Giving up on LnL's primer system

[cmcgehee]

I am totally giving up on the primer system on my new Lock n Load AP press. For two weeks, I have tried every adjustment, replaced all parts and followed all youtube videos and taken all advice from Hornady's technicians. It still does not work. You cannot prime over two shells untill it kicks the cam wire out of the cam plunger. I love every other thing about the press but the primer system is Mickey Mouse engineering as far as I am concerned. I am trying to decide whether to go to a hand primer or to a bench primer such as the Lee Bench Prime. I have never used either one. If anyone has any advice to offer or recommendations , I would appreciate it. :banghead:

 

[taymag]

I have a LnL in the garage.. Plan on unpacking it today so this is fun to read lol. I hope mine doesnt give me problems, I use a hand primer and it is such a pain. The good part about it is that you can feel for loose pockets but man it sucks. Other than feeling like I am in the stone age using it, it works well. With pistol I run through 250 or so 9mm with maybe 2 issues, with rifle I have a few more issues but it's still pretty smooth sailing (Lee hand primer).

Ive heard good things about the Lee Bench Prime, if I have problems with the LnL priming system (not sure it will be possible to give up until I get it to work) I may buy one, the price is right for a bench primer

 

[Parman]

Mine does the same thing once in a while so what I have done to remedy it is after I stick a case in the shell holder I just lay my hand on top of the Plastic bracket on top that holds the cam wire with slight pressure. Never have had an issue while doing that. Should I have to do that NO. But it works and I have loaded 1000's of rounds doing this.

I do have a hand primer but very seldom use it. About the only time I use it is when I'm priming .223 after removing the factory crimps to have a good feel on the primer going into the pocket after removing the crimps.

I have a RCBS hand primer. No need for a shell holder because of the design. It will except all cases.

 

[GarySTL]

This isn't going good to help you with your problem, but my LnL progressive is about 5 years old and has worked flawlessly since I bought it. No priming issues at all, though an occasional primer gets stuck on the decapping pin.

Maybe the newer presses are different?

 

[ljnowell]

OP, a progressive you can't prime on is worthless in my opinion. I would send it back to hornady and let them fix it or replace it.

 

[Paddy]

What about a stronger spring on the cup retainer thing? Or maybe replace it with a solid member?

 

[cmcgehee]

OP, a progressive you can't prime on is worthless in my opinion. I would send it back to hornady and let them fix it or replace it.

I have considered sending it back. I am pretty mechanically inclined and am not new to reloading but I am totally frustrated with this. It seems that a lot of people have problems with this priming system. As rugged and stout as every other thing on the lock n load is....the priming system seems to be unnecessarily delicate and finicky. I am not impressed with the design at all.

 

[cmcgehee]

What about a stronger spring on the cup retainer thing? Or maybe replace it with a solid member?

I have tried a stronger spring...only thing that does is send the plunger wire sailing farther when it comes out of the cup.

 

[Wireman]

Another point of view here. The L-n-L press is one of the best for a variety of reasons, but let's just keep it to priming for now. I have owned and used 3 different presses with automatic priming systems and they all have one thing in common. None of them are set up to seat a primer below flush - and maybe not even flush on a rainy day.

That's how they are designed, so all the dunces out there will not crush a primer whilst they attempt to load 500 or more rounds per hour. Again, NO consumer press that I know of will seat a primer below flush and most get away with slightly above that. Its a fact. You must go through your loaded rounds and visually inspect them for high primers. Then take a Sinclair tool and seat the high ones. But I digress.

Priming is the hardest step to set up correctly on any progressive press. You will never achieve a solid production line operation like the ads tell you. The presses do work great, but you have to pay attention on every priming stroke. Let's say there is nothing bent or damaged. It may take the new user several weeks or more to learn the nuances of his press. Each one is different. There are many small tweaks that must be made before everything is lined up and ready. Of the progressives I have owned, the Hornady is the best of them, including the priming. I discovered that for myself, a 2-step process of priming worked the best.

When the case is ready to prime, the handle is straight up. My method is to gently push the lever forward (GENTLY) whilst observing the empty case. If the case wiggles and stands up straight, I know there is a primer in the slide pushing up under the case. Also, this first step lets the primer and case self-align without the application of sudden force. Only if the case shows me that a primer is present do I then push the handle forward to seat the primer.

The above avoids the 2 main problems with priming. First, it insures that a case actually gets primed, and second it allows the case to line itself up with the primer before you smash everything and have to start over. It works and after I started using this method, I had no further priming troubles. There is ALWAYS an exception and that is the last primer in the tube. Most presses will cough on the last primer. You can experiment with placing a bit more weight on the white primer rod - that part is important and not just there for looks.

WM

 

[cmcgehee]

What about a stronger spring on the cup retainer thing? Or maybe replace it with a solid member?

I have thought about replacing it with a permanent member but if anything fails, it will break other parts. That is their reason fort the break-a-way system. It seems that this system fails so often that they had to come up with a way to keep other parts from being destroyed when a failure occurs. The whole break-a-way system is designed around an anticipated failure. I have used Lee's simple primer system for 1000's of rounds and never a problem.

