Blackbeard
Member
Just curious -- what does it take to legally own a fully automatic weapon?
Full auto legal
- Thread starter Blackbeard
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CDignition
Member
First thing you need to do is move to another state....
Da rulez... Go Here:
http://www.machinegun.com/nfarules.pdf
Heres a little NFO too:
Contrary to popular belief, silencers are and always have been legal to own under federal law. There are, however, 16 states, plus the District of Columbia that prohibit the civilian ownership of silencers. At this time, the following states allow private ownership of silencers: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WI, and WY. Of the fifteen states that do not allow civilian ownership, CA, IA, KS, MA, MO, and MI allow Class 3 dealers and Class two manufacturers to possess silencers.
Silencers, like machine-guns, are proscribed under the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, and are regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. The procedure for owning a silencer may seem daunting at first, but actually requires less paperwork than buying an automobile.
To legally purchase a silencer or any item falling under the purview of the NFA, you must be at least 21 years of age, a resident of the United States, and have no felony record. The first step is to locate a Class 3 dealer in your state who either has or will order the item you are interested in. Once a product and price have been settled on, the Class 3 dealer will provide the prospective purchaser with duplicate ATF Form 4's and two sets of fingerprint cards. The Form 4's must be filled out on both sides, with passport photos of the prospective buyer affixed to the backside of the form. The buyer then has the Chief Law-Enforcement officer* sign the rear of the Form 4's attesting the prospective purchaser does not possess a criminal record and is not wanted. The two fingerprint cards must be completed and signed by a Law Enforcement agency. The completed paperwork is then sent to the Department of the Treasury with a check or money order for $200.00. The $200.00 is known as a "transfer tax" because as it must be paid whenever ownership of the silencer is "transferred" (in this case, the dealer to the prospective purchaser). As long as ownership remains with the same person, the tax need not be paid again. Only if the owner sells it will a new transfer tax need to be paid. An owner may will his silencer to a lawful heir with no tax incurred.
Once the paper work is submitted, it normally takes 60 to 120 days to receive the approved, stamped paperwork from NFA Branch. It is only upon the return of the approved paperwork that the dealer can allow the prospective purchaser to take possession of their new silencer. A copy of the approved paperwork must accompany the silencer at all times (the original should be stored in a safe deposit box). Silencers can be transported to other states that allow their ownership, but to transport a silencer into one of the sixteen states which prohibit private ownership can subject the owner to serious state felony charges.
*The following is a list of typically encountered Chief Law Enforcement Officers (CLEO):
* Sheriff
* Chief of Police
* Head of State Police Agency
* District Attorney
* A judge with the power of arrest
* Any other law enforcement officer approved for this procedure by the National Firearms Act branch of the BATF.
Da rulez... Go Here:
http://www.machinegun.com/nfarules.pdf
Heres a little NFO too:
Contrary to popular belief, silencers are and always have been legal to own under federal law. There are, however, 16 states, plus the District of Columbia that prohibit the civilian ownership of silencers. At this time, the following states allow private ownership of silencers: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WI, and WY. Of the fifteen states that do not allow civilian ownership, CA, IA, KS, MA, MO, and MI allow Class 3 dealers and Class two manufacturers to possess silencers.
Silencers, like machine-guns, are proscribed under the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, and are regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. The procedure for owning a silencer may seem daunting at first, but actually requires less paperwork than buying an automobile.
To legally purchase a silencer or any item falling under the purview of the NFA, you must be at least 21 years of age, a resident of the United States, and have no felony record. The first step is to locate a Class 3 dealer in your state who either has or will order the item you are interested in. Once a product and price have been settled on, the Class 3 dealer will provide the prospective purchaser with duplicate ATF Form 4's and two sets of fingerprint cards. The Form 4's must be filled out on both sides, with passport photos of the prospective buyer affixed to the backside of the form. The buyer then has the Chief Law-Enforcement officer* sign the rear of the Form 4's attesting the prospective purchaser does not possess a criminal record and is not wanted. The two fingerprint cards must be completed and signed by a Law Enforcement agency. The completed paperwork is then sent to the Department of the Treasury with a check or money order for $200.00. The $200.00 is known as a "transfer tax" because as it must be paid whenever ownership of the silencer is "transferred" (in this case, the dealer to the prospective purchaser). As long as ownership remains with the same person, the tax need not be paid again. Only if the owner sells it will a new transfer tax need to be paid. An owner may will his silencer to a lawful heir with no tax incurred.
