Getting tax stamp for short barrel smooth bore pistol

[michaelbsc]

I have a question about an antique smooth bore pistol.

My dad recently passed away, and going through his things I've run across my grandfather's 410 single shot pistol from the '20s.

Clearly this isn't considered a legal gun today, and it's essentially a wall hanger. I would really be afraid to try using it for anything. Modern ammo is likely to split the barrel.

But what do I do with it? Can I just keep it as is as a C&R item? Should I apply for a tax stamp for it? I know my grandfather probably never knew/cared it was regulated. Dad obviously knew, since it's clearly been squirreled away in back of his closet for 50 years.

Or should I pitch it into the river and deny that I found it if anyone ever asks about it?

I'd prefer not to destroy a family heirloom, but I'm not going to prison over it.

 

[bshepherd]

Check the C&R list, some of these types of firearms have been removed fron the NFA, so it may be legal. Some are listed by specific serial number. If you can determine maker etc you might be able to find out. If it is similar to others listed by serial number you may be able to petition to get it removed from the NFA, but not sure if the BATF still does that.

Good Luck.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

If you have innocently acquired a questionable NFA item, it is always best you contact the ATF rather than they catch you with contraband.

A letter to the ATF Firearms Technology Branch inquiring as to the legal status of a firearm is sometimes a good idea, but check the Curio & Relic list first.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-11/atf-p-5300-11.pdf

This is a PDF of the Curio & Relic List, which includes some guns previously NFA that are now considered to be legally the same as regular pistols, shotguns or rifles by ATF because they are more likely to be owned as collectibles than as weapons. Other NFA items are still NFA but if on the C&R list they are exempt from some local bans that overlap the NFA. (TN like most jurisdictions leaves NFA up to the Feds, but a small number of jurisdictions only allow C&R NFA items registered with ATF.)


http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/1999/09/090599-openletter-nfa-estate-transfers.html

Department of the Treasury

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms

Washington, DC 20226

September 5, 1999

Transfers of National Firearms Act Firearms in Decedents’ Estates

The National Firearms Act (NFA) Branch continually responds to questions regarding NFA firearms in decedent’s estates. We often find that Federal firearms licensees are involved in assisting the executors in disposing of these firearms. We believe some general information and discussion of procedures will help licensees in these situations.

As you may be aware, the registration information we maintain is tax information and any disclosure of this information is generally prohibited. We may lawfully provide registration information to the executor of an estate. If there is any question regarding the registration status of the firearms in the estate for which you are assisting the executor, advise the executor to contact the NFA Branch directly and provide proof of his or her appointment as executor.

If there are unregistered NFA firearms in the estate, these firearms are contraband and cannot be registered by the estate. The executor of the estate should contact the local ATF office to arrange for the abandonment of the unregistered firearms.

For registered NFA firearms in the estate, the executor should take action as soon as possible to arrange for the proper registration of the firearms. Possession of an NFA firearm not registered to the possessor is a violation of Federal law and the firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture. However, we do allow the executor a reasonable time to arrange for the transfer of the registered firearms in a decedent’s estate. This generally should be done before probate is closed.

It is the responsibility of the executor of the estate to maintain custody and control of the firearms and to transfer the firearms registered to the decedent. The firearms may not be transferred to another party, such as a firearms licensee, for consignment or safekeeping. This would be a transfer subject to the requirements of the NFA. The licensee may assist the executor by identifying purchasers and acting as a broker.

The firearms may be transferred on a tax-exempt basis to a lawful heir. The executor would apply on ATF Form 5, Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, for a tax-exempt transfer to a lawful heir. A lawful heir is anyone named in the decedent’s will or, in the absence of a will, anyone entitled to inherit under the laws of the State in which the decedent last resided. NFA firearms may be transferred directly interstate to a beneficiary of the estate. When a firearm is being transferred to an individual heir, his or her fingerprints on FBI Forms FD-258 must accompany the transfer application. However, if any Federal, State or local law prohibits the heir from receiving or possessing the firearm, ATF will not approve the application.

