FRTB Issue - Glock 27

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Vanderbilt

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My sister carries a Glock 27 as her backup (she's a state trooper in a different area of the country), and has been experiencing issues whereby the slide LOCKS OPEN prematurely with a round in the chamber. (sorry for the misleading title - I misunderstood FRTB) Her instructor fired the gun several times without issue, and came to the conclusion that she must be limp-wristing it. I don't doubt that he's a knowledgeable guy, but where my sister's safety is concerned I'd like to get as many opinions as possible...from experienced/knowledgeable shooters, of course.

My Questions: Has anyone had similar issues with the G27? Does the instructor's prognosis sound realistic? Is there anything she might be able to do to fix the issue? Might forearm curls strengthen her wrists enough to counteract limp wristing?

I've never even fired a glock/polymer pistol before, so the only advice I could give is to get as much range practice as possible in order to get used to the recoil...probably not bad advice in any case, but not really specific to her issue.

Disclaimer: I'm sorry if this has been addressed before - I utilized the search function but found nothing really relevant.
 
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The only reason that I can think of for a G27 to lock open is that the clip may not be fully seated. If the magazine release is failing (for whatever reason) during recoil, that would do it.

FRTB usually means that the slide returns forward, but not quite far enough. This locks up the firing mechanism until the slide is bumped the rest of the way forward.
 
Limp wristing seems to be a "catch all", it can happen, but if she's been shooting for a length of time she's surely learned to lock her wrists. I suspect that it could be that her thumb is hitting the slide stop lever during recoil, especially if she has an extended slide stop, but it happens with the factory stop as well...tell her to make sure she locks her thumbs down and see what happens...;)
 
The G27 (compact .40 S&W) barks like a mean dog. Most people hate shooting that type of gun any more than they absolutely have to. Let me guess, she bought it for a backup gun, 'cause the duty gun is too big to "carry around." Yes?

I'll hazard another guess here. She had it to the range once or twice, and then had to go "qualify" with it so she could be authorized to carry it off duty. During the "qualification," there were malfunctions. Am I right so far?

I shot one of those little monsters just once, and instantly knew I wouldn't want one. Just like a snub .357. Simply nasty.

Tell your sister to get out to the range with that gun 100 rounds every week for the next 10 weeks, and then report back to us.

One of two things will have happened. She will have got rid of the gun, or she will have got rid of the "problem" you described. If the latter is the case, she's more of a trooper than me.
 
Let me guess, she bought it for a backup gun, 'cause the duty gun is too big to "carry around." Yes?

Unfortunately, she didn't have a choice in the matter - the G27 is the standard issue backup to the duty gun (which I believe is the G35) for her department.

I'll mention the possibility that she's bumping the slide stop during recoil. Thanks for the advice!
 
The G27 (compact .40 S&W) barks like a mean dog.

Little correction: The Glock 27 is a Sub Compact model of .40 Glock. The Glock 23 is the Compact .40; the Glock 22 is Standard size .40; the Glock 35 is Competition (5.32" barrel) .40.

Strange. Though I've admittedly never fired a Glock 27, I've seen YouTube videos of people firing them like nothing. Hardly ANY recoil at all! Get an aftermarket pinky extension and you'll probably be able to handle it better, I think. The G27's grip is short (G27's height is but 4.1"), and for most they can only get two fingers on the grip, which'll make it harder to control when firing.

And it's the first I've heard of a police department having Competition models for primaries! :)
 
Try a different magazine but I'd bet her thumb is riding high enough to engage the slide stop during recoil. Try changing the grip or firing with the other hand and see if it still happens. If it has an extended slide stop lever, ditch it for the factory one.
 
The G27 understandably has some increased felt recoil compared to her issued service weapon (G35?).

It also has a smaller grip.

These two conditions could be a factor when it comes to her grip stability and technique, both potentially being adversely affected by increased felt recoil.

Typically, when a Glock slide locks open EARLY (or prematurely), the experienced instructor familiar with Glocks, and/or a Glock armorer, will look for the following probable causes:

Improper hand position (Generally meaning one or the other of the shooter's thumbs is to close to the slide stop lever and is hitting it upward under recoil. It could be either the dominant thumb being too high and close to the lever, or the support thumb being 'crossed over' the dominant thumb and being too close to the lever ... both of which requires a shooter grip change.)

Reverse tension on slide stop lever spring (Generally the result of improper installation of the slide stop lever, which places the spring on top of the locking block - instead of below it - reducing necessary tension of the spring upon the lever.)

Damaged slide stop lever (Self explanatory, requiring replacement.)

If the last two conditions were eliminated by the instructor, then it seems possible her grip technique may require correction when shooting the harder recoiling smaller Glock .40 pistol.

This is something which would more properly be addressed by her agency's firearms training unit than someone online. Having her right there on the firing line gives them the ability to closely observe and consider both her shooting technique and the actual weapon. Offering extra range time and even remedial training is something for them to consider, within the policies and practices of their agency. She may have to ask for it, or they may require it, depending on their evaluation of what's actually occurring with her.