Once the paper work is submitted, it normally takes 60 to 120 days to receive the approved, stamped paperwork from NFA Branch. It is only upon the return of the approved paperwork that the dealer can allow the prospective purchaser to take possession of their new silencer. A copy of the approved paperwork must accompany the silencer at all times (the original should be stored in a safe deposit box). Silencers can be transported to other states that allow their ownership, but to transport a silencer into one of the sixteen states which prohibit private ownership can subject the owner to serious state felony charges.
*The following is a list of typically encountered Chief Law Enforcement Officers (CLEO):
* Sheriff
* Chief of Police
* Head of State Police Agency
* District Attorney
* A judge with the power of arrest
* Any other law enforcement officer approved for this procedure by the National Firearms Act branch of the BATF.
Neo-Luddite
Member
Be a citizen of Iraq and reside there. Or, move to Indiana and save your $$$. When you have a SOLID 5K saved, start looking. Illinois does not allow NFA weapons to be owned by the little people.
Outlaws
Member
Yeah, $5k if you want a nice conditioned "new" Mac10 or a down payment on an Uzi.
When you have $20k you can actually browse a bit. When you have $30k you can be really picky about your M16, or even dabble in the HK world. At $50k you can have all but the rarest or finest examples the FA community has to offer.
When you have $20k you can actually browse a bit. When you have $30k you can be really picky about your M16, or even dabble in the HK world. At $50k you can have all but the rarest or finest examples the FA community has to offer.
Neo-Luddite
Member
I was thinking entry level. Yeah, pathetic we actually think that way at all--for the sake of some schmuck back in 1986.
Valkman
Member
If you can own full auto where you live, a good Class 3 FFL will help you with the paperwork. If you get the FFL I used, he'll finally get around to telling you your supressor was approved 8 months after the fact. I still don't have it!
748
member
The last Form 1 I did for a sawed off shot gun got mailed on May 7, the ATF approved it then the NFA cashed the check and was on Mar 29.
They are getting quick these days.
They are getting quick these days.
LAK Supply
Member
$5k will also get you a nice little AC556.... 
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Outside of Illinois and a few other states, it just requires a squeaky clean record, patience, knowledge of the law and the BATFE approval process, and lots and lots of money.
OP
OP
Blackbeard
Member
Thanks for the info. I'll file it away in the back of my head for when I'm looking for my next job.
mgregg85
Member
Wait a second... This can't all be right. According to what I watched on BBC can't you just walk into any grocery store and come out packing an AK-47 or M-16? I thought America was the land of death and violence with an automatic weapon in each and every hand?
Where'd you hear all this crazy stuff about licensing?
Where'd you hear all this crazy stuff about licensing?
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Outlaws
Member
Where did you? There is no license needed.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Where's it say all that in the Second Amendment?
theken206
Member
"Where's it say all that in the Second Amendment?"
hidden somewhere with 1700's micro film somewhere next to the words "shall not be infringed??
hidden somewhere with 1700's micro film somewhere next to the words "shall not be infringed??
biggiesmalls
Member
mgregg85
getting your information from BBC. that's where you went wrong!
getting your information from BBC. that's where you went wrong!
Remontoire
Member
Hmm .. seems to me I am better off in Czech Republic...
With* the interior ministry extemption (roughly the same amount of paperwork and some background check), one can buy an LMG for 300$, millitary surplus SMGs for similar amounts. New SMGs are expensive though, a newly manufactured 9mm Scorpion (vz.61 smg) costs roughly a 1000$.
