Glock 20 for grizzlies?

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Takem406

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Spent my whole life in Western Montana and have yet to tag an elk. This fall my buddy and I are planning on a week long archery hunt on horse back.

I've carried mace before and I believe in it. However being that far back for that long I'd like to have a firearm as well.

I've studied the suited calibers for grizzlies and know that you don't want just any caliber.

I was thinking 44 but I'm not a fan of revolvers. It just wouldn't get that much range time. Then if I did do this I'd hate to get a short barreled one that wouldn't be suited for deer hunting.

That leaves me to with the 10mm.
I'm a huge Glock fan. I currently have three and counting. I carry one daily.
I know Double Tap loads hot solids for 10mm that are Glock safe and pack a big punch. But are they hot enough for grizzlies smaller Rocky Mountain grizzlies? Not going to Alaska any time soon...
 
I don't know enough about the penetration required to put down a grizzly to really offer a good opinion, but a really hot FMJ 10 MM is as hot as a good .357 Magnum. 15 rounds of 10mm in a semi auto is IMO the most lethal handgun on the general market.

For real power and penetration, a rifle kicks butt. My first suggestion for a Grizzly defensive gun? Bear spray and a Chinese Mosin Carbine with the forward wood cut off the stock so it resembles a modern rifle stock. 5 or 6 pounds, short, recoil is totally manageable and it is CHEAP but will kill a bear for sure. My brother put together 2 rifles like this. Super handy. But of course the Glock is more versatile and easier to carry.

For a bear, shot placement under crazy stress is absolute king.
 
I think it is asking a lot of 10mm, or .357. Shooting a huge animal multiple times with bullets that don't do enough damage isn't necessarily a replacement for a few bone crushing rounds. Get a .44 Mag anything or .45LC Blackhawk with bear loads.

Another light, useful rifle choice is a Marlin lever action or a short barrel shotgun with slugs.
 
I'd bet in the glock 20 if I were you if you can get some of that hot ammo like say a 200 grain wlfn bullet doing day 1200 Fps and you have 15 of them well keep pulling the trigger
 
Handgun for grizzlies? Hmm, .44 Mag and up, .454, .460?

20 years ago I saw a monster grizz in central Montana, just outside of Helena, I imagine if he's still around he aint gotten smaller or nicer.
 
If on foot, the Glock 20 should strike a balance between weight and firepower for bear defense. But since you're on horseback, why not carry a lever rifle in .45-70?
 
Horseback hunting says it all, >.284 cal.rifle or shotgun is always better than a pistol . Shotgun with tungsten slugs would be my first choice; lead slugs my second. But that's just me.
Get a sidearm just in case, 10mm isn't the worst choice, but darn sure ain't the best IMHO.
 
A good Ol AK will do the trick :p
Seriously probably a shotty with slugs plus at very least .357mag or bigger. Just me though.
 
If you trust a 4" 44 mag to get the job done, you don't give up much with a 10mm. Truthfully neither are ideal and you'll have to get lucky either way, but a Glock gives you 16 chances to get lucky instead of 6.

People mistakenly believe the 44's are much better. From 8" barrels they are, but who carries an 8" revolver? I'd just as soon carry a rifle. The published numbers you see from magnum revolvers are all from 8" guns. When shot from 3-4" guns expect 300-500fps less velocity

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html

A 10mm or any other semi pistol lists published numbers from 4.5" barrels, which is what people actually carry.

I have carried my Glock 20 in GA, TN and NC around black bear quite often. It has allowed me to sleep peacefully in Yellowstone as well. For the big coastal brown bear, I'd probably trust nothing less than a rifle, but would still carry the Glock over a 4" or shorter barreled 44.

My Glock 20 is 3/4 lb lighter and 1" shorter than the 44 mag. I get 1300 fps with 200 gr hardcast bullets. The 44 will only get 1150 fps with 240 gr bullets. Not that great of an advantage really.

001-11.gif
 
From ballistics by the inch

44 Mag Results in fps

Left to right

Cor Bon 165 gr. JHP Cor Bon 225 gr. DPX Federal 240 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP Speer 200 gr. Gold Dot Short-bbl HP
18" 1558 1540 1643 1341
17" 1590 1563 1629 1354
16" 1552 1532 1619 1377
15" 1564 1550 1645 1361
14" 1541 1506 1623 1358
13" 1549 1495 1608 1341
12" 1514 1474 1579 1353
11" 1497 1472 1584 1315
10" 1501 1467 1571 1319
9" 1438 1447 1535 1278
8" 1433 1387 1497 1282
7" 1385 1385 1462 1251
6" 1321 1320 1380 1197
5" 1270 1301 1367 1170
4" 1150 1250 1251 1099
3" 1015 1095 1095 964
2" 952 951 944 833

