Frustrated with my shooting of Gen 4 G17

[JohnhenrySTL]

I am asking for a solution. I'm not here to praise or bash Glocks. I am so frustrated with mine. I have backed off shooting.

I have always liked glocks, always respected them, and always assumed I would have one. About 5 months ago I traded a scope to a dealer/relative for a brand new g17 with trijicon sights. He installed them before I ever shot it with factory sights.

I'm systematicly high and left. I put holes in holes, about 4 inches high and left at 7 yards, and 8 inches at 15. Even if I aim off to compensate for my problem, my grouping only opens up.

I use to shoot glocks great, almost as good as I do my sig and other guns. I would love to pick up glocks and show off. I assumed if I owned one, I could improve.

I have a deal worked out to trade it for a brand new cz75 steal framed. The problem is this was months ago, and the dealer says he can't find one. My real frustration is I don't like giving up on the glock.

I have been told by 3rd party installers, that not only are my orange trijicon sights installed perfectly, but the factory sights will never stay on after being removed.

I have tried the different factory grip sizes. I've tried finger tip positioning. I've had other people shoot it, and claim it was okay, as good as expected from a glock. They were impressed with their grouping and I was not. After an hour or so at the range, I can take any of my regular handguns, including my 442 and split open a golf ball sized target at 7 yards. I have been told by glock hating gun smiths that gen 4's have crappy triggers. I shot a gen 3 recently and did not have the problem. I don't like trigger jobs. The only random possibility I was considering is that I am shooting orange bullsyes with an orange sight. I have tried dry firing too, and don't notice a problem. In the middle of a range trip, while shooting the glock, I can pick up my sig p229 and exceed my expectations. Recently, I unloaded the box magizine, as quickly as I could. The group was fairly tight considering how quickly I shot. I was impressed. It was just high and left.

I want to like my gun. I also think nothing feels cooler than a broken in ten year old glock. Do you fellow travelers have any suggestions? I am very frustrated. Perhaps if it is even legal and within regulations, I would be into mailing it to a familiar person on here, so they can test it out. I don't accept the local talk, "it's just a glock."

 

[ants]

I have been told by 3rd party installers, that not only are my orange trijicon sights installed perfectly, but the factory sights will never stay on after being removed.

I don't accept that opinion. Any installer can screw up an installation. And I've reinstalled factory sights after aftermarket sights, and they have been on for tens of thousands of rounds.


However...

There is also the Glock issue of an incorrectly installed locking block, which will result in exactly your POA vs POI problem. Any authorized Glock armorer (perhaps not just a smith if he's not up to speed on Glock) can look into it for you, probably as a warranty claim.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Some folks just don't seem to click with certain guns, no harm, no foul. You might can practice and trouble-shoot your way out of it, but that might just end up being an ammo-wasting excersize in frustration.
And it's not like it's a your duty pistol and it's all you're allowed to use. Now THAT would be a real issue you'd need to deal with.
You shoot other guns well, and it is just a Glock afterall, they're a dime a dozen, nothing special to get too attached to or hung up over (and I say that as a Glock fan since my first one in '86).
Get rid of it, and try a XD9 or a M&P9, I bet it's the grip angle, and one of these would fix you up.
Also,if you're interested in a CZ75 ( STEEL framed ), check your local Armslist or other gun-oriented classified sites. I see them regularly. In fact, I got one that way myself a year ago, but have since traded it.

 

[tarosean]

I don't accept the local talk, "it's just a glock."

Why not?? Its a mass produced firearm that is subject to QC issues same as any other production gun. The mighty glock is not infallible.

A) Sell it, as its not shooting to your standard.
B) Dump the rear sight and go with an adjustable one. to fine tune your POA.

I have been told by glock hating gun smiths that gen 4's have crappy triggers.

Nothing about being a hater. Its simply fact, the gen 4's trigger can never be as good as the previous gens due to the changes in angle required for the backstraps. I have multiple gen 3's and 2 gen 4's. All with custom triggers and both gen 4's suck comparatively.

 

[JTQ]

On another forum, the debate between Gen3 and Gen4 Glocks has the accuracy advantage solidly in the Gen4 favor.

 

[BSA1]

Why not?? Its a mass produced firearm that is subject to QC issues same as any other production gun. The mighty glock is not infallible.

I learned a long time ago not to criticize Glocks on THR. I got the paint blistered off of my rear end asking my first question (4,262 ago to be exact) about Glocks.

With that said Glocks are not for me. I just don't like how they handle and the way they feel when I shoot them.

However I really enjoy shooting the Ruger SR9c. It fits my hand well and I can shoot it accurately even weak handed. If you knew how weak my left hand is you would be impressed.

Ok to appease the Glock fanboys keep it for the last gun left in America situation. Try shooting other semi-autos. You like the CZ-75 so I would not give up on trying to find one. There are over 270 of them listed on Gunbroker.

