Guns and more
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Hmmm..everything I heard said he used two handguns.
Ft Hood murderer uses the FN 5.7 x 28 cartridge
- Thread starter nathan
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mljdeckard
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If you want one, buy it now. May become a collector's item soon.
flinch
Member
What was the ak panic of 07?
classic arms went about spreading rumors that the AK producers could no longer import any more AKs and what they had was the last of what came into the country. Then AK prices shot through the roof. This was before the obama panic. Of course the whole thing turned out to be lies just to sell more guns, but once the ball got rolling it turned into a whole "purple monkey dishwasher" affair.
cottonmouth
Member
We need to know what this bastard was shot with and be sure that something bigger is issued, damn shame he didn't bleed out!
J.B.
J.B.
nwilliams
Member
I doubt very much that the FiveSeven and it's round is not going anywhere due to this tragedy.
I just hope there isn't another panic buying spree on the horizon
I'm glad he's alive. He obviously wanted to die and didn't get his wish, I want to see him stand trial and answer for his crimes.
I just hope there isn't another panic buying spree on the horizon
I'm glad he's alive. He obviously wanted to die and didn't get his wish, I want to see him stand trial and answer for his crimes.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
He might well have selected that gun and ammunition based on the media hype of its supposed extra lethality. But there is no way we can ever know for sure.
CraigJS
Member
Latest I've heard is that he DIDN'T use a wheel gun (as a second weapon) and that he DID have a laser sight on the 5 7. Perhaps that aided to his accuracy? He purchased the FN a week or so earlier and "perhaps" he had some AP rounds. Perhaps he was expecting some body armor...
I hope he swings!
I hope he swings!
"The 5.7 is known to..." Only in anti-gun propaganda. The AP bullets, available to LE and military, will penetrate body armor, but so will many other bullets in many other calibers. This is just another go-round on the "cop killer bullet" business. If you want to do the most damage to a human body, plain lead or soft point bullets are much more effective than the so-called "armor piercing" bullets.
But some of the "ban guns" media, aided by a VPC propaganda statement that is mostly a lie, have seized on the "cop killer gun".
The media don't dare tell the truth - that the jihad is alive and well in America and that it is impossible to determine if that nice Muslim who sold you ice cream today is going to set out to kill you tomorrow. The vast majority of Muslims are good, decent people who disavow the jihadists the same way Baptists despise the nutcase prohibitionists and Catholics disavow abortion clinic bombers. But it only takes a few in the right places.
One of the nuttier remarks (CNN Pentagon correspondent) was that military bases need to be closed off to prevent "unauthorized" people from entering. She seemed totally oblivious to the fact that the killer worked on the base and was fully authorized to be there. The media seems to be getting more and more adept at confusing themselves even as they seem to be deliberately trying to confuse and mislead the public.
Jim
But some of the "ban guns" media, aided by a VPC propaganda statement that is mostly a lie, have seized on the "cop killer gun".
The media don't dare tell the truth - that the jihad is alive and well in America and that it is impossible to determine if that nice Muslim who sold you ice cream today is going to set out to kill you tomorrow. The vast majority of Muslims are good, decent people who disavow the jihadists the same way Baptists despise the nutcase prohibitionists and Catholics disavow abortion clinic bombers. But it only takes a few in the right places.
One of the nuttier remarks (CNN Pentagon correspondent) was that military bases need to be closed off to prevent "unauthorized" people from entering. She seemed totally oblivious to the fact that the killer worked on the base and was fully authorized to be there. The media seems to be getting more and more adept at confusing themselves even as they seem to be deliberately trying to confuse and mislead the public.
Jim
BHP FAN
Member
Shepard Smith,when the name came across his desk,sputtered ''no way we're going with that,at least not until it's confirmed'' ! Right on live TV,so I switched over to MSNBC [eww] and they said it straight out. Fox got scooped....becauase ol' Shep is sooooo PC. LOL.
outerlimit
Member
I honestly don't like the cartridge, I think it is a poor choice over most others. Of course it will do the job, but I would prefer a 9x19mm or a .45acp anytime.
The only real benefit the gun has is with it's armor piercing ability for certain tactical situations, but of course that is only with the black tipped ammo which FN has not imported for years now.
This ammo is very hard to find and very expensive when you do. The only ammo available for the gun is the fmj rounds and the hollowpoints as far as I know.
And of course the lower recoil the cartridge has, for faster follow-up shots.
The modern day version of the 7.62x25mm Tok is the... 7.62x25mm Tok.
It also penetrates lighter body armor just fine, like the black tipped light armor piercing 5.7x28mm round. Many police forces on the other side of the world use "Tokarev rated" vests.