 

[cmcgehee]

Another point of view here. The L-n-L press is one of the best for a variety of reasons, but let's just keep it to priming for now. I have owned and used 3 different presses with automatic priming systems and they all have one thing in common. None of them are set up to seat a primer below flush - and maybe not even flush on a rainy day.

That's how they are designed, so all the dunces out there will not crush a primer whilst they attempt to load 500 or more rounds per hour. Again, NO consumer press that I know of will seat a primer below flush and most get away with slightly above that. Its a fact. You must go through your loaded rounds and visually inspect them for high primers. Then take a Sinclair tool and seat the high ones. But I digress.

Priming is the hardest step to set up correctly on any progressive press. You will never achieve a solid production line operation like the ads tell you. The presses do work great, but you have to pay attention on every priming stroke. Let's say there is nothing bent or damaged. It may take the new user several weeks or more to learn the nuances of his press. Each one is different. There are many small tweaks that must be made before everything is lined up and ready. Of the progressives I have owned, the Hornady is the best of them, including the priming. I discovered that for myself, a 2-step process of priming worked the best.

When the case is ready to prime, the handle is straight up. My method is to gently push the lever forward (GENTLY) whilst observing the empty case. If the case wiggles and stands up straight, I know there is a primer in the slide pushing up under the case. Also, this first step lets the primer and case self-align without the application of sudden force. Only if the case shows me that a primer is present do I then push the handle forward to seat the primer.

The above avoids the 2 main problems with priming. First, it insures that a case actually gets primed, and second it allows the case to line itself up with the primer before you smash everything and have to start over. It works and after I started using this method, I had no further priming troubles. There is ALWAYS an exception and that is the last primer in the tube. Most presses will cough on the last primer. You can experiment with placing a bit more weight on the white primer rod - that part is important and not just there for looks.

WM

I pretty much use the same method as you in seating the primers but that is not the problem I am having. As soon as the wheel on the primer slide starts up the cam wire it knocks it out of the cam plunger cup. I have adjusted it every way possible to no avail. I have replaced all parts to no avail. I have polished all parts to no avail. About half the time, it will also break the plastic bracket that holds the cam wire in place. There is a Company in Florida that makes a much stronger bracket for people that are having the same problem. I installed it and after priming 3 shells with no problem, it broke the bracket and sent the cam wire and spring flying.

 

[Paddy]

I dunno the system seems pretty solid to me. I've had issue with it popping out occasionally but it never flew across room. The plastic thing holds it pretty firmly on top so maybe you have problem there? Also, I remember I did have to bend the wire slightly to achieve the right balance, and also the plastic thing is slotted so you have some adjustment there. I had forgotten the slot and the screw covers it so check that first, you may be adjusted too tight. If still too tight maybe a slight wire bend

 

[Wireman]

I wouldn't say that it is designed around "anticipated failure". These machines have to be designed to minimize accidents that are usually caused by careless reloading practices. My press has never gone into self destruct mode due to the design. On the other hand, I did ruin a lot of cases until I learned what was necessary to operate the press.

WM

 

[Paddy]

Is your priming punch getting stuck in the shuttle? Due to a burr or maybe mis timed paws, I could see this hanging up the works pretty bad.

 

[gwpercle]

I bought a Lee Hand Priming tool when they first came out , It's been so long ago I don't remember the year , have used it ever since , no more on press priming. My original is getting old , like me , I still use it but yesterday ordered a new one because I like the thumb operation and you never know when something good will be dropped .
I plan to set one up for small primes and the other up for large primers. The old one still works and we go back a long time .
Gary

 

[cmcgehee]

I dunno the system seems pretty solid to me. I've had issue with it popping out occasionally but it never flew across room. The plastic thing holds it pretty firmly on top so maybe you have problem there? Also, I remember I did have to bend the wire slightly to achieve the right balance, and also the plastic thing is slotted so you have some adjustment there. I had forgotten the slot and the screw covers it so check that first, you may be adjusted too tight. If still too tight maybe a slight wire bend

I have made every slight adjustment possible with the slotted plastic holder on top. Hornady said it was possible I had a bent wire so I replaced it with a new one. I have not tried adjustment by bending the wire but will try that. I think I have pretty well exhausted all other means.

 

[cmcgehee]

I wouldn't say that it is designed around "anticipated failure". These machines have to be designed to minimize accidents that are usually caused by careless reloading practices. My press has never gone into self destruct mode due to the design. On the other hand, I did ruin a lot of cases until I learned what was necessary to operate the press.

WM

I have not had any problem adjusting anything else on the press to work perfectly including the pawls. Everything else is set up and works perfectly.

 

[cmcgehee]

Is your priming punch getting stuck in the shuttle? Due to a burr or maybe mis timed paws, I could see this hanging up the works pretty bad.

I have replaced the primer punch with a new one. I have adjusted the pawls and they line everything up and work perfect.

