Full auto simulating triggers. Are they bunk?

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bhhacker

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A friend and I were talking about gat and tac triggers. He says that his uncle had one and it worked pretty decently.

I must admit, as a range toy, it would be fun to have a 22 with one of those systems on it.

Im not asking about modifying the sear or doing anything illegal, have any of you used those trigger systems and had good results?

I have a marlin model 60 that i would probably not modify anyway, but it would be nice to know more about these in case i was looking to modify guns legally to fire faster.

What are your experiences, good or bad with these and can it even be done with a marlin 60?
 
I would be interested to know too, about those cranks. Saw one in a catalog for $25. Every time you crank is 4 trigger pulls. Definitely would be fun at the range. I am tempted to just risk it, they aren't too expensive.
 
I had a chance to see a 22 gatling gun in action. It was made from twin 10-22's. Looked like a lot of fun. Not sure of the rate of fire, but it certainly sounded full auto and emptied the magazines in nothing flat.
 
I've personally never had much success trying to bumpfire a .22, but crank designs like the BMF Activater work fairly well with them. I've never tried any of the "devices", other than the BMF that I picked up 30 years ago for about $10.

Apparently the old Poor Mans Machingun site is no longer up, but if you search for the name on YouTube you'll find all sorts of videos and information. Just be careful, while bumpfiring with your finger or thumb is legal, as is using a rubber band to increase return force on the trigger, the ATF has ruled that anything that connects the trigger directly to a moving part of the weapon is not, even if it's just a piece of string and a keychain ring it's considered a machine gun according to Federal law.

The idea has been discussed here before, apparently some people can make it work with a light weapon equipped with a very light trigger pull.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=260433
 
Be sure to check your local laws prior to taking possession. They are Verboten in some areas.

MN prohibits any add-on aux trigger or crank devices.

The slidefire looks interesting, but I would not want to be the test case in MN trying to establish whether it's legal to own here.
 
Haven't done any with a 22, but the rubber band method works very well on my ar.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 
The only thing I ever tried is a stock on a friend's AK that actually worked. I had this plastic crap I bought with a crank handle and a "hellfire" trigger gismo, went behind the trigger, a spring thingy. Worthless.

This thing is pricey and I really ain't in to tacticool stuff anyway. My buddy has a REAL class 3 Cobray M11, he's just into wasting ammo I guess. One thing that Cobray is that no trigger gismo could hope to be is a good investment. The price ain't goin' down, put it that way.

I kinda like that bump fire stock thing, instant choice for semi auto. Just a technique to using it. I was able to dump a 20 round mag into the center of a barrel considerably faster than I can type about it, this from about 15 yards. :D I will say, the forward grip he had on it helped a lot. The gun was modified with a rail and forward grip which made pushing forward and hanging on pretty easy.

http://www.slidefirestock.com/?gclid=CIb1m_GW17ICFXCmPAodzlYATg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFVUQru2THo
 
My buddy has a REAL class 3 Cobray M11, he's just into wasting ammo I guess.
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He is if he doesnt know how to shoot it. Once you learn the technique, they are very easy to shoot well with, as are most all of them. Once you shoot them a little while, full mag dumps with one pull of the trigger into a paper plate at 10 yards, is pretty easy to do.


The problem with bump fire is, its a gimmick. Its fun to let 'er rip, but you dont have the on demand control you have with the real thing. As long as you know that, its fine. If you think its just as good, youre just fooling yourself.
 
AK103K said:
He is if he doesnt know how to shoot it. Once you learn the technique, they are very easy to shoot well with, as are most all of them. Once you shoot them a little while, full mag dumps with one pull of the trigger into a paper plate at 10 yards, is pretty easy to do.


The problem with bump fire is, its a gimmick. Its fun to let 'er rip, but you dont have the on demand control you have with the real thing. As long as you know that, its fine. If you think its just as good, youre just fooling yourself.
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Get a buddy to hold an open ammo can, and you can aim all the brass into a nice little stream into the can.. then you don't have to pick up the brass :D

Too bad it bulges the brass so badly...
 
I have a BMF Activator for my 10/22. It's cheap plastic, and I don't expect it to last very long, but it's been a hoot the times we've had it at the range. Even the RSO's came over and wanted to shoot it.

It was a lot cheaper than renting an Uzi or AK-47, like my son has been trying convince me I NEED to.
 
Other than as an engineering exercise -- a quite possibly illegal one -- what purpose would a full auto /22 serve?
 
Full auto .22's have been around for years, and are in fact, a pretty devistating weapon. The Americal 180 was in use with a couple of government agaencies in a couple of configurations. Ive seen videos of them being used to saw off the ends of railraod ties and batter their way through car doors and other barriers.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Amer...ULbG30AH3qYGoDw&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1166&bih=764

The one .22 FA I wish Id bought back in the mid 90's, but was lacking the funds at the time, was a converted and suppressed 10-22 that was chopped down to just fit into a Butler Creek folding stock. The nose of the suppressor just protruded past the forearm of the stock. The selector was a small lever on the trigger, and with a drum mag, was quite impressive when shot.