The only real benefit the gun has is with it's armor piercing ability for certain tactical situations, but of course that is only with the black tipped ammo which FN has not imported for years now.
This ammo is very hard to find and very expensive when you do. The only ammo available for the gun is the fmj rounds and the hollowpoints as far as I know.
And of course the lower recoil the cartridge has, for faster follow-up shots.
The modern day version of the 7.62x25mm Tok is the... 7.62x25mm Tok.
It also penetrates lighter body armor just fine, like the black tipped light armor piercing 5.7x28mm round. Many police forces on the other side of the world use "Tokarev rated" vests.
Is that when they claimed Romania was shutting down production so they could get into NATO. What made that one so funny was Romania was already a member state so it took some pretty serious ignorance (and stupidity to not do even basic research) to not know it was BS.
TimM
Member
Hmmmm??? Apparently he was familiar with his weapon of choice as well.
I understand that the SS192 round was available for this gun until a few years ago. It did not meet any of the legal requirements to be labeled as AP but was removed from production because it could barely at very close range penetrate some level IIA vests. The ATF had nothing to do with its removal. FN did it on their own so the pistol and the civilian legal carbine would not be banned from sale. It has since been replaced with the SS196 round which is a lead core bullet that does not share the velocity of the SS192 round and will not penetrate level IIa vests at all.
It is possible that some SS192 rounds are still out there but on an old THR post in the archive from 2005 it stated that back then the rounds left were selling for 1 to 2 dollars apiece. No telling how much they would cost today!
I know I should provide some links as I learned all this last night but it is late, I am tired and it would be easy for anyone to find this info using google or any good search engine.
ABC and FOX are crap!
It is possible that some SS192 rounds are still out there but on an old THR post in the archive from 2005 it stated that back then the rounds left were selling for 1 to 2 dollars apiece. No telling how much they would cost today!
I know I should provide some links as I learned all this last night but it is late, I am tired and it would be easy for anyone to find this info using google or any good search engine.
ABC and FOX are crap!
outerlimit
Member
The SS196 has been discontinued in favor of the SS197. It is basically the same thing as the SS196, but loaded about 100fps faster.
Shadow 7D
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Didn't they shoot the vest with a PS90 then say look the pistol is designed to do the same thing?
Otto
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In the Virginia Tech massacre Cho killed 32 people using two handguns one being a Walther P22 (.22lr) and the other a Glock 19 (9mm).
It appears that Hasan had used two guns as well. Both carried spare magazines.
What's odd is that Hasan had also attended Virginia Tech.
I think Hasan was using the same blueprint as Cho.
I've heard that Hasan is paralyzed from his injuries. If so, he probably won't get the death penalty due to his disabilities. However, Texas has been known to execute retarded offenders so who knows.
I live about 30 minutes from Killeen. This isn't the first massacre to occur. In '91 George Hennard assassinated 24 people in a Luby's cafeteria.
It appears that Hasan had used two guns as well. Both carried spare magazines.
What's odd is that Hasan had also attended Virginia Tech.
I think Hasan was using the same blueprint as Cho.
I've heard that Hasan is paralyzed from his injuries. If so, he probably won't get the death penalty due to his disabilities. However, Texas has been known to execute retarded offenders so who knows.
I live about 30 minutes from Killeen. This isn't the first massacre to occur. In '91 George Hennard assassinated 24 people in a Luby's cafeteria.
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Sgt. Stiglitz
Member
Plain old Ball 7.62x25 will go through both sides of a Level IIA vest
Plain old Ball 7.62x25 will go through both sides of a Level IIA vest and the aluminum splash plate...........like butter.
Done it with expired vests. Exprired doesn't mean it wont stop bullets, it's a way of making you buy new ones.......:banghead:
Plain old Ball 7.62x25 will go through both sides of a Level IIA vest and the aluminum splash plate...........like butter.
Done it with expired vests. Exprired doesn't mean it wont stop bullets, it's a way of making you buy new ones.......:banghead:sniper5
Member
OK, here's something the media hasn't got a grip on yet. Or maybe they have and know they can use it at their leisure: ALL materials can be penetrated, and ALL bullets can be stopped. Just have to have the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) combination.
One reason he may have chosen the FN Five-Seven is that has standard 20-round mags, and is available with 30-round extended mags. Plus, low recoil for fast follow-up shots, particularly for a reportedly inexperienced handgun shooter. So, it's a good choice of you're a muzzy terrorist planning to shoot up a crowd of people and want to shoot the most people possible without having to reload as often. I think this guy did his homework. 
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