Glock or S&W 3rd Gen?

[David E]

Yeah, I saw it.

Just curious why you kept tap-dancing around the "reliably at speed" elements, but I think I know. But enough about you.

I own 6 third generation S&W's. I scored 100% with the four I chose to qualify with. All starts were holstered, hammer down, first shot was always DA. One gun, the 5903 SSV I took to Qual day, mainly to show it to the Range Sgt. I'd just bought it and hadn't fired a single shot thru it. Sgt made me shoot the qualification with it anyway. I was pleased that I scored another 100% with it. (kinda pissed off the Sgt at the same time, which was a bonus!)

One of the things about choosing a gun is "fit." How does the gun fit your hand? Can you activate all the controls on it? Can you do it reliably at speed? Can you do it safely? (I had one student that couldn't decock a Beretta without his trigger finger sympatheticly going to the trigger)

One reason the 1911 is nearly 100 yrs old is that it FITS, or can be made to fit, the vast majority of shooters. In addition, the safety falls naturally under the thumb, making it easy to reliably take it off during a fast presenstion. 100 out of 100 times for folks that are willing to put in the time to learn it, which really doesn't take all that long.

Gun fit matters.

 

[Homerboy]

Just curious why you kept tap-dancing around the "reliably at speed" elements, but I think I know. But enough about you.

I own 6 third generation S&W's. I scored 100% with the four I chose to qualify with. All starts were holstered, hammer down, first shot was always DA. One gun, the 5903 SSV I took to Qual day, mainly to show it to the Range Sgt. I'd just bought it and hadn't fired a single shot thru it. Sgt made me shoot the qualification with it anyway. I was pleased that I scored another 100% with it. (kinda pissed off the Sgt at the same time, which was a bonus!)

One of the things about choosing a gun is "fit." How does the gun fit your hand? Can you activate all the controls on it? Can you do it reliably at speed? Can you do it safely? (I had one student that couldn't decock a Beretta without his trigger finger sympatheticly going to the trigger)

One reason the 1911 is nearly 100 yrs old is that it FITS, or can be made to fit, the vast majority of shooters. In addition, the safety falls naturally under the thumb, making it easy to reliably take it off during a fast presenstion. 100 out of 100 times for folks that are willing to put in the time to learn it, which really doesn't take all that long.

Gun fit matters.

Gun fit does matter, but that has nothing to do with the post, or your responses to it. You're saying that a safety somehow increases the speed of getting the weapon into action. I'm calling BS on that one. As your hand gripd the weapon to draw, the safety is being disengaged. Before it clears leather, the safety is off.

Then you go on to say that cops have been killed by safety featured weapons. Find me ONE instance of that happeneing. I can sure find you MANY where safeties and magazine disconnects have saved lives.

If fit matters so much, and since PD's generally specify which weapon an officer can carry, there are many cops out there carrying a gun that doesn't fit them. When you are told you will be carrying a Glock 22, you carry a Glock 22. And the Glock grip can't even be changed (unless an officer carries a Gen 4 Glock, and they aren't working out so well).

 

[easyg]

I would choose either Glock over those S&W models.

There's a good reason that S&W no longer makes those models and now has the M&P line which is very similar to the Glock.

 

[indykappa]

easyg, surely you don't equate S&W's desire to keep up with modern designs by creating a lighter pistol (the M&P) with their previous autoloaders being inferior?

S&W created the M&P because the number of CCWs has probably quadrupled since the 3rd generation guns were originally made available! people who CCW want light guns. i love my 5904. it was my 1st pistol, and it means alot to me because my dad took me to buy it. i carried that gun for nearly 10 years, and thought all guns weighed that much.

now i carry an M&P40c because i no longer like to walk with a limp!

 

[18DAI]

Money, $$, dollars is the only reason S&W stopped making the 3rd generation pistols and put all their eggs in the tupperware basket.

The profit margin on 3rd generation guns is a fraction of what it is on pistols popped out of a mold.

Simple economics. TJ

 

[easyg]

easyg, surely you don't equate S&W's desire to keep up with modern designs by creating a lighter pistol (the M&P) with their previous autoloaders being inferior?

