Given the choices, do Cali THR members want Arnold?

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Yes on the Recall to FIRE DAVIS.
Fine to have Arnold for 3 years, he can exercise the hell out of the Veto, and three more years of Dem-led state legislature will make their failures plain for ALL to see.
This time around it's some third of all Democrats in the State willing to fire Davis. Next State Senate and Assembly elections should see a decrease in Dem-eld seats.
Let McClintock come back in 3 years, with a more supportive Leg. and maybe we can get some real decent change in this State.
 
What is wrong with this recall Election is that it is not a
Hydra-headed recall of the key radicals in the CA legislature.
You're right about that! I've recently been trying to figure out what kind of penalty should be applied to those who pass laws which are unconstitutional. Maybe automatic removal from office (including a prohibition on holding any public office in the future) for anyone who votes for or signs an unconstitutional law with automatic jail time for anyone who sponsors such a law. I wonder how cautious legislators would be in making sure their laws were constitutional if they knew they could lose everything and even spend time in jail?
 
Laugh at principles all you want
Just don't whine when Arnold screws us all with an "emergency tax" or another "sensible gun control law".
If you vote for a compromise--you'll get compromised.
 
whatever, bigchoad - have a good time voting for Perot/ I mean Nader/ I mean McClintock. Bustamante the MECHa-man wins, it's YOUR fault.
 
Fair enough and if Kennedy er Wilson er.. Arnold wins and then screws us, then it can be YOUR fault
 
More than Fair. I accept that charge.

How do you feel about Bush43 and the AWB Sunset - do you have similar Doom & Gloom theories about that (too)?
 
Hey rayra, this will be fun!

First of all Bush is doing a fine job on the war on terrorism, though I'd like to see progress on the economy.
re: The AWB I opposed that from the start as a violation of our second amendment rights. Can I assume you support the continuation of the Assault Weapons Ban since you are backing an avowed supporter of it.
And, in case you've forgotten, whether or not the national AWB sunsets is a moot point here in CA. We have our own statewide AWB. Remember SB23? And do you remember the Roos-Roberti AWB that predated the 1994 AWB by 5 years?
Now since Arnold has already stated that he supports the AWB, what do you suppose the chances are of Arnold backing any repeal of SB 23?

As for the national AWB I fervently do hope for, for the sake of my brother and sister gunowners in less oppressed states that is is allowed to sunset.

I'm not a gloom and doomer by any stretch. Actually I'm rather hopeful. For the first time I have found a candidate that I can support without qualifications. Can you say the same for your candidate?
 
The problem with Dems and Repubs shows up clearly in this election.

I vote libertarian for one reason and one reason only: the basic belief less government = more freedom.

Notice I don't bother naming the libertarian candidate? It makes no difference, anybody who's a libertarian believes that, and so I could care less what name is on the ballot.

Contrast that with voting for a personality in the Dems and the Repubs. They are all over the road map. "Hard conservative.. soft liberal.. Left winged. Right winged. Ultra left winged.. etc.." You'd think you were talking about building a plane with all those wings!

Vote libertarian..

Vote your principles and who you believe in. If more people did that, instead of trying to mitigate their losses, the right person WOULD win..
 
The thing people don't understand about California is it is not a logical or rational state. The people here are for the most part stupid. Look no further than the last election. Gray Davis, with horrible ratings and support, still won the election!!! Why do people think that even with a strong McClintock and no Arnold that he would have a chance? This state is liberal. If it came down to McClintock, Bustermante, or Davis, who do you think all of the liberals and the middle votes are going to go to? With that being said, Arnold is in the race. He is a moderate, which like it or not, wins elections. You don't win an election by solidifying your party, you win it by getting as much as your party together and then getting the voters in the middle. McClintock doesn't have the middle appeal that Arnold has.

I decided this morning that I am voting for Arnold. Why? I am voting my conscience. If I vote for McClintock, who in no way is going to pull enough in the middle and left votes to win, my vote goes to the spoiler that takes a vote away from the most likely choice. There is a reason all of the liberals want us to vote for McClintock. A vote for McClintock is effectively a vote for Bustermante. Sorry if I don't subscribe to the all or nothing campaign. We have been going all or nothing in this state for too long. We have nothing. Sure you are going to argue it is because no one votes their principle or whatever. Sorry this is a liberal state. It isn't a conservative state. A hopeless Davis won the last election! What makes you think another good conservative like McClintock, even with a good reputation and a much better campaign is going to be able to get all of those votes when there is a new third liberal choice in Bustermante?

So if I know my vote is going to split the party and result in a Democrat getting elected, how can I call that voting my conscience? If you truly believe you have to vote your principle and vote for McClintock, go for it. I am going to deal with reality and vote for the most likely republican to win, even if he isn't my first choice.

Either way, Davis is leaving tomorrow. I am sure of it. Now who do we realistically want to replace him? Yeah yeah, if everyone voted for their "first choice" McClintock might win. Whatever, there are too many liberals in this state for that to happen. Deal with reality. If Arnold screws us up anymore, it can't be too much worse than what we got now. I say lets give the outsider a shot. Looking at our alternatives, what do we have to lose?
 
