giving your social for handgun purchase

[thomis]

I just purchased a handgun that I ordered on Gunbroker and had shipped to a local FFL (pawn shop). The transaction was smooth and all involved were as pleasant as can be. It was my first time using this FFL though, and I'm just curious why I had to give my social. I've never had to do it before. It's always been optional on the Federal form. This is my fourth handgun purchase in about a year's time and never before have I been asked for my social. When I questioned him/her, I was told that they needed it for their records. If it makes a difference, I do have my CCW.
What gives?

 

[DCT]

I have never had to give my social, was always told it was an option.

 

[TAEZZAR]

Interesting, my SS card says "Not for Identification", but it's VERY old.
I would challenge their authority to collect it.

 

[Poper]

Interesting, my SS card says "Not for Identification", but it's VERY old.

Mine, too.
However, this is the inherent problem of government: The rules are always changing and nothing today is what it was when it was initiated. Kind of makes you wonder about their motivation all along and suspicious of any current and future statements, doesn't it?

I can say that in my lifetime, government has done very little to inspire confidence and much to undermine it.

Still, though the form 4473 has SSN "optional", the only time I had a NICS check held up was when I did not provide my SSN on the form. Go figure.

Poper

 

[JRWhit]

I have never given a SS and never had an issue.

 

[thomis]

you guys aren't making me feel better. do you think i should notify the sheriff?

 

[oneounceload]

Why? It is not a big deal.

 

[Bubbles]

NC has its own weird laws for handgun transfers, and many states regulate pawnbrokers more tightly than dealers.

Or it could just be their own policy.

If you don't like it, don't use them again.

 

[MEHavey]

Your SSN assists immeasurably in preventing you being denied for being confused by another of the same/similar name.
Yes, I know that "shouldn't" happen,... and your address "should" be enough to differentiate the records.

But.........

It's standard practice on weapons transfer/approval forms.
Don't lose any undue sleep over it

 

[9mmepiphany]

you guys aren't making me feel better. do you think i should notify the sheriff?

What would you notify them of?

That the shop asked for your SS# as a condition of doing business and it isn't a Federal requirement. They said they needed it for their records. Pawn shops are like that, they always try to protect themselves...it is part of their culture.

Do you think it was illegal for them to ask?
It isn't like they were forcing you to give it, you could have taken your business elsewhere.
If you were that uncomfortable with them, why would you do business with them?

 

[akv3g4n]

It's always listed as optional to more correctly identify you if you have a more common name. I wouldn't notify the Sheriff as you didn't technically have to provide it to them. It just sounds like it's their policy.

Personally, I try to never give out my SS unless it is absolutely essential. I would find another shop for your transfers.

 

[Big_John1961]

I don't do it. It's supposed to be optional.

 

[mahansm]

A privately run enterprise is free to ask for your SSN and even to insist upon it as a condition for doing business. You, of course, have the option to decline and to take your business elsewhere.

Government entities are a different matter, and are governed by the privacy act of 1974. According to the act, any government entity (local on up) that requires you to provide your SSN must provide written notice on the form that requires the SSN. The notice is in four parts. They must tell you:
1. Who the number will be disclosed to
2. What happens if you fail to provide the SSN
3. The specific law that allows them to require the SSN
4. That this notice is pursuant to the Privacy Act of 1974.

If you do not see that notice, two things apply:
1. You do *not* have to provide your SSN
2. They may not refuse service because of your failure to disclose your SSN.

You may have to get ugly, but the law is quite plain and they must figure out a way.
Statement such as, "The computer system requires it." have no legal meaning. The response is, "Your computer system is not my problem."

 

[thomis]

Well I was thinking if you thought it was outright wrong of them to ask, I would notify the sheriff that they are doing something wrong. But if it was ok for them to ask, even though the Federal form says its option, than like you said, maybe its just their policy.
If I had known they required it ahead of time, I would have chosen another FFL. But they were the cheapest transfer fee I could find and my gun had already shipped to them. Regardless, I'm at ease now.
My next post will be a review of my new handgun, the Kahr PM40...

 

[Godsgunman]

I never give my social out for any reason and have never had an issue not filling it out on the form.

 

[md2lgyk]

Even though my last name is unusual and I'm not likely to be confused with somebody else, I always put my SSN on the 4473. It's no big deal. The risk of identity theft is seriously overblown. Having dealt with pawn shops and their typical clientele as an LEO, I'm not surprised some require an SSN.

 

[HoosierQ]

Your SSN assists immeasurably in preventing you being denied for being confused by another of the same/similar name.
Yes, I know that "shouldn't" happen,... and your address "should" be enough to differentiate the records.

But.........

It's standard practice on weapons transfer/approval forms.
Don't lose any undue sleep over it

^^This^^ I suspect all the "Jim Smiths" and "Joe Browns" and "Carlos Martinez" of the world are glad to give it. I always have just done it. It's on my tax form.

