Garand- safe service load

[Catpop]

I apologize because I know this has been covered umpteen times before.
I want to load up some Garand foder (30-06) for my family to shoot at the range
I’ve loaded up 2 so far to get my dies and press ready to go.
47.0 grains H4895
150 gr FMJBT c cannature
CCI LRP
OAL 3.330
Questions:
1. I do not have any hard primers to prevent slam fire and probably won’t be able to buy any. If I could get hard primers should they be #41?
2. Did the original WW2 bullet have a flat base or a boat tail? Loading to 3.330, I notice the boat tail bullets I now have do not have a lot of grip area due to the boat tail reduction in diameter. The cannalure is forward of the case neck. I am not crimping. Is this normal?
3. Any other powders recommend for the Garand? I presently only have 1 1/2 pounds of H4895.
4. Anything I’ve missed? Or any helpful advice?
Many thanks for any first hand experience you can offer.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

1. The 30-06 uses a large rifle primer so it wouldn't be the CCI#41 primer, it would be the CCI#34 primer.
2. The OAL I use for the M1 ammo is 3.240". Be sure the ammo you build will fit in the enbloc clips. I put a light crimp on my M1 ammo.
3. I use H4895 but the original powder was IMR 4895, they are very close. You can also use IMR4064, AA2520 or AA2495 which are all very similar in burn rate.
4. Just be sure not to use a powder that is too slow so the pressure curve is still building when at the end of the barrel. You don't want to bend the Op-Rod because they are very expensive now.

I hope this helps a bit.

 

[Laphroaig]

I'm slightly late to the party but this is what I was going to say:

Answers:

1. Seat the primer a little below flush, and don't use Federals and you'll be OK.
2. M2 ball were flat base.
3. Many will work. Of course IMR 4895, IMR 4064, Varget will work. I'm not up on Accurate #'s but anything in that range of burn rates should be good. Alliant claims Rl15 works.

 

[Charlie98]

I've been loading 47grn IMR4895 under a 150'ish FMJ for years... it's a nice, mid-range load that takes a lot of guesswork out of your handloads, meaning, seating depth isn't that big of a deal and won't spike pressures dangerously. As was mentioned, H4895 and IMR4895 are similar, but not exact; having said that, I've swapped in H for IMR before, reducing 1grn for the H substitution and working back up... but, again, I don't think you will have any issues.

Although I've tried alternates, no other powder has worked as well as IMR or H4895 (and it's equivalents.) I've worked with H335 and IMR3031, which are faster, and IMR4064 and TAC, which are slower... and while they work, they did not perform as well as the 4895's with the 150's in the Garand. Moving to 168's... yes, I go to IMR4064, but that's a different subject.

Biggest thing on the M1 Garand is to make sure your primers are seated slightly below the case head. Flush is OK, if that's all you can do, but slightly recessed is best. Although I use #34's, I would be confident using any LR primer in my handloads.

What exact bullet are you using? Reason I axe, there are some very nice Hornady 150grn FMJ/BT bullets running around out there with a very high cannelure... intended, I believe, for the Garand... there is no other reason for that cannelure to be so high. FWIW, I seat any 150grn bullet at 3.2x" so I get good neck tension. Looking at my notes, the last run (450rds...) I seated the Hornady bullet at 3.185".

 

[Ifishsum]

I use a primer pocket depth uniformer on all of the cases I plan to load for the M1. With that the primers always seat to a depth I am pretty comfortable with, using any CCI LR primer.

 

[W.E.G.]

47.0 grains of any of these powders with a 150-grain bullet will be fine in the Garand.

TAC through BL-C(2) probably will be best.

108) IMR-3031
109) Vihtavuori N133
110) Norma N-201
111) Scot Brig 322
112) Hodgdon Benchmark
113) Hodgdon H-335
114) Ramshot X-Terminator
115) Accurate 2230
116) Accurate 2460s
117) IMR-8208 XBR
118) Ramshot TAC
119) Hodgdon H-4895
120) Vihtavuori N530
121) IMR-4895
122) Scot Brig 4065
123) Vihtavuori N135
124) Alliant Reloder 12
125) Alliant Varmint
125) Accurate 2495
126) Vectan 5000
127) IMR-4064
128) Norma N-202
129) Accurate 4064
130) Alliant AR-Comp
131) Accurate 2520
132) Alliant Reloder 15
133) Norma N-203
134) Vihtavuori N140
135) Hodgdon Varget
136) IMR-4320
137) Winchester 748
138) Hodgdon BL-C(2)
139) Alliant Reloder 16
140) Hodgdon CFE 223
141) Hodgdon LEVERevolution
142) Hodgdon H-380
143) Alliant Power Pro 2000 MR
144) IMR-4007 SSC
145) Ramshot Big Game
146) Vihtavuori N540
147) Winchester 760
148) Hodgdon H-414
149) Scot Brig 4351
150) Vihtavuori N150
151) Accurate 2700

 

[thump_rrr]

My load is 46.5 of IMR 4064 with a CCI #34 primer in Winchester cases under a 168gr SMK.
COAL is 3.300" and CBTO is 2.722".
This is with a Criterion barrel with a chamber cut to minimum dimensions.