Given the folks Arnold has surrounded himself with (Pete Wilson &Warren Buffet to name two) What do you think you'll be electing?
What makes you think Arnold is that much different than Bustamante or Davis?
What has he said that makes you think anything will get better if he is running the state?
As far as I'm concerned a vote for Arnold is a vote for Bustamante and Davis and the status quo.
We conservatives have been losing this state because we have tried to go the middle of the road, not because we have voted our core values.
Look at who the Republicans ran in the last 2 elections
AG Dan Lundgren--no friend to gun owners ran in 1998
and Bill Simon, who ran the most inept campaign ever in 2002
Neither of these were hard core conservatives
Arnold at best is a compromise and conservatives have gotten screwed every time they try compromise. the left sees it correctly as weakness and hammers us every time.
Don't abandon your core values for expediency
Arnold is the spoiler here Arnold is wrecking the chances of getting a true conservative in the governor's office
Don't throw your vote away.
Vote for the best man
Vote for McClintock
 
Neither of these were hard core conservatives
What wasn't hard core conservative about Simon? Oh I forgot, his fundamental belief in the 2nd Amendment, his belief in pro-life, and his hands off business attitude. I forgot that those are the building blocks of liberalism. Maybe the reason bigchoad doesn't think Simon was a hard core conservative is because his campaign sucked and he blew what should have been the easiest election in history. But was Simon completely at fault? How soon people forget the primary election where the very competant campaigner Grey Davis put all of his energy into defeating Riordan, a moderate republican. Who did the Democrats want in the race against Grey? Ah, it was Bill Simon. Why Bill Simon? Because he was way too conservative for California. The same way too conservative for California candidate taht bigchoad says is not a "hard core conservative".

Bigchoad look at reality, this is not a conservative state. It won't be until a bunch of liberal die or move out. We tried electing a "hard core conservative" in the last election. In addition to his horrible campaign, he was still not electible in this liberal state. Now you expect McClintock to suddenly bridge the gap? You think there are enough conservative voters in this state now to split the vote and still come out on top of the liberals who outvoted us by 200,000 votes in the last election?

This fuzzy math boggles my mind. I made the mistake of believing in the people of California last election. I was severely disappointed. No matter how much it made sense to get rid of Grey Davis, there were 200,000 stupid liberals out there that didn't agree. Do you think these liberals suddenly changed their minds and are now passing up the liberal alternate Bustermante, the moderate alternate Schwarzenegger, and voting for the "hard core conservative" McClintock? Am I the only one who sees this theory that Bigchoad and many others are supporting as being completely void of any foundation in the realities of California politics? MCCLINTOCK DOESN'T STAND A CHANCE! Just like Simon didn't stand a chance. They are good people in a horrible state. Davis wanted Riordan out in the last primary just likes he wants Schwarzenegger out in this election. How does he do that? He splits the Republicans by appealling the most likely contender as "too liberal" and not a "true republican". Of course the good conservatives of this state agree and they vote their "principles". And what happens? The same thing all over again. A "hard core conservative" loses because this state is liberal!!! Wake up people. Look where we live. We are not in a good conservative state!!! We are in enemy territory. Learn from our mistakes in the past.

The only chance we have to get any ground in this state is to get moderates to vote for a republican candidate. If you truly believe these crucial moderates and liberal converts are suddenly going to go far right and skip Bustamante and Schwarzenegger and vote for someone that shares nearly none of their social views, you are sorely misled and/or deluded. Schwarzenegger has the moderate appeal to get the conservative vote and the crucial middle of the road vote. McClintock does not. I don't see how it can get much clearer.

As far as Schwarzenegger's policies go, he is advocating the repeal of the car tax and he is not running on a platform for new taxes against the rich and alcohol and tobacco (Bustamante is). Who is more likely to decide that Californian gun owners ought to start paying a 5 cent bullet tax to pay for gun shot victim's hospital bills? A man who says that we need less govedrnment and wants to repeal the car tax or the man who wants to raise taxes and continue to spend that money on illegal aliens? To say there is no difference between Schwarzenegger and Bustamante is completely insane and devoid of any factual basis. We have a chance with Arnold. True he is not the ideal "hard core conservative", but we have seen Grey Davis' voting record in the last month. We know what Bustermante wants to do. When Arnold says he wants to cut out big government, why wouldn't you want to go with that? Why would you say you support going for the guy that has no chance because you don't see a difference in those three candidates? There is no factual support for such a claim. Schwarzenegger is the best choice if you are tired of politics as usual in California. McClintock is the "ideal" choice, but he has no chance of winning here. If enough of us accept this fact and vote for Schwarzenegger today (it is now 1209, October 7), we have a good chance of telling the politicians that we will not accept the status quo.

Californians, if you haven't voted already, make the right decision today. Vote with reality. Schwarzenegger is better than Cruz or Grey. Don't fool yourself to think otherwise. Look at the past, a "hard core conservative" candidate has not taken this state in the last several years, not in the last election, and he will not take it this election. A moderate conservative can. Arnold Schwarzenegger is that moderate conservative. Don't throw away your vote on October 7th.
 