 

[cmcgehee]

From what I have read about others with the primer problems...it seems as if you either get one with no problems with the primer system or you get one that does not work properly regardless of what you do. I see and hear from lots of other people just going to off-press priming due to the problems they have with the L n L system. I also read about people that have never had a problem with it right out of the box..I have literally worked with mine for 2-3 hours a day for the past two weeks and it still does not work like it is supposed to. It's just not worth it anymore.

 

[pinkymingeo]

In about 100K rounds, I've never had more than an occasional jam due to junk in the ram which you can feel immediately and stop for a fix, and never had the wire come out of the clip. That should only happen if the ram is stuck in the hole in the slide, which should be an easy fix, or the slide is stuck in some other way, which is about impossible. The slide must be lubricated with powdered graphite, however. If not, I guess it might stick.

 

[cmcgehee]

In about 100K rounds, I've never had more than an occasional jam due to junk in the ram which you can feel immediately and stop for a fix, and never had the wire come out of the clip. That should only happen if the ram is stuck in the hole in the slide, which should be an easy fix, or the slide is stuck in some other way, which is about impossible. The slide must be lubricated with powdered graphite, however. If not, I guess it might stick.

I have polished the slide and also used graphite. I talked again today with Hornady and they felt that there must be a problem with the slide so are sending new ones. I looked very carefully at both. The large primer slide did seem to have a problem...the little axel that holds the wheel was pressed into a hole in the edge of the slide. When the hole was drilled it was off center and so close to edge of slide that the slide itself had a little rounded bump where the axel was pressed into it.....Looking at the small slide, it has very rough mold ridges in the tapered primer hole itself. It is very possible both of these problems could be causing the problem. The large slide by the wheel being off and the small slide by the rough ridges hanging up on the primers themselves as they drop. I would be thrilled to death if this would solve the problem. I am very happy with all other aspects of the press. Every thing on the press is very easy to adjust for smooth performance.

 

[rjbmjb]

I bought a LnL AP about five years ago, and have loaded 10,000 pistol rounds without problems like you describe. I think GarySTL is right about new presses being different- my press does not have the break away cam wire. It has a solid wire that screws into the base of the press.

I have had a few instances over the years where the primer slide gets gunked up and the press won't go all the way up, and I had to remove the slider and clean it. I can see where the break away cam wire would pop out if this happens on a new press.

 

[ljnowell]

Another point of view here. The L-n-L press is one of the best for a variety of reasons, but let's just keep it to priming for now. I have owned and used 3 different presses with automatic priming systems and they all have one thing in common. None of them are set up to seat a primer below flush - and maybe not even flush on a rainy day.



That's how they are designed, so all the dunces out there will not crush a primer whilst they attempt to load 500 or more rounds per hour. Again, NO consumer press that I know of will seat a primer below flush and most get away with slightly above that. Its a fact. You must go through your loaded rounds and visually inspect them for high primers. Then take a Sinclair tool and seat the high ones. But I digress.



Priming is the hardest step to set up correctly on any progressive press. You will never achieve a solid production line operation like the ads tell you. The presses do work great, but you have to pay attention on every priming stroke. Let's say there is nothing bent or damaged. It may take the new user several weeks or more to learn the nuances of his press. Each one is different. There are many small tweaks that must be made before everything is lined up and ready. Of the progressives I have owned, the Hornady is the best of them, including the priming. I discovered that for myself, a 2-step process of priming worked the best.



When the case is ready to prime, the handle is straight up. My method is to gently push the lever forward (GENTLY) whilst observing the empty case. If the case wiggles and stands up straight, I know there is a primer in the slide pushing up under the case. Also, this first step lets the primer and case self-align without the application of sudden force. Only if the case shows me that a primer is present do I then push the handle forward to seat the primer.



The above avoids the 2 main problems with priming. First, it insures that a case actually gets primed, and second it allows the case to line itself up with the primer before you smash everything and have to start over. It works and after I started using this method, I had no further priming troubles. There is ALWAYS an exception and that is the last primer in the tube. Most presses will cough on the last primer. You can experiment with placing a bit more weight on the white primer rod - that part is important and not just there for looks.



WM

I disagree. Both of my lee progressives are set up to seat primers below flush.

 

[cmcgehee]

I bought a LnL AP about five years ago, and have loaded 10,000 pistol rounds without problems like you describe. I think GarySTL is right about new presses being different- my press does not have the break away cam wire. It has a solid wire that screws into the base of the press.

I have had a few instances over the years where the primer slide gets gunked up and the press won't go all the way up, and I had to remove the slider and clean it. I can see where the break away cam wire would pop out if this happens on a new press.

I think I would rather have the fixed wire. The slide on mine has never been gunked up as it has been taken off and cleaned many more times than it has primed brass.

 

[Blue68f100]

This want help but mine has the old style and runs flawless. Have over 50k rounds through it 7-8yrs old, lost track of time.

One of the things I did on the old system was to adj the rod all the way down as low as it would go. Then I adj the upper bracket so the upper section was vertical and aligned with the sled hole. You may have to bend the rod slightly to gain the straight vertical travel.

These press set the primer to what ever depth the primer pocket is, no stop. If you do your part.

I operate mine when seating primers similar to wireman, but my alignment is so good there is not much of a delay.