460 Rowland Results in fps

Cor Bon Hunter 230 gr. JHP
18" 1356
17" 1366
16" 1354
15" 1352
14" 1342
13" 1344
12" 1314
11" 1293
10" 1335
9" 1303
8" 1299
7" 1273
6" 1261
5" 1208
4" 1124
3" 1082
2" 974

10mm Results in fps

Cor Bon 135 gr. Pow'R Ball Cor Bon 135 gr. JHP Cor Bon 150 gr. JHP Cor Bon 165 gr. JHP Cor Bon 155 gr. DPX Federal 180 gr. Hydra-Shok Buffalo Bore 180gr. JHC Winchester 175 gr. Silvertip Hornady 200 gr. XTP
18" 1640 1710 1567 1447 1319 1232 1573 1370 1260
17" 1626 1711 1559 1459 1352 1209 1564 1362 1243
16" 1643 1701 1570 1441 1349 1220 1573 1384 1257
15" 1620 1662 1574 1441 1339 1204 1555 1357 1267
14" 1639 1691 1569 1439 1355 1222 1583 1397 1280
13" 1634 1679 1547 1437 1354 1223 1586 1365 1269
12" 1615 1653 1519 1410 1307 1195 1562 1321 1267
11" 1600 1643 1521 1401 1329 1182 1543 1312 1225
10" 1580 1601 1494 1400 1333 1171 1509 1348 1234
9" 1568 1594 1489 1378 1306 1179 1508 1304 1206
8" 1533 1575 1466 1349 1294 1146 1482 1276 1190
7" 1508 1575 1446 1331 1268 1129 1453 1269 1184
6" 1432 1504 1426 1307 1254 1093 1428 1228 1174
5" 1418 1411 1382 1260 1244 1069 1399 1225 1133
4" 1328 1322 1301 1209 1183 1013 1338 1149 1077
3" 1248 1255 1218 1157 1116 927 1250 1089 1032
2" 1083 1071 1020 976 1014 841 1111 950 912

Either a glock in 10mm or 460 rowland will work fine. Getting some ammo from underwood and you'll be good to go.
 
I think the Glock 10mm is a great woods gun. Not sure I would take it looking for grizzlies, but you're not looking for them either.

I would take the Glock, look into the extended barrel to get a bit more out of it, and keep a rifle on the horse. I like 45-70.

15rds of 10mm is a lot of energy in a handgun! Again, not saying I would take it grizzly hunting but neither is the OP.
 
I'd rather carry a 45-70 or a 450 Marlin! I'd definitely get the long slide model. I think Lone Wolf actually makes a "bear Glock". That's just it. More than likely I'd never see a bear. I'll check on Double Tap too.
 
Takem406 said:
Spent my whole life in Western Montana and have yet to tag an elk. This fall my buddy and I are planning on a week long archery hunt on horse back.

I've carried mace before and I believe in it. However being that far back for that long I'd like to have a firearm as well.

I've studied the suited calibers for grizzlies and know that you don't want just any caliber.

I was thinking 44 but I'm not a fan of revolvers. It just wouldn't get that much range time. Then if I did do this I'd hate to get a short barreled one that wouldn't be suited for deer hunting.

That leaves me to with the 10mm.
I'm a huge Glock fan. I currently have three and counting. I carry one daily.
I know Double Tap loads hot solids for 10mm that are Glock safe and pack a big punch. But are they hot enough for grizzlies smaller Rocky Mountain grizzlies? Not going to Alaska any time soon...
Click to expand...

Disclaimer:

I have never hunted bear or been attacked by a bear, and probably for most of the people posting to this thread the same is true. Sooooo, keep that in mind and think about asking for opinions in forums more likely to have members who have hunted or been attacked by bears as they may give you better insights on what you can expect from the bear and yourself.

My Book and Buddy knowledge:

Can we assume it is legal in Montana for you to carry a Firearm on an Archery Hunt?

Can we assume you have no interest in carrying a rifle or shotgun?

Can we assume you realize that there are no "smaller" Grizzlies only larger Grizzlies?

If the answer is yes to the above questions:

Start with the pepper spray, this is what the State of Alaska recommends because your odds of surviving are greater than starting with a pistol.
IF, the spray is ineffective in stopping a charging bear you will most likely be in contact distance so fast you will not get many if any shots off. However, if you have icewater for blood and exceptional pistol shooting skills you may be able to fire before the pain begins. If this is you then you are not asking too much from the 10mm with heavy HC loads because they will penetrate the skull and you are familiar with the Glock. If this is not you then a .40+ caliber revolver loaded with heavy HC that will not malfunction when pressed between you and the bear is a much better choice. Expect to die and be happy when you are only maimed. Good Luck.
 