*(a valid collector\'s permit.. you have to pass a test to prove you can handle guns safely and that you understand the gun law)
With* the interior ministry extemption (roughly the same amount of paperwork and some background check), one can buy an LMG for 300$, millitary surplus SMGs for similar amounts. New SMGs are expensive though, a newly manufactured 9mm Scorpion (vz.61 smg) costs roughly a 1000$.
*(a valid collector\'s permit.. you have to pass a test to prove you can handle guns safely and that you understand the gun law)
biggiesmalls
Member
hmm, i'm gonna czech that out!
Remontoire
Member
On second thoughts .. maybe the US system is better..
It depends on the county ... somewhere, the cops might issue the extemption, in other places you have to have a very good excuse..
like being in military re-enactment (then, no one\'ll question the MG-34),
being in the security business, or just an collector.. In some places, it\'s impossible for an ordinary man, in others it\'s not that hard.
In any case, once you have it, the cops have the right to come to your home at any time(without a warrant) to see whether you store them properly.
(that is, in a fireproof locker or a safe)
I\'ll try applying for an extemption as a collector, at the end of the year and then I\'ll see.
Overall... only a minority of gun-owners have those extemptions, but then there are many people who bought de-activated guns and had them re-activated... it can be done, though it takes some work*. (and is blatantly illegal of course). I don\'t have any respect for these laws that only make lives of law-abiding people harder, so if I don\'t get it, I\'ll be tempted to pursue that course. (criminals don\'t care .. every last gang hit is accomplished with an sa. vz 58. It\'s as light as an Uzi, fires the 7.62x39 bullet..I swear, they never use anything else)
*plugging the 3 holes drilled into the barrel is the hardest bit..
It depends on the county ... somewhere, the cops might issue the extemption, in other places you have to have a very good excuse..
like being in military re-enactment (then, no one\'ll question the MG-34),
being in the security business, or just an collector.. In some places, it\'s impossible for an ordinary man, in others it\'s not that hard.
In any case, once you have it, the cops have the right to come to your home at any time(without a warrant) to see whether you store them properly.
(that is, in a fireproof locker or a safe)
I\'ll try applying for an extemption as a collector, at the end of the year and then I\'ll see.
Overall... only a minority of gun-owners have those extemptions, but then there are many people who bought de-activated guns and had them re-activated... it can be done, though it takes some work*. (and is blatantly illegal of course). I don\'t have any respect for these laws that only make lives of law-abiding people harder, so if I don\'t get it, I\'ll be tempted to pursue that course. (criminals don\'t care .. every last gang hit is accomplished with an sa. vz 58. It\'s as light as an Uzi, fires the 7.62x39 bullet..I swear, they never use anything else)
*plugging the 3 holes drilled into the barrel is the hardest bit..
ServiceSoon
Member
The current US laws regarding title II weapons (aka silencers, full-auto, short barreled rifles) is a de facto ban of ownership for average citizen. Only rich people and criminals can have them. I thought this was the land of the free?
Prince Yamato
Member
If I had an automatic weapon legally held in each hand, I'd be living in the land of milk and honey.
Frog48
Member
Lots and lots of money.
Aside from closing the machine gun registry in 1986 causing a limited number of full autos and artificially high prices, there is no defacto ban. Even the CLEO sign-off is pretty easy to bypass, while still being able to have legal posession of the item (ie. incorporation or trust- provided your state alows it)
$200 is a bit of money, but not a defacto ban by any means. For less than $300 (including tax), you can make a single shot SBS or for $400 a pump.
People do it every day, from all walks of life. I just got a form 1 approved in 32 days- I should be recieving it in the mail any day now, and I, like many Title II owners am just average person.
CDignition
Member
Think of Full Auto NFA weapons as the Musclecars of the gun world... full Auto M60 would be the 71 Hemicuda,lol...
Theres only so many to go around, so the price rises with demand.
Theres only so many to go around, so the price rises with demand.
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