Full auto AR-15 conversion

[Offwhite]

Are there any full auto drop-in coversions available for an AR-15? And my last question is you can own a pre-ban fully automatic weapon but can you can convert an assault rifle made pre-ban to full auto? Can you turn a post-ban into a full auto? Whats the difference?

 

[odysseus]

I have some red flags and concerns with this post...

 

[.45Guy]

There's no difference, you just need to do the applicable paperwork, pay the $200 tax for your drop in auto sear, and then find a bolt carrier, disconnector, selector, and hammer.

 

[Kaylee]

Offwhite -- it looks like you're confusing the '94-'04 "assault weapon" ban with the various weapon restrictions of 1933 and the closure of the NFA registry for full-autos in 1986.

Full auto weapons have been tightly restricted since 1933. Between 1933 and 1986, one had to get approval from one's local sheriff, pay $200 (which was a LOT of money in 1933) and wait for a tax stamp in order to purchase a full-auto firearm. The firearm went on a federal registry, and a new stamp would have to be purchased any time it was transferred to a new owner. This was passed back when the feds remembered that the Constitution didn't give 'em the power to do anything they wanted, so they used the tax laws to effect a de facto gun ban.

In 1986, as part of the "compromise" to remove some of the more egregious restrictions of the '68 Gun Control Act, the federal registry was closed to full auto firearms. Since then, it has been ILLEGAL to convert semi-auto weapons to full auto for civilian use.

The ban of 94-04 didn't affect that one tiny little bit.

So the short answer is.. no. You can't do it.

The longer answer is... if you're a manufacturer who jumps through a lot of hoops and pays a lot of taxes and fees and such.. you sort of can, but you can't keep any if your (expensive) manufacturing license ever expires.

45Guy -- I believe your information is incorrect. Or at least, incomplete.
That's the case only when you're talking about a DIAS that was in the federal registry prior to 1986, and is legal for commerical civilian transfer. They cost mucho dinero, since there's only so many of 'em, and for legal purposes *are* "the machine gun."

The $200 DIAS one sees in SGN and the like will land one in prison quick-like if installed in your everyday AR.

 

[HankB]

The $200 DIAS one sees in SGN and the like will land one in prison quick-like if installed in your everyday AR.

And no doubt the BATmen are fully aware of these sources, and can access their records, or their shipper's records . . . assuming it's not a BATF "sting" from the beginning. After which they may come knocking on your door. (If you're lucky they'll knock.)

Unless you're not averse to a stay in Club Fed, best do things legally, despite the high dollar cost. Temporary poverty can be rectified, a felony record is much more long term.

 

[Offwhite]

There should be no red flag I was just curious. Thanks for explaining the differences though.

 

[.45Guy]

That would be why I mentioned the applicable paper work and 200 tax stamp. The registered DIAS is considered the MG and would be legit to drop in. Anything else purchased through some Shady McNasty dealer wouldn't require said paperwork, and would indeed land you in

federal pound me in th a#$ prison.

 

[odysseus]

There should be no red flag I was just curious. Thanks for explaining the differences though.

Sorry, meant nothing by it negative - just I knew it was illegal, since it started life not being NFA registered. I knew someone like Kaylee would come in and lay it down in better detail then I would.

 

[DMK]

I have some red flags and concerns with this post...

Better that he asks the question and gets some right answers from those who know, then the alternative. Especially in a topic with so much misinformation out there.




Now I have a question:

Say you did buy a DIAS with your tax stamp. Would you be allowed to drop this in any receiver, or would you have to keep it paired with a specific receiver? In other words, could I give my first born and left kidney for a legal pre-86 DIAS, then drop in in a brand shiny new Bushmaster and maybe later put it in a new RRA, etc?

 

[Father Knows Best]

Now I have a question:

Say you did buy a DIAS with your tax stamp. Would you be allowed to drop this in any receiver, or would you have to keep it paired with a specific receiver? In other words, could I give my first born and left kidney for a legal pre-86 DIAS, then drop in in a brand shiny new Bushmaster and maybe later put it in a new RRA, etc?

Good question. I'd like to know the answer, too. I often hear the term "married" in reference to autosears, both in the AR and the HK world. For instance, people talk about an "unmarried" sear vs. a "married" sear. From what I understand, a "married" sear is one that can only be used in the host firearm to which it is married, but an "unmarried" sear is one that can be used in any host.

Can anyone explain it any better?

 

[Kaylee]

From what I understood from the SOT I worked with once upon a time, yes you can move the DIAS from one receiver to the next, but the DIAS always the legal machine gun.

Thus, you can have a 14.5" bbl on your Bushmaster with the DIAS, since it's a machine gun. BUT.. the short barreled upper had better be off before you take out the DIAS and put it in the Rock River, or you just made yourself an illegal Short Barreled Rifle.

Yes, it's stupid.

 

[TaxPhd]

The answer to the questions is Yes.

It can be accomplished with either a DIAS or a Lightning Link. Either way it must be a pre '86 DIAS or Link.

There is no "marrying" with Ar-15's and DIAS' or Lightning Links. The DIAS or Link is the machinegun and it may be placed in any weapon.

A DIAS is generally more durable than a link, and as a result will be more costly.

No problem using either a pre or post ban AR-15 as the host rifle.