 

[Catpop]

In doing some more internet digging I find where the original M2 ball specs were coal 3.340. Surprising as max is now stated at 3.330
And, as previously mentioned, the original bullet was flat base. The original gr was 152.

 

[mdi]

I've only been reloading for my Garand for 15 or so years, shooting about 2,500 handloads and a bunch of HXP and WW surplus. I use standard large rifle primers and have never had a "slam fire".

I have used Master Po's and Hornady's M1 Garand data with a lot of Hornaday 155 A-Max (OAL3.240") and have had excellent results...

I rarely use any forum data but there's a lot of excellent Garand and military arms loading info here; http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=94

 

[GooseGestapo]

Further advice.......

ALWAYS! feed the rifle with a clip or single shot loading device.
This slows down the bolt speed preventing a slam fire.
Otherwise use a 2,5, or 8-shot clip.

 

[GooseGestapo]

SAAMI maximum for.30/06 is 3.340”. Has been for the 50+ years I’ve been loading it.
I use a 3.330” max for FMJ in M1.
I load the Hornady FMJ 150’s to 3.240” w/o crimp.
PPU makes the only M2 copy bullet.
Best M1 bullet available right now IMO is the Speer 168gr BTHP MATCH
$23.20/100 from MidwayUSA at present. They are half again more accurate than the bulk Hornady
and only 2-3cents more expensive.

 

[Random 8]

I think your present load should make for happy shooting. I'm presently shooting the H150fmjbt over 47 of IMR 4064. Don't know my COL, it's seated to cannelure sans crimp in HXP mil brass with a SB LR primer seated a full. 010+ below flush. I use this load for all things 30-06 substituting a 150 SP for field use in my camp rifle. Makes for mild shooting at 300 Savage recoil and performance, doing good work on deer and steel at short to medium ranges.

That last part is more important than hard primers IMHO. I use a ram prime system religiously for M1 and AR loads. No by feel priming for me.

If you wanted to use the most authentic bullet, PRVI makes an M2 fmj FB that is very close in profile to 1960s M2 projectiles I've compared to. Grafs.com has had them in stock lately. That said, personally I am well served by the Hornady and feel no need to change.

 

[anothernewb]

This is great timing for me. I was recently gifted about 100 30-06 military cases, with half a dozen clips, and I have managed to collect a number of hornady and R-P cases for it as well. With powders so scarce I have been able to pick up 8# of W748 and 4064. Scheels recently had hornady 150 FMJ on sale for $16/100 so 1000 of those came home with me as well. have a decent store of CCI military large rifle primers as well.

Was just starting to look up garand safe loads for those combinations. Kicking myself for not buying that jug of 2520 they had in the store when I got the bullets too.

 

[Charlie98]

Was just starting to look up garand safe loads for those combinations.

Here's the thing about Garand loads...

Yes, it's a .30-06 rifle at the end of the day... you can handload for it using standard .30-06 data if that's your gig, but I don't recommend it. Unless you are lining up at Camp Perry and shooting 600yds or more, the Garand (...and you...) don't need the abuse of full-house loads. I have looked at the NRA suggested load data, and the Hodgdon data... and I wouldn't go anywhere near that, honestly... I have no reason to. The debate rages about how far you can go with the Garand before you start breaking things... that's a moot argument with me because I don't need to find out.

47grn IMR4895 and any 145-150grn jacketed bullet gives me 2700fps'ish out of my 1942 Springfield Garand... that's plenty for the old girl; it's an accurate, reliable load that makes shooting the M1 fun... which it should be.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Here's the thing about Garand loads...

Yes, it's a .30-06 rifle at the end of the day... you can handload for it using standard .30-06 data if that's your gig, but I don't recommend it. Unless you are lining up at Camp Perry and shooting 600yds or more, the Garand (...and you...) don't need the abuse of full-house loads. I have looked at the NRA suggested load data, and the Hodgdon data... and I wouldn't go anywhere near that, honestly... I have no reason to. The debate rages about how far you can go with the Garand before you start breaking things... that's a moot argument with me because I don't need to find out.

47grn IMR4895 and any 145-150grn jacketed bullet gives me 2700fps'ish out of my 1942 Springfield Garand... that's plenty for the old girl; it's an accurate, reliable load that makes shooting the M1 fun... which it should be.

I agree. My outlook has always been, it's NOT a .30-06 Spg rifle, it's a .30M2 rifle. If I'm not shooting surplus M2 Ball (I've still got two .30cal cans filled with Korean War surplus on clips), my goto is the 168gr. SMK/BTHP and 46.7gr. of IMR 4895 with a No.34 primer. I know it's not "the right bullet" for M2 Ball, and any LPP will work just as well, but that combo has always just worked in all of my Garands. I avoid higher-than-necessary loads in the Garand.
Now, let's all remember Rule #1: Don't do what I do. It works for me but probably won't work for you.

 

[mdi]

I would think every Garand reloader knows, or should know to not use "standard" 30-06 load data. The higher gas volume and pressure can damage the operating system. I keep my 150-155 gr loads to around 2,700 fps...