Remember that felt recoil is often one of the most subjective issues discussed among firearm users & owners. People very often experience, perceive and describe felt recoil differently.

I've often been asked for my opinion when it comes to some of our folks choosing between a G26 (9mm) and G27 (.40 S&W) as an off-duty weapon. When asked this question, instead of offering my opinion I generally recommend the person try both guns out on our firing line.

More often than not the person will choose the G26 after spending some time on the firing line, and the reason offered is some variation of controllability, reduced felt recoil and improved recoil management. Granted, some of the folks are not 'gun enthusiasts', and may be a bit sensitive to felt recoil, but a number of them have been men of some firearms skill and experience, who own other firearms, but who still find the lesser recoiling G26 to be more to their liking.

Now, if your sister is issued the G27 by her agency, and she's required to demonstrate competence and acceptable skills when it comes to handling, manipulating and shooting it, she should ask the firearms training people at her agency for assistance.

FWIW, if your sister is issued a G35 by her agency, this wouldn't be the first time I've heard of it being done. One time during a tactics/shooting class conducted for plainclothes and special street enforcement units I met a couple of guys who had been issued G35's by their agency. Naturally, though, the G22 would be a more commonly encountered 'full-size' model in LE circles. Not too hard to imagine that someone might perceive a bit of difference when it comes to felt recoil when going from the largest of the Glock pistols chambered in .40 S&W (and who knows what connector was ordered by the agency, too?) to the smallest, you know.

Just my thoughts.
 
Hadn't seen that happen, fastbolt. My experience with the G27 has the thumb riding down onto the mag release rather than up onto the slide stop. On pulling out a G27 and checking, though, I can see where that could happen with small hands and a two-handed grip.

Something to bear in mind... .
 
Watch enough folks go through enough qualification courses-of-fire and it's downright mind-boggling what you can occasionally see occur. :scrutiny:

Those probable causes I mentioned are actually taken out of the Glock armorer's manual, too.

FWIW, I've seen the crossed-thumbs grip style some folks use cause not only premature slide stop lever activation, but one time I watched a fellow shooting a PPK/s consistently, albeit unintentionally, depress the magazine catch button on his Walther during a course of fire, resulting in the magazine dropping several times. At the moment of recoil his support thumb shifted and precisely pressed the magazine catch, then shifted back to where it had started ... and where he believed it remained during shooting, it seemed.

Once I explained to him what I'd seen him doing, and shifted his support-hand thumb to a different position, the magazine-drop 'problem' disappeared. Of course, once he realized what had been happening he became a bit energetic in his vocal reaction. He explained that he'd been tolerating that particular 'problem' for many years, but hadn't been able to get the gun 'fixed' to correct it. He was somewhat nonplussed when he found out that it was his grip that needed a bit of fixing.

I've seen the same sort of problem the thread starter described occur when some folks have been shooting some of the polymer-framed .40 S&W pistols, too.
 
Have her shoot it left handed. If it doesn't happen, then you have confirmation that it's her thumb pushing up the slide stop.

You might also suggest a Hogue handall. They are pretty helpful on the little Glocks to control recoil. Some folks also like the Pierce or Scherer grip extenders, which give you a pinky hold. I don't think they help me shoot my 26 any better, but it might help her.
 
Have her shoot it left handed. If it doesn't happen, then you have confirmation that it's her thumb pushing up the slide stop.

You'd hope the instructor would've done that as part of identifying such a potential shooter-related issue ... (presuming the trooper is right-handed, since I didn't see it mentioned in the original post) ... but it depends on the experience of the firearms instructor.
 
There is another mechanical explanation.

If the feed lips on the mag are too far apart it can allow the follower to rise enough to engage the slide stop.

I'd try another mag and the finger extension, just to cover all the mechanical bases.
 
My Questions: Has anyone had similar issues with the G27? No. Does the instructor's prognosis sound realistic? Yes, to some degree. Is there anything she might be able to do to fix the issue? straighten her strong arm, put a lot of "meat" on the frame and go back to her training. Might forearm curls strengthen her wrists enough to counteract limp wristing? No, because you don't want to over do it.

Question for your sister Vander, has she shot a handgun proficiently before joing the force?
 
Question for your sister Vander, has she shot a handgun proficiently before joing the force?

She's by no means a firearms enthusiast, but I believe she's shot full-size autos before with good results.

Thanks for all the responses - I've passed them on to my LEO sister so that she'll have a few good options to troubleshoot next time she's at the range (which would be ASAP if I had my way). Thanks for the help!
 
has been experiencing issues whereby the slide LOCKS OPEN prematurely with a round in the chamber.

Are you sure there is one in the chamber when it locks back?:confused: How can it chamber a round and THEN lock back?
 
Might be the cartridge inside the magazine riding slightly foward under recoil and bumping the slide-release from the inside - especially if it's heavier-than-115gr bullets.
 
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