Getting "long" on the gun

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Trampstamp

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This seems to be AR people more than anything, what's all this nonsense about getting your support hand as far away from the receiver as possible? Obviously you want it a little bit out to get a balance on the gun. But these silly youtubers have their support hand completely straight out. Why?
 
P.s. why are they rotating the arm to where the thumb is over the barrel and almost in the sight picture? It all seems quite silly. But surely there is a reason? Is it like turning a handgun 90 degrees ?
 
Everybody knows your support hand goes up against the sling swivel with the sling wrapped around your arm! :neener::rofl:

I say that in jest, but most of the guys I know that shot that way are either too old to shoot anymore or have gone on to the happy hunting grounds. The idea of holding the rifle in the way that you describe strikes me as silly, but then again what do I know? I'm just glad I'm not the only one who's noticed it!

Mac
 
Trampstamp said:
what's all this nonsense about getting your support hand as far away from the receiver as possible?

But these silly youtubers have their support hand completely straight out. Why?
Click to expand...
Likely for match shooting to quickly engage multiple targets by better controlling the muzzle as demonstrated by Jerry Miculek below at 5:20 minute as he says, "It's a driving game with your left (support) hand":



When I run fast point shooting defensive drills on multiple targets, I wrap my hand around the handguard with thumb extended so I can "point" with my thumb which extends the support hand almost straight out and Jerry demonstrates at 12:20 minute:



And also demonstrated by US Army AMU at start of video engaging multiple targets and grip covered in detail starting at 1:30 minute:



But when I want to stabilize the front sight of my AR for longer range/precision shots, I bring my support hand on the handguard closer to the receiver so as to rest elbow against the ribcage and this stabilizes front sight/crosshairs of the scope.
 
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Mauser lover said:
Torque equals force times the length of the arm. You can control the muzzle better if you are closer to it.

You put your thumb on top because that’s where the muzzle wants to go when firing. You are controlling muzzle climb.
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Fight me. Hold your arm out there. See what happens. Now, hold it in with the elbow bent. I can't manhandle you that way.

you are giving the gun leverage over your shoulder and torso.
 
LiveLife said:
Likely for match shooting to quickly engage multiple targets by better controlling the muzzle as demonstrated by Jerry Miculek below at 5:20 minute:



When I run fast point shooting defensive drills on multiple targets, I wrap my hand around the handguard with thumb extended so I can "point" with my thumb which extends the support hand almost straight out and Jerry demonstrates at 12:20 minute:



And also demonstrated by US Army AMU engaging multiple targets and grip covered in detail starting at 1:30 minute:



But when I want to stabilize the front sight of my AR for longer range/precision shots, I bring my support hand on the handguard closer to the receiver so as to rest elbow against the ribcage and this stabilizes front sight/crosshairs of the scope.
Click to expand...

I see. It's a ninja thing. Makes sense now, thanks.


Edit: that sounded rude. Really it's just my tism. I mean that it's for a different style of shooting. I tend to shoot longer ranges with anything long barreled so the benefit of switching target to target in close just never occurred to me.
 
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Trampstamp said:
I see. It's a ninja thing.
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To me, it's an expansion of "Zen" of shooting with pistol where you look past the front sight to focus on match target to produce holes at will, anywhere on target, very fast ... And attain mastery of being able to call shots and shoot smiley faces and letters, A, B, C, etc - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...or-her-first-time-today.908729/#post-12369077

The "Zen" of shooting applied to carbine/rifle, is easier with thumb pointing on handguard but is similar in principle.
 
LiveLife said:
I would not consider Jerry Miculek or US Army AMU "silly" in general regarding shooting.

Does Jerry do "silly" things ... Sure. :D (Jump to 4:00 minute)

Click to expand...

Jerry isn't doing the youtuber thing, yes he's got a long grip, he's even C clamping. However, I'm talking about an elbow COMPLETELY STRAIGHT with the thumb WELL over the barrel, monkey gripping around the handguard
 
I've seen the goobers on "classic firearms" do it on occasion and I couldn't tell if it was a joke tbh
 
Here

About 10:00. That thumb is not pointing anywhere and that arm is supporting nothing

Thumbnail related
 
Trampstamp said:
This seems to be AR people more than anything, what's all this nonsense about getting your support hand as far away from the receiver as possible? Obviously you want it a little bit out to get a balance on the gun. But these silly youtubers have their support hand completely straight out. Why?
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Please don't look at my avatar ;)

Been doing it that way for over 10 years but I guess I'm a silly youtuber :p
 


This is hilarious to me because the thumb is doing what? Gorillas know how to use the opposable thumb but the humans not so much.
 



:52 hahahahahaaaaaa oh wow this is something. Is this guy actually pretending that there is recoil pushing him/the gun around? There's no way that much recoil is coming out of an AR
 
Trampstamp said:
Hey whatever works for you I'm just wondering what makes ppl do that?
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Some of the pictures and videos that were posted are not good examples of how I do it.

I started doing it after watching a Magpul training video with Chris Costa and Travis Haley, tried it, and really like it.

It isn't simply about putting your hand out there. I shoot my pistol in an isoceles stance, thumbs forward, and my AR stance is very similar. The thumb is pointed forward but at the same time, my wrist and elbow are locked forward and I put some backward force against my shoulder.

Think of it like making a triangle with the support arm being side 1, body being side 2, and the AR is side 3. I can control muzzle rise and transition between targets much quicker.

Give it a try, you may like it :cool:
 
Off hand, use your "pointy" finger to point at something with elbow bent, and with it straight.

Now, use your thumb on the off hand; feel your wrist and elbow "lock"?

Same with handgun 2 hand hold; use your off hand thumb to point at "target".
 
hold it in with the elbow bent.
Click to expand...

For more accurate shooting keeping the off hand close to the magazine with the elbow tight against the rib cage offers a little more stability. Almost like using a shooting sling, but without the sling. I've seen that method taught and used, granted that was 40 years ago.

Disclaimer, I have no formal training in using an AR like this, but I have had some coaching for using a shotgun on clays. I'm far from an expert at that either. But the principle seems similar when trying to hit moving, or multiple targets.

For wingshooting or clays the off hand should be positioned farther away than normal. Your feet should be firmly planted with a wide base and the knees bent slightly The position of the gun in relation to your eye and shoulder remains the same. All movement is from your waist. Your entire upper and lower body and head is locked into the same rigid position, and you only move at the waist to point the muzzle up, down, left or right.

It appears to me that a variation of this method is being used for getting off shots at moving or multiple targets. If it works for shotgun shooters, I don't see why it wouldn't work for fast shooting an AR.
 
Fwiw I shoot with a 2 point sling, firm grip on right hand pulling the gun into the shoulder. Support hand just taking up sling slack. Head, arms, gun all one unit. Move the waist. It's like a modified iso stance.
 
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