Davis only beat Simon 47% to 42%, despite a poorly run campaign, allegations of fraud against him just before the election (which I believe were proven false, after the election), little support from the Repugnican party (one visit by Bush with a tepid endorsement). On Bush's next visit to Ca., he steered clear of Simon.
I believe a conservative could win California, if most of the starstruck Arnold supporters would just realize he is not a moderate Republican, but a moderate Liberal, and McClintock is a h311 of alot better man than either Simon, or Schwarzenwhatever (Davis Lite).
 
I decided this morning that I am voting for Arnold. Why? I am voting my conscience.
Then you're getting what you deserve out of this election, as is everyone else who looks at Arnold and sees a mirror of their conscience. :(

(I lived in Thousand Oaks for more than a dozen years. Thank God I left -- would you believe that even Florida is better than Southern California?!?!?!?!?!)

As long as the focus is on "who can realistically win this," then you'll never elect a good candidate. Throw Stalin, Hitler, and Thomas Jefferson together in an election and the media will produce polling numbers that show that only Stalin and Hitler are "viable." Which do you vote for? After all, you wouldn't want your vote "thrown away." And as bad as Hitler is, you know in your heart that a vote for Jefferson is really a vote for Stalin. Right?

(If I sound bitter it's because I spent a few years fighting in the trenches of local politics in Thousand Oaks and Ventura County. Death threats against my sister, harrassment from the sheriff, phones tapped, recall petitions not certified by the county for months until the time limit had coincidentally run out, bankrupt politicians getting elected then owning 3 houses and a plane by the next election (all outside the county so they didn't have to be reported), developers paying for daily limo services for county supervisors, the editor of the LA Times hanging out with the local political elites and voting as you'd guess, attempted break-ins and vandalism to our cars, ... I used to think that if we could just get good people to run and endure the endless amounts of crap an honest politician needs to put up with to try and bring the system down it would be enough. Now I'm coming to believe it's the people's fault -- when given a solid choice they won't vote in their own best interest. You do know that if Arnold dropped out McClintock has enough votes to get into office, right? I'm guessing you don't care, as long as the Liberal In Charge has a (R) after his name. :( :( :( )
 
Well, I hit the polls on my way to work here in San Diego. I had planned on voting Arnold to "send a message" to Sacremento (as John & Ken put it) despite believing McClintock to be the better man.

But you know...I just couldn't do it. McClintock got my ballot and I've decided that in the future I'll vote for whomever I think will do the best job. To do otherwise cripples Democracy. When you think about it, before the invention of highly accurate polls, no one could *really* know what was going to go down on election day. People really DID vote for the best man.

I think we need to get back to that somehow.
 
Polls show that if it wasn't for Ahnold, McClintock would be crushing both Grey-Out and Bustamexican.

There's a spoiler in this election all right...but it ain't McClintock. Ahnold has money and fame, now he's looking for power and CA is about to bend over and give it to him.

- Gabe
 
I was just checking out the Fox news site. They're saying that an estimated 5 to 6 percent of the vote going to Arnold is people who would rather vote for McClintock.

:banghead:

If McC loses by less than that margin, there will be some VERY bothered people! :cuss:
 
Why doesn't that ballot also have Spanish, Farsi, Hindi, and a dozen other languages on it besides Chinese and (horror of horrors) English? :rolleyes:

I'm suing. The election is unfair. ;)
 
I am right in line with what El Rojo is saying. I'll even take it one step farther. McClintock would only be able to lead half of the state(my half). The other half would hate his guts.

I'm trying to think of the populace of California as my children and I am hiring a governess for them. Most of my kids are kind of spacy daydreamers who need a little room and flexibility to operate. Now do I really want the strict taskmaster of McClintock to hammer them into shape, even though they do need some discipline? I don't think that would be the best approach to these kids. They need a leader that they will follow that shows them how to lead a more disciplined life but enjoying it along the way. That guy is Arnold.

Davis and Bustamonte would be smoking weed with them out in the garage and encouraging putting off potty training for a couple more years.

Arnold is the guy.
 
El Rojo is right that I misjudged Bill Simon's conservative credentials
But, Rojo, I must have missed Bill Simons's pro second amendment speech, (though I do seem to recall a high NRA rating) However, as you said, he lost . What I missed in your commentary, though, was how close he came despite his totally inept campaign. What I'm hoping for is the conservatives, the same ones who have sat out elections in the past because campaigns and candidates like Simon were the best the Republicans could offer, might come out and vote. We shall see if that works out or not.

Bigchoad look at reality, this is not a conservative state. It won't be until a bunch of liberal die or move out.

Or until conservatives stop appeasing the liberals, stop compromising and stop worrying about "who can win" as opposed to who is the best man.

Arnold knows nothing about economics
Arnold knows nothing about CA gun laws
Arnold has professed his belief in the AWB, Brady bill and other "sensible gun control laws"
Arnold says he is going to get $$ from the tribal casinos, but has no plan and short of putting roadblocks up at the entryway to tribal lands.
Arnold is a puppet dancing to Pete Wilson's tune
I see reality, El Rojo and I see that Arnold is not the man I want to run California.
 
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