Full length guide rod, good or bad?

[Baneblade]

I have heard that a full length guide rod on a full size 1911 is not a good idea. I was specifically told that this applied to Combat 1911's and not target 1911's. However, the person that told me this could not explain why.

Can anyone educate me as to why this is or is not true? Can a full length guide rod on a 1911 cause reliability issues? Is there any benefit to a standard Govt length rod other than weight?

 

[littlelefty]

My Springer Loaded came with a FLGR. Once during a range session I noticed it was loose. However, I replaced it mostly because I use a conversion kit and wanted to be able to make the switch without tools. (I once left my allen wrench at home and could not use the kit:banghead

I suspect you'll get lots of input as to good, bad, or indifference regarding FLGR. I noticed no change in function of my pistol or grouping of my shots after changing to the standard rod; it's just easier to field strip.

p.s. I did not answer whatever your question was, just offered opinions

 

[JDGray]

Takedown is easier without the FLGR, and you cant rack the slide by pushing the muzzle against somthing with one in, either. If in a combat situation, and one of your hands gets shot off, you'll wish you had the GI plug system on a reload

 

[sturmgewehr]

Most top end gun makers will tell you the guide rod does little to improve accuracy or reliability of the 1911. It was all the rage back in the 1980's and early 90's but there has been little evidence that it improves any attribute of the 1911 design. The only bonus I can think of is that it puts a little extra weight out towards the muzzle to help with recoil, but not much.

The Springfield Professional selected by the FBI after serious testing (probably the most rigorous test of the 1911 design) has no FLGR. The Marine MEUSOC 1911 lacks a FLGR.

In essence you're adding a new part to a design that absolutely doesn't need it. Logic would dictate that the more parts you add to a design that aren't necessary the less efficient that machine will be.

Here's a couple of articles that might help answer your question.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_165_27/ai_105698456
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_165_27/ai_105698456

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I have replaced the FLGR in my 1911s with the standard GI configuration.

 

[sturmgewehr]

LG, that's a common practice and I think a sound decision on your part.

 

[longeyes]

Swapped mine out and went G.I. with Kimber and S&W PD. FLGR is not worth the hassle. I don't see the benefit and the change back to G.I. produced no functionality issues. The fact that disassembly and re-assembly are rendered easier is compelling.

 

[mavracer]

I replaced it mostly because I use a conversion kit and wanted to be able to make the switch without tools.

what kind of conversion?
with my 22 conv. I actually like the FLGR you can remove slide stop and change slide assys with out disassembling them.

 

[RNB65]

I switched the guide rod in my Loaded Springer to a shorty and it runs fine. I can't tell any difference in accuracy and takedown/reassembly is a whole lot easier. I hated the two piece rod as it would always come loose during shooting and had to be tightened every 25rnds or so.

 

[Baneblade]

Thanks for the input and the "opinions" are just as welcome at this point. The consensus seems to be consistent. FLGR provides no real benefit and, most importantly, does not improve reliability.

Thanks for the help.

 

[AndyC]

I once tried out the Wilson Group Gripper, which is a 2-piece FLGR with a flat spring at the back which pushes the rear of the barrel up for consistency, which of course aids with accuracy.

It did a pretty good job at that, but I disliked the fact that I needed an Allen-key wrench in order to disassemble the pistol by unscrewing the front part of the GR from the rear. Interesting device, but my 1911 was used for more than just range-play so I ditched it.

 

[10X]

The FLGR is aonther of those 1911 gadgets that are a solution to a nonexistent problem. You don't need them. Just like extended slide stops, extended thumb safeties and beavertail grip safeties.

 

[Boats]

The FLGR is always the first thing to be modified out of any 1911A1 I buy which sports one.

Mammary glands on a bull.

 

[MountainBear]

I am the exact opposite. I put full length guide rods into my 1911's as soon as I get them, assuming they don't come with them. While it may or may not do much for accuracy, I feel they cyle better, smoother, with the FLGR.
I do not have any reason to be putting my finger under the muzzle of a loaded .45 to check the chamber (might be the dumbest thing I've heard today). If you want to press check, get a 1911 with front strap serrations and keep your damn hand out from in front of the muzzle, lest you start looking like a four-fingered carpenter. If you need to operate the gun one-handed, well, my answer to this would just be rude, so I won't include it here.
As with everything, this is a personal choice. Try both and pick the one YOU like rather than what a bunch of guys on a board who may or may not know what they are talking about (I do include myself in this statement, as I am posting here as well) tell you that you should do.

 

[sturmgewehr]

I am the exact opposite. I put full length guide rods into my 1911's as soon as I get them, assuming they don't come with them. While it may or may not do much for accuracy, I feel they cyle better, smoother, with the FLGR.