 

[returningfire]

I hold a FFL in NC. To purchase a handgun you either have to provide a purchase permit from the local LEO, or posses a CCW, then fill out a 4473. Since the FFL did not have to call for a NICS back ground check, as you had a CCW, there is no reason for a SS#. It is optional anyway, when I call in a check through the NCIS (for a long gun only)they will ask if you gave a SS# on the 4473. If you did I have to tell them, but if I reply "none given" they move on to the next question. The 4473 goes in the files for no one else to see unless a trace is required or for an BATF audit. There is also no requirement for a SS# in the FFL holder's "bound book" that they have to maintain either.
They had no reason to request you SS#.
Take your business somewhere else.

 

[David E]

They don't need your SSN. Since they don't need it, why do they want it?

I once called the cops to report a neighbor problem. During the course of the report requesting my information, the officer got to the part asking for my SSN.

"Why do you need it?" I asked. "You have my name, address, phone number and date of birth. What could my SSN possibly do in addition to that?"

He looked a little surprised I didn't just tell him and he searched for a plausible answer: "Uh, the computer won't let us enter the report without it."

"Then I appreciate you coming out, officer. Sorry to have wasted your time."

Now he was really surprised. "Well, let's just complete the report anyway."

What's this? He really DIDN'T need my SSN? Then why was he asking for it?

I later called a cop friend and related the story. He said "if there's a blank that needs to be filled, they ask for the info. As for the computer not accepting the report without it, he says they just hit "Tab" to the next blank space.

ID theft gets easier everyday. No sense making it any easier for them.

.

 

[marv]

Just wait. When you retire your SSN becomes your Medicare number. Then every clerk in every Dr's office, clinic, hospital will have your SSN.

 

[PapaG]

I have called in thousands of "instant" checks at the shop an never once had to input a ssn. I told folks to leave it off if they wanted to.

 

[BSA1]

you guys aren't making me feel better. do you think i should notify the sheriff?

I agree, notifying them about what? That the business was doing everything possible to make sure you are not a prohibited person?

Pawn Shops are commonly accused of being a fence for stolen items. This attitude is even common on THR. Yet the reality is pawn shops in most states are carefully regulated businesses. If I was a pawn shop owner I would collect as much information about the buyer or seller as possible. I would even have a camera system to take photographs of the customer without the customers knowledge.

If you are not comfortable providing information to the seller then just go find another seller.

 

[jcwit]

Try opening any bank acct. or apply for a credit card and see how far you get not giving your SS #.

 

[medalguy]

From the Social Security Administration website:


Legal requirements to provide your Social Security number

Must I provide a Social Security number to any business or government agency that asks?

The Social Security number was originally devised to keep an accurate record of each individual’s earnings, and to subsequently monitor benefits paid under the Social Security program. However, use of the Social Security number as a general identifier has grown to the point where it is the most commonly used and convenient identifier for all types of record-keeping systems in the United States.

Specific laws require a person to provide his or her Social Security number for certain purposes. While we cannot give you a comprehensive list of all situations where a Social Security number might be required or requested, a Social Security number is required or requested by the following organizations:
•Internal Revenue Service for tax returns and federal loans;
•Employers for wage and tax reporting purposes;
•Employers enrolled in E-Verify;
•States for the school lunch program;
•Banks for monetary transactions;
•Veterans Administration as a hospital admission number;
•Department of Labor for workers’ compensation;
•Department of Education for Student Loans;
•States to administer any tax, general public assistance, motor vehicle or drivers license law within its jurisdiction;
•States for child support enforcement;
•States for commercial drivers’ licenses;
•States for Food Stamps;
•States for Medicaid;
•States for Unemployment Compensation;
•States for Temporary Assistance to Needy Families; or
•U.S. Treasury for U.S. Savings Bonds

The Privacy Act regulates the use of Social Security numbers by government agencies. When a federal, state, or local government agency asks an individual to disclose his or her Social Security number, the Privacy Act requires the agency to inform the person of the following: the statutory or other authority for requesting the information; whether disclosure is mandatory or voluntary; what uses will be made of the information; and the consequences, if any, of failure to provide the information.

If a business or other enterprise asks you for your Social Security number, you can refuse to give it. However, that may mean doing without the purchase or service for which your number was requested. For example, utility companies and other services ask for a Social Security number, but do not need it; they can do a credit check or identify the person in their records by alternative means.

Giving your Social Security number is voluntary, even when you are asked for the number directly. If requested, you should ask why your Social Security number is needed, how your number will be used, what law requires you to give your number and what the consequences are if you refuse. The answers to these questions can help you decide if you want to give your Social Security number. The decision is yours.

 

[TRX]

Whenever anyone asks for my "social", I tell them I don't do Facebook.

And when they ask for my "cell", I ask them why they need any of mine, since they have billions of their own?