Yep, we can carry a side arm during archery season.
I would love to tote a 450 Marlin with heavy loads however with 50 pounds in a pack and a bow in my hand it's not practical.

I think another reason people get into tough spots with bears is that they aren't aware of their surroundings.

Mace is the better bet. But if I were to carry a firearm as well...

I found this load from Double Tap...
Ballistics : 1300fps/ 750 ft./lbs. - Glock 20
1105fps / 542 ft lbs 100yds Glock 20
Glock 29 - 1240fps
Then with a longslide you'd get a touch more but not much.
 
Takem406 said:
Yep, we can carry a side arm during archery season.
I would love to tote a 450 Marlin with heavy loads however with 50 pounds in a pack and a bow in my hand it's not practical.

I think another reason people get into tough spots with bears is that they aren't aware of their surroundings.

Mace is the better bet. But if I were to carry a firearm as well...

I found this load from Double Tap...
Ballistics : 1300fps/ 750 ft./lbs. - Glock 20
1105fps / 542 ft lbs 100yds Glock 20
Glock 29 - 1240fps
Then with a longslide you'd get a touch more but not much.
Click to expand...

I've got a G20. I replaced the stock barrel with a 6" KKM that has conventional rifling and slightly better MV. Unless you really want a long slide , save the $ and just get the barrel. You don't have to go with KKM as there are other makers. The 200 and heavier grain hardcast from various sources are you best choice in my opinion. In my gun they produce impressive penetration in the various junk I have shot. I live in a very large city, and only carry the 10mm out in the wilderness. No grizzlies here but we have a few bears, a few cougars, and many of the most dangerous predators. The G20 is perfect for that environment. You should also buy a 9X25 barrel just to see the look on people's faces when you fire it at an indoor range, it is hilarious!;)
 
newfalguy101 said:
Just a thought, but, it wouldnt hurt to take a look at the hunting regs to confirm its even legal to have a firearm with you on an archery hunt
Click to expand...

Yep, as long as I'm not taking the big game with the handgun DURING archery season. Unless it's fall black bear then I could shoot my black bear with it while wearing orange. Either way to hunt black bears you need orange no matter the weapon used.
I know some states are stupid about this. Like Arkansas. I was going to do a Farrel hog hunt there last year which is all good. However in the summer you can only use the weapons allowed for whatever season might be open. Which I believe was squirrel...
 
Takem406 said:
Yep, as long as I'm not taking the big game with the handgun DURING archery season. Unless it's fall black bear then I could shoot my black bear with it while wearing orange. Either way to hunt black bears you need orange no matter the weapon used.
I know some states are stupid about this. Like Arkansas. I was going to do a Farrel hog hunt there last year which is all good. However in the summer you can only use the weapons allowed for whatever season might be open. Which I believe was squirrel...
Click to expand...

A barrel would be cheaper. Honestly I just want a G20, and if I could have another way to justify it to the budgeting officer of the household... I'd really like to deer hunt with it.
 
Every video I've seen of a charging or running bear shows the animal bouncing around, slewing left and right, and with its head going up and down.

I wonder how many times I could hit it in a vital location under stress.

Many years ago, as a town cop, I had to shoot a large, vicious German Shepherd (he was a known biter) which charged me off a porch. I was carrying a Colt Combat Commander in .45 and I emptied it--8 rounds. He dropped (not quite dead) about 3 feet away from me.

I hit him twice, once in the front paw and once, thank God, through his mouth, a lucky shot. And I considered myself a pretty good pistolero then. Humbling.

.44s, .45s, and 500s hold 5 or 6 chances, and you won't be reloading.

The Glock 20 holds, what?, 17 or 18 rounds? Shooting fast, all could probably be delivered in 4 or 5 seconds and just maybe, one would hit something important.

I think I'd be better served with the Glock, providing I was using penetrating bullets.

Just thinkin' out loud here...


Tim
 
Last edited:
Takem406 said:
Spent my whole life in Western Montana and have yet to tag an elk. This fall my buddy and I are planning on a week long archery hunt on horse back.

I've carried mace before and I believe in it. However being that far back for that long I'd like to have a firearm as well.

I've studied the suited calibers for grizzlies and know that you don't want just any caliber.

I was thinking 44 but I'm not a fan of revolvers. It just wouldn't get that much range time. Then if I did do this I'd hate to get a short barreled one that wouldn't be suited for deer hunting.

That leaves me to with the 10mm.
I'm a huge Glock fan. I currently have three and counting. I carry one daily.
I know Double Tap loads hot solids for 10mm that are Glock safe and pack a big punch. But are they hot enough for grizzlies smaller Rocky Mountain grizzlies? Not going to Alaska any time soon...
Click to expand...
Make sure you have a will and funeral arrangements before heading into wilderness in case you meet angry Griz while carrying G20.
 
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