 

[JohnBiltz]

My first question would be is do other people have the same problem?

 

[tarosean]

the debate between Gen3 and Gen4 Glocks has the accuracy advantage solidly in the Gen4 favor.

I was specifically talking about the triggers.

 

[JTQ]

I know, but the OP was complaining about the accuracy of his Gen 4 G17. The Gen4 guns are known for their accuracy. He could have got a bad one, or maybe he just doesn't mesh with the G17, but the reputation of the Gen4 Glocks is they are more accurate than their predecessors.

 

[Zendude]

If the grouping is that tight, I would say the sights are the culprit.

 

[AK103K]

Just out of curiosity, since you said you dont have an issue with the Gen 3's, is the Gen 4's grip set up to mimic them?

It almost sounds like it might be a grip issue, and by that I mean, a difference in how the gun is in your hand, relative to the trigger.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

Deleted

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

I have the gen 4 grips on it. I seriously am doubting it's the trigger or the gun. I think it's me or more than likely the sights. I have messed with the factory grip options. I'm looking into different sight options, or reinstalling the factory sights.

 

[AK103K]

I understand it a Gen 4, what I was getting at was, does the insert youre using, replicate the Gen 3 grips? I was wondering if it didnt, maybe it was putting your trigger finger in a different spot on the trigger, causing a different "press".

How well did the last sights come off?

I ask that because the last 4 sets I took off, using a pusher, were not going back on, specifically, the rear sights. The plastic separated from the metal insert, and the rear sight was basically destroyed.

For what its worth, I have all Gen 3's, and all of them, have the right side of the rear sights, flush with the right side of the dovetail. No matter what I do, how I hold the gun, or place my finger on the trigger, they shoot to the left, if the sights are centered in the dovetail.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

I recieved the gun with the new sights installed. I am not familiar with gen 3 grips. Were you able to adjust your sights somehow or another? I have trijicon sights. ILl check out a friend's gen 3. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[zb338]

I had a Glock 17 and never shot it that well. I won a Glock 34 in a raffle
and I shoot it a lot better. I was at the gun club one night and I had a
chance to shoot a Glock 34 and a CZ75 The CZ was a lot easier to shoot
and more accurate than the Glock (in my hands). Dump the Glock and
move on.
Zeke

 

[AK103K]

If they didnt come with factory night sights, I put Meprolights on them. The rear sight is adjustable for windage, you just need to move it right or left to adjust zero.

The Gen 3 grips are what they are. The Gen 4's have inserts to allow you to get a more custom fitting grip. I thought you said you shot the Gen 3's and didnt have any problems, and was just thinking it might be the Gen 4 had an insert in it, that gave a different grip than the Gen 3.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

I did shoot a gen 3. And had less problems, if not any. What could I try with the grips. Thanks btw, I like the idea of a new rear sight, and keeping the front sight.

 

[Steel Talon]

FWIW... Without observing etc. I would suggest you tighten your grip significantly. A real frog strangler... What you describe sounds like a grip issue. Don't know for sure.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Having both a 75b and a G17 I say dump the glock the CZ is superoir in every way.

Nothing against glock I still have my 17 I just find it makes a good truck/draw gun.

 

[oneounceload]

Perhaps this might shed some light - it did for me as a LH shooter, especially for the snub revolver I was shooting:

http://users.rcn.com/gwhite/DIAGNOSE.PDF

 

[Steve C]

Try to analyze you problem in a methodical method.
Step 1. Determine if it is gun or shooter. Shoot your pistol off a bench where you minimize movement imparted by the shooter at a standard bullseye target at 50 ft to 25 yards depending on target.
A. If it still shoots high and left then the sights are the problem and need to be adjusted. Taller front sight to lower impact and rear sight moved right.
B. If it shoots off only in one direction then adjust the sight for that and work to correct the shooters issue.
C. If it shoots where aimed then the issue is with the shooter. Use the error correction guide found at http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm.

 

[fulingyu]

Nothing about being a hater. Its simply fact, the gen 4's trigger can never be as good as the previous gens due to the changes in angle required for the backstraps. I have multiple gen 3's and 2 gen 4's. All with custom triggers and both gen 4's suck comparatively.[/QUOTE]

This! Gen4 glock triggers are nowhere near the gen3 trigger because of the altered angle. G21 SF, same issue. The change in angle makes for a heavier trigger pull.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

I'll keep you helpfull folks informed, but a helpful friend has a 100 dollar sight tool. We are supposed to meet at the range soon. He also has trained 1000's of people in handgunning.

 

[FireInCairo]

Sounds like the grip geometry for the G17 does not suit your hand. I would not feel terrible about moving on from the gun. There are plenty of pistols out there. Try the new Ruger American Pistol.