 

[Jeremy2171]

I would think every Garand reloader knows, or should know to not use "standard" 30-06 load data. The higher gas volume and pressure can damage the operating system. I keep my 150-155 gr loads to around 2,700 fps...

Note really true at all....

just use powders from IMR3013 to Varget/H380 and you can use any bullet weight for those powders you have data for.

I load my ammo to milspec and so no real reason to change.

Here is a secret... Any 168/175 match bullet and 48.0 Varget and a WLR will pretty much duplicate M72 Match or M1 ball and be way more accurate than any "M2 ball load".

 

[mdi]

I was taking about velocity/pressure/gas volume. My 2,700 fps loads fit a these and do not damage Op Rods...

 

[Jeremy2171]

I was taking about velocity/pressure/gas volume. My 2,7000 fps loads fit a these and do not damage Op Rods...

I was talking about the same thing. Pretty much no commercial ammo will damage the oprod... nor will handloads.

Velocity isn't an indicator of danger either...you can safely shoot 150s at 3000fps with no issues.

The biggest danger to oprods is lack of lubrication.

 

[Thomasss]

Jim Thompson in his book "The Complete M1 Garand" did extensive testing on what the rifle can handle. AND 2,700 fps is max for a 150 grain bullet. He also suggests specific load data for different powders in both 30.06 and.308. The load for H4895 is 46.0 grains.
I personally found one should NOT use Federal or Remington LRP in those cartridges. I've already had to replace the follower in my gun, loading an EN Bloc because of an out of battery problem.

 

[Jeremy2171]

Jim Thompson in his book "The Complete M1 Garand" did extensive testing on what the rifle can handle. AND 2,700 fps is max for a 150 grain bullet. He also suggests specific load data for different powders in both 30.06 and.308. The load for H4895 is 46.0 grains.
I personally found one should NOT use Federal or Remington LRP in those cartridges. I've already had to replace the follower in my gun, loading an EN Bloc because of an out of battery problem.

I'm going to say you read that wrong...since 2700fps is below what the gov't called for milspec velocity in just about every 30-06 loading from M1 ball to AP etc.

Jim Thompson is also the one who said slow powders aren't an issue..proper lubrication is. I know this because I've talked to him on this specific topic.

But regardless...2700fps is NOT the max for 150s in any way shape or form. It's actually rather slow.

 

[mdi]

I don't know your source, but every text or M1 Garand manual I have read warns against higher gas volume/pressure. Op rod damage is common using factory "hunting loads". The 2,700 fps is not a hard and fast rule, rather an indication that the gas volume/pressure may be getting too high. I have used 147 gr.,150/155 gr. and 168 gr bullets mostly with IMR 4064 IMR 4895 with a little W748 and H335. Keeping with my "2,700 fps max." my Garand is as good as the day I got it...

 

[Jeremy2171]

I don't know your source, but every text or M1 Garand manual I have read warns against higher gas volume/pressure. Op rod damage is common using factory "hunting loads". The 2,700 fps is not a hard and fast rule, rather an indication that the gas volume/pressure may be getting too high. I have used 147 gr.,150/155 gr. and 168 gr bullets mostly with IMR 4064 IMR 4895 with a little W748 and H335. Keeping with my "2,700 fps max." my Garand is as good as the day I got it...

My source is several different period documents plus seeing and doing actual testing myself. Milsurp ammo is way over 2700fps. Just because you choose to load light doesn't mean anything for the rest of us. My loads are all milspec-ish and rifles are all as good as the day I got them..some 30 plus years ago.

Oprod damage doesn't come from "hunting loads" since they operate at similar pressure as milsurp loads. If you have manuals that say as you get near 2700fps the pressure may be getting high I'd question the validity of those manuals.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

My source is several different period documents plus seeing and doing actual testing myself. Milsurp ammo is way over 2700fps. Just because you choose to load light doesn't mean anything for the rest of us. My loads are all milspec-ish and rifles are all as good as the day I got them..some 30 plus years ago.

Oprod damage doesn't come from "hunting loads" since they operate at similar pressure as milsurp loads. If you have manuals that say as you get near 2700fps the pressure may be getting high I'd question the validity of those manuals.

Actually, the OP states:

I want to load up some Garand foder (30-06) for my family to shoot at the range

This implies light target loads are what he's after, not peddle-to-the-metal full combat infantry loads. He isn't meeting Jerry at Remagen to contest possession of the Ludendorff Bridge, he's taking family to the target range to punch holes in paper.

Maybe the OP can clarify: are you looking for paper-punching, short-range, light loads or full combat, max-velocity loads to replicate WW-2 M2 Ball?

 

[Jeremy2171]

Actually, the OP states:

This implies light target loads are what he's after, not peddle-to-the-metal full combat infantry loads. He isn't meeting Jerry at Remagen to contest possession of the Ludendorff Bridge, he's taking family to the target range to punch holes in paper.

Maybe the OP can clarify: are you looking for paper-punching, short-range, light loads or full combat, max-velocity loads to replicate WW-2 M2 Ball?

My comment was in reply to the poster who said 2700fps is the limit...it's not. And that commercial ammo is dangerous..it's not.