Scott

 

[444]

Either a registered drop in auto sear or a lightning link may be purchased through an NFA dealer in your state. You find such items on-line on sites such as AR15.com equipment exchange, or subguns.com. The goodies need transfered from the owner to your dealer, then from the dealer to you. Expect to pay $3500 for a smoking deal on up to maybe five or six grand. Anything that doesn't involve this paperwork and outlay of cash is probably not on the up and up. Beware. Walk away.
Note that DIAS and LLs will not fit in all AR15s. Some manufacturers like Colt has specifically designed their receivers with a shelf so that they can not go full auto without machine work. Bushmaster is OK.
Here is a link discussing "RDIAS vs RLL vs RR - pros and cons" (regitered drop in auto sears vs. registered lighning links vs. registered receivers). http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=194570

 

[odysseus]

Either a registered drop in auto sear or a lightning link may be purchased through an NFA dealer in your state. You find such items on-line on sites such as AR15.com equipment exchange, or subguns.com. The goodies need transfered from the owner to your dealer, then from the dealer to you. Expect to pay $3500 for a smoking deal on up to maybe five or six grand. Anything that doesn't involve this paperwork and outlay of cash is probably not on the up and up. Beware. Walk away.

So you might be able to buy the part. But are you saying then you can use this in your post-ban civi AR? You can't convert that AR as I understand. And owning say this auto sear and owning a a post-ban AR constitutes a bit of trouble for you with the BATF, correct?

I swear everytime this comes up, I think I know and then get confused. That's of course because these laws are all screwed up.

 

[CleverNickname]

There is no "marrying" with Ar-15's and DIAS' or Lightning Links. The DIAS or Link is the machinegun and it may be placed in any weapon.

There are married DIASes. They were created when someone used a DIAS to make a full-auto AR, but put the serial number of the lower receiver on the form 1. If they had put a serial number on the DIAS and put that serial number on the form 1, then the DIAS would be the registered part, and could be moved from gun to gun. I've never heard of a married link, but it could be possible by the same method.

 

[CleverNickname]

Expect to pay $3500 for a smoking deal on up to maybe five or six grand.

Even $5-6k is a smoking deal. Lightning links are now usually around $7k, registered receiver conversions and RDIASes usually start just below $10k. Colts are 12-13K and up.

If you know of any RRs or RDIASes for $5-6k, please let me know.

 

[444]

"So you might be able to buy the part."
You can buy the part if you live somewhere that it is legal to own. I can buy the part here in Nevada.

" But are you saying then you can use this in your post-ban civi AR? "
Yes, the gun doesn't have anything to do with it. As far as the ATF is concerned, the machine gun is the DIAS or the LL, the AR15 is a non issue to them.

"You can't convert that AR as I understand. "
No, you can't covert the AR15 to select fire using M16 parts to replace your current fire control parts, but you can do it with a drop in auto sear or a registered lightning link.

"And owning say this auto sear and owning a a post-ban AR constitutes a bit of trouble for you with the BATF, correct?"

No trouble at all.


Now, there might have been some kind of issue with this during the so called assult weapons ban, I don't remember. But that is over now and it is no longer an issue.
I know that during that ban, you couldn't register a post ban rifle as a short barreled rifle, but I don't know about using a drop in auto sear: I don't think that was an issue even then, but I don't remember: either way, it doesn't matter now.

 

[Mannlicher]

New member, asking about 'full auto conversions'....... hmmmmmmmmm I smell an Alphabet troll

 

[CleverNickname]

"So you might be able to buy the part."
Now, there might have been some kind of issue with this during the so called assult weapons ban, I don't remember. But that is over now and it is no longer an issue.
I know that during that ban, you couldn't register a post ban rifle as a short barreled rifle, but I don't know about using a drop in auto sear: I don't think that was an issue even then, but I don't remember: either way, it doesn't matter now.

During the AWB, you could register a post-ban gun as an SBR. It's just that you still couldn't add any more evil features to the gun.

If you had a post-ban RDIAS host gun, then it could have as many evil features as you wanted, as long as it was the host. You're right, it's all academic now though.

 

[DMK]

New member, asking about 'full auto conversions'....... hmmmmmmmmm I smell an Alphabet troll

Or..... he could just be somebody who came here to learn about guns and stuff.

Now, there might have been some kind of issue with this during the so called assult weapons ban, I don't remember. But that is over now and it is no longer an issue.

It's my understanding that under the AWB, an assault weapon was either a semi-auto rifle, semi-auto pistol or semi- or pump shotgun with a certain number of "evil features". An SBR would be a semi-auto rifle, but since a machine gun was not, it was exempt from the AWB.

But yea, the point is moot now.

 

[musher]

New member, asking about 'full auto conversions'....... hmmmmmmmmm I smell an Alphabet troll

Or maybe an alphabet guy who's trying to figure out what the rules REALLY are.

 

[Kaylee]

Or maybe an alphabet guy who's trying to figure out what the rules REALLY are.

You just made my night. Thank you.

 

[444]

What the rules are depend totally on who you talk to, or what the jury believes.
Call ATF five times, get five different answers. Could be that none of them are right.
Any time you are trying to do something out of the mainstream, contact ATF for the answers. And get it in writing. Keep a copy somewhere safe.

 

[AZRickD]

Anyone who is serious about Class III (and isn't independently wealthy) should either become a Class III dealer, where you can buy a new M16 for $800 (rather than a transferable pre-1986 for $14,000). You could become a Class III dealer and would be able to swap machine guns and suppressors and short-barreled longguns with ease. The cost of the annual license would take 14 years to achieve the cost of one transferable gun...

-or-

You could consider becoming a Class II Manufacturer which is cheaper than being a Class III dealer and allows all sorts of flexibility.

Rick

 

[swingset]

Anyone who is serious about Class III (and isn't independently wealthy) should either become a Class III dealer, where you can buy a new M16 for $800

If only that was all there was too it.

You're forgetting about some pesky little details.