What you "feel" and what actually happens are likely two different things. Most people who build 1911's professionally and most people who use them extensively (the "pros") agree that FLGR's have little to no benefit and could quite possibly reduce reliability. Either way, one thing is absolutely certain - a 1911 without a FLGR is as good as it gets and adding a FLGR does not improve accuracy or reliability. So why put one in? Most people do it anymore because it looks cool. I don't get into gizmo's hanging off my guns or cars because they look cool, so I avoid them where I can.

If you need to operate the gun one-handed, well, my answer to this would just be rude, so I won't include it here.

So you don't think you'll ever get wounded? Interesting. I guess all the guys teaching combat handgun courses are idiots because they teach you one hand operation. I guess you could teach them a thing or two, you should call them up and offer your services.

 

[1911 guy]

FLGR vs. GI plug.

Reliability is a toss-up. Your pistol either runs or it doesn't, swapping guide rods won't change that.

Charging the pistol with one hand is nigh on impossible with a FLGR. Mine are carry guns, so I may well be holding a flashlight, struggling with someone or be partially incapacitated. This is important to me.

Some target shooters like the tungsten FLGR because it adds weight foreward in the pistol. Fine, because it suits the purpose of the particular pistol and their prefference.

Field stripping is usually more difficult with a FLGR, especially those horrid two piece models.You'll need an allen key, three hands and a paperclip. No, I'm not kidding about the paperclip.

 

[bigmedicine]

I have always thought that if the 1911 was supposed to have one, JMB would have put one in from the get go.

 

[AndyC]

Charging the pistol with one hand is nigh on impossible with a FLGR.

Well, you can use most rear-sights as a push-point against the top of your belt, the welt of the sole of your shoe, etc

 

[sturmgewehr]

Unless you have Novak sights like the vast majority of the 1911's out there have now days. Good luck snagging a Novak on anything.

 

[littlelefty]

mavracer wrote: what kind of conversion?
A used Ceiner.

Are you saying that with the FLGR all I need to do is remove the slide stop and entire assembly comes off? Hmm. I'll give it a try. But I still ike the GI guide rod for simplicity and no tools when stripping it down.

 

[mavracer]

Lefty,
all three of my 1911s that have FLGR (charles daly bull bbl with reverse plug,delta comp gun and delta elite with conventional FLGR set up)will.but my ceiner only works on the 45.

 

[M1 Shooter]

I have always thought that if the 1911 was supposed to have one, JMB would have put one in from the get go.

+1
I agree with that statement 100%. Note that even his later "improved" design the P-35 Hi-Power doesn't even have a full length guide rod. Also take note that some of his earlier designs did use full length guide rods, but then he abandoned them in his later designs because they weren't needed.

Here's a little history lesson on the full length guide rods in 1911's.
The rods came about during the 1970's and '80's for IPSC compensated guns. They were designed to help support the weight of the comp hanging on the end of the barrel. In those guns they did help improve reliability, which is where this idea of them improving reliability came from. However, if you are not running a comp'ed race gun or a bull barreled gun, they are completely un-neccessary, and they needlessly complicate the field stripping procedure.

 

[10-Ring]

My Gov't model has a FLGR and my commander has the std length and as far as performance goes, they're equals....
IMO it's all personal preference

 

[Double Naught Spy]

You know, I never found FLGRs to actually make takedown difficult. It adds a couple of steps, but they are not difficult steps.

As noted above, I like the extra muzzle weight afforded by the FLGR. It does not improve accuracy or reliability. I have not seen that it causes any deterioration in accuracy or reliability either.

I have always thought that if the 1911 was supposed to have one, JMB would have put one in from the get go.

Yes, well JMB apparently didn't think people much over 40 should shoot his 1911s because he put sights on the 1911 that folks with presbyopia can't see.

The notion that the 1911 is JMB's masterpiece is bogus as it was his bastard child with the military who made 40+ changes to the design of the gun. There were not changes JMB "intended" on the gun, but design requirements established by his client (the military) as deemed necessary by his client for his client's needs.

If you follow the JMB notion that everything he did was good and right, then realize that JMB intended for only corrosive RNL ball ammo to be shot out of the 1911 and that the shooter be punished each time he pulled the trigger as the hammer attempted to remove another chunk of skin from the webbing between the thumb and index finger (hammer bite). If JMB didn't think the shooter should bleed, then he would have put the bobbed hammer and/or beavertail grip safety to go on the gun, but he didn't.

 

[lev83]

I have consider this option on more than one occassion. However, I have yet to see any proof that the FLGR does in fact improve accuracy. On the negative side they often require an allen wrench to field strip your gun and if you choose a piece model you have to worry about them becoming loose or coming part altogether while shooting. However if I were to purchase a gun that had this set up I doubt I would change it unless I were to use it for self defense/carry.