It was similar to this, but the barrel was shorter, and the supressor ran the full length of the barrel, like the suppressed 10-22 rifles you see.

20120614_112638resize-300x225.jpg
 
The thing that keeps me away from the devices is that i can already shoot fast, look at Paintball trigger training techniques, and practice, it builds speed in your hands and then your not stuck with a crank sticking out the side, as fire as bump firing goes, i did it with a shotgun(skeet shooting) never gonna do it again
 
I've used a couple of these trigger devices. They are a quick way to turn money into noise
 
Do these things come with letters from the ATF? I could see one crank of the knob = four rounds fired = machine gun.
 
In most areas, as long as its a mechanical crank, its not a machine gun , if you hooked up a small motor to it, it more then likely would be illegal
 
Well hell, I just gotta ask. If you get a crank device or anything else that gets the semi auto 22 to sounding like something full auto and bump firing, are you hitting a target with any amount of accuracy. I just don't see that happening. I've seen guys bump firing but all they are doing is spraying some lead and not hitting squat. Guess I've fired enough real full autos to not let these methods get me excited. I can't see shooting without having a target of some type to do your best to hit.
 
The slidefire looks interesting
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Unless you have a light trigger, they don't work. Tried one on my Armalite M15A2C with stock 2-stage mil spec trigger, could barely get a double. And they're quite expensive (over $300)

The problem with bump fire is, its a gimmick.
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Depends. I had a Lancaster Tantal sidefolder 5.45, and I could bump fire from the shoulder with a surprising degree of accuracy.

In most areas, as long as its a mechanical crank, its not a machine gun , if you hooked up a small motor to it, it more then likely would be illegal
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Correct. Federally, a manual crank does not constitute a machine gun, but a powered unit does.
 
I could see one crank of the knob = four rounds fired = machine gun.
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Those four rounds are all fired by an individual "pull" of the trigger. They are not all fired by a single pull, which is the definition of a machine gun.

If you get a crank device or anything else that gets the semi auto 22 to sounding like something full auto and bump firing, are you hitting a target with any amount of accuracy.
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Ive shot a 10-22 with a BMF Activator and a 50 mag on it, and you can hold the gun in your shoulder and reasonably use the sights while you crank. At 10-15 yards, you can keep most all the rounds COM on a standard IPSC type silhouette.

I agree about the bump firing as well, although I have seen a couple of videos with the rubber band method where they were doing pretty good with it bumping from the shoulder. Still, its nothing like true full auto in terms of on demand shooting and control. You also dont see them shooting from anything but a static position either. Ive yet to see anyone bump fire while on the move.
 
Unless you have a light trigger, they don't work. Tried one on my Armalite M15A2C with stock 2-stage mil spec trigger, could barely get a double. And they're quite expensive (over $300)
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Too costly, I agree, but it worked great on my bud's Romanian AK which didn't have a particularly light trigger. I was fairly accurate with it, too, as you shoulder the gun and put your finger across the trigger/stock extension and aim and push forward on the forward grip. I was rather impressed at its controllability and you can instantly go semi auto without flipping any switches.

Do I NEED this thing?...no. Do I want one?...not considering I don't own an AK or AR and the thing costs 3 times what my SKS cost me back in the early 90s. Only reason I tacticooled a paratrooper Norinco SKS is because I could and it was dirt cheap, 115 bucks for the gun. I gave 75 dollars for my Norinco SKS rifle. I gave about 40 bucks for a folder for the SKS. I would NOT turn the gun into a bump fire for 300 bucks considering I have no use for such a thing, anyway, and really don't enjoy wasting ammo. I would rather HIT with one round than spray 50 and get 3 hits. :rolleyes:

But, the world's full of mall ninjas. :rolleyes: That's what sells this stuff. These sliding bump fire stock is the ONLY thing I've ever tried that actually worked. I had one of those crank handle things, worthless, didn't work. I never tried it on a 10/22, but it didn't work on anything else and it kept me from putting the safety on with the SKS, not cool.
 
The slidefire looks interesting
Click to expand...
Unless you have a light trigger, they don't work. Tried one on my Armalite M15A2C with stock 2-stage mil spec trigger, could barely get a double.
Click to expand...

Funny, I use mine on a 7.62x25 AR built using a DPMS lower parts kit, works a treat (I got like 20K rounds back when it was cheap surplus, shot about half of it up so far). The Slidefire really does need a mil-spec diameter buffer tube, maybe that was the issue.


And they're quite expensive (over $300)
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Unfortunately, very true.


The BMF activator on a pistol gripped 10/22 with a bipod is a lot of fun, but the BMF will booger up the bottom of the trigger guard eventually -- doens't bother me, but it could be an issue. I'm pretty sure the BMF activator was made to only work on a 10/22 and the manual came with it warns to use it on only on .22LR rifles
 
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