, if possible. Also, keep checking the website for special offers. There are a lot of them and there's new ones all the time. For instance, when I joined with a friend, we got the whole package for half price. Good luck.
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