ATF Form 4 is used to apply for the taxpaid transfer of a serviceable NFA firearm to a person outside the estate (not a beneficiary). ATF Form 5 is also used to apply for the tax-exempt transfer of an unserviceable NFA firearm to a person outside the estate. As noted above, all requirements, such as fingerprint cards for transfers to individuals and compliance with State or local law, must be met before an application may be approved. If an NFA firearm in the estate was imported for use as a “sales sample,” this restriction on the firearm’s possession remains. The NFA firearm may only be transferred to a Federal firearms licensee who has paid the special (occupational) tax to deal in NFA firearms or to a government agency.

For further information, contact:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives
National Firearms Act Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia25405USA
Voice: (304) 616-4500
Fax: (304) 616-4501

Revised: February 23, 2006

 

[Sam1911]

We have a Sticky on this exact question in the NFA section:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=570018

You absolutely should check into exempt C&R list and (if not there) inquire as to prior registration, but if those do not pan out:

If there are unregistered NFA firearms in the estate, these firearms are contraband and cannot be registered by the estate. The executor of the estate should contact the local ATF office to arrange for the abandonment of the unregistered firearms.

Your grand dad's legacy to you should not be 10 years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine.

 

[Iramo94]

Hypothetical question: Since the manufacture of non-NFA guns is legal for personal use, can OP buy a stock and long barrel, make it a legal length, then register it and put the original stuff back on?
That seems like the best route if it is not already registered or exempt.

 

[Sam1911]

The problem with that is, IF it is an unregistered Title II firearm, then it is contraband, period. That status can't be changed by any process you could do to it (arguably short of destroying/demilling it).

Ironically, if you had a registered short barreled shotgun, you absolutely can convert it to a standard "GCA" shotgun by swapping parts. You can sell it, take it across state lines, do whatever you normally would do with a normal shotgun.

"The following questions are related to an SBR or SBS which has had the barrel removed and is no longer subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations:"

Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm?Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA “firearm” is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn’t comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.

Now, keeping possession of the short barrel would mean you were still technically in possession of the NFA firearm.

But there is an interesting conflict there. You apparently cannot be convicted of possession of an unregistered NFA firearm if the gun in question does not meet the definition of that weapon. But the ATF does not consider altering such a weapon to legal configuration to be one of their approved solutions to the "so I've got this unregistered NFA weapon" problem: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#unregistered-possession

They're either going with the idea that the unregistered firearm is evidence of a crime (which it is) and that changing it is destroying evidence of a crime (which, well, it is ... duh) and that's not ok.

Or they're saying that for you to convert a weapon you must possess it for at least the time it takes you to do the conversion and dispose of the parts, and since you cannot legally possess that weapon, there is NOTHING you can do with it that IS lawful.

And probably both.

 

[HankB]

If Grandpa had done the "non-NFA" mods, wouldn't the current owner be OK? He could then do the paperwork, and who knows, maybe he'd find "proper" parts at a gun show or something after he had his tax stamp, and then he'd be able to put it back in original configuration.

 

[Sam1911]

It's hard to imagine how he would not be ok. But it's pretty hard to imagine how this would ever be enforced so long as he did not have the gun in NFA configuration.

 

[Frank Ettin]

But let's not forget that the stakes are up to 10 years in a federal prison and/or a $250,000 fine.

 

[michaelbsc]

But let's not forget that the stakes are up to 10 years in a federal prison and/or a $250,000 fine.

Ok. I see that it's time to hand this to the probate attorney and let him find someone with experience dealing with BATFE. On the laughable idea that my grandfather paid the registration fee maybe he can find the serial number in Washington. I can hear him talking about what Washington can do about minding his business. Or the attorney can turn it in anonymously.

It's not particularly valuable even registered, and certainly not worth $250K and 10 years. And it's listed in part 4 of the PDF on the website. So getting a waiver to register it now from the ATF is also laughable. Especially after the last two knuckleheads in the news.

So sorry Grand Dad. We should have buried it with you way back then. Or with Dad this spring. But who knew. Too late now.