The M&P line was created not just to be lighter in weight, but also more reliable, easier to maintain, and easier to gunsmith and repair.

Those 3rd gen S&W's just don't do anything better than the current M&P pistols do, or Glock pistols.

 

[valorius]

They don't do anything worse than those pistols do either, except for being a bit heavier.

 

[jackpinesavages]

I would buy both, but in different builds than you spec'd; G34 or G35. Any 3rd gen derivant of the 10xx series. The S&W before the Gs, however.

 

[SwampWolf]

Gun fit does matter, but that has nothing to do with the post, or your responses to it. You're saying that a safety somehow increases the speed of getting the weapon into action. I'm calling BS on that one. As your hand gripd the weapon to draw, the safety is being disengaged. Before it clears leather, the safety is off.

Then you go on to say that cops have been killed by safety featured weapons. Find me ONE instance of that happeneing. I can sure find you MANY where safeties and magazine disconnects have saved lives.

I have to agree with this sentiment. Before I retired, my agency required us to carry Third Generation Smiths in the "traditional" da configuration. Most of our qualification drills required us to draw from a buttoned-down, holstered pistol with a jacket (we were a plain-clothes unit) covering the pistol and hand off the pistol, and deliver two shots to the target in two seconds or under. With practice, I had no trouble accomplishing this course of fire, "fifty out of fifty" times, with a snapped Bianchi thumbbreak holster. On the draw, the thumb unsnaps the holster and the safety is disengaged as the pistol is brought to the target. After the shots, the pistol was decocked and returned to the holster.
One other point to be made is the oft-cited enigma posed by having to transition from da to sa. Mr. Cooper's opinion notwithstanding, my experiece has been that a modicum of practice in a good training regimen largely obviates any drawbacks to the da/sa format.

 

[valorius]

It's nice to know i am not alone in my opinions and experiences.

 

[carbuncle]

Update: I found a 5906 in great condition and put it on layaway, my heart just wasn't in the Glock (at any price). Great guns, I've got no complaints about any Glock that I've shot and I still may pick up a G20 someday, but I wanted the 5906 and the wife expressed a dislike of the Glock's handling characteristics after a gun shop trip to check out a few different models. If she doesn't like the 5906, I guess I'll just have to keep buying guns until she finds one she likes...

 

[PX15]

Car:

Now, add a Crimson Trace Lasergrip to your new 5906 and you will be good to go...



Wait...

Now get yourself a 6906 for a b/u, and use the higher capacity mags of the 5906 (w/mag adapter)....

Sweet..



Wait!

Don't forget to pick up the "significant other" that LadySmith she's been wanting...



Hey..

And while you're at it, a nice CS9 couldn't hurt?



And you just know sooner or later somebody is going to whine any 9MM pistol is just a 45ACP set on "stun"..

For those folks having a CS45 as a carry option might not be a bad thing?



And then there's......?

Best Wishes on acquiring the 5906.. We love ours..

Jesse

P.S. Obviously I love ALL the 3rd Gen Smith pistols...

 

[carbuncle]

Thanks for the encouragement, great collection you have there. BTW, I already have the 6906, so the next piece of the puzzle is a CS9 next year!

 

[Confederate]

Glocks are probably the most dangerous gun on the market. People can be trained to shoot them reliably, but if sleepy, groggy...accidental discharges are common. We also train people to load magazines with one hand. Why? If one loses motor control in their arm or hand, Glocks are reliably unreliable. You can't shoot limp-wristed.

My 5906 will reliably shoot limp-wristed each time every time. Glocks will unreliably shoot limp-wristed each time every time.

Your decision.

Besides, S&Ws are better looking.

 

[Confederate]

There's a good reason that S&W no longer makes those models and now has the M&P line which is very similar to the Glock.

Yes, and most of it has to do with overhead.

Resources, such as steel, and craftsmanship, are two of the reasons. If manufactured today, the 5906 would cost close to a grand to buy. Polymers are cheaper. But if I could buy one of the two for the same price, I'd buy the 5906 any day. I'd most likely purchase a Springfield now over a S&W, because the Springfield is better than the MP and the Glock.

 

[carbuncle]

Agreed, the only reason S&W stopped producing the 3rd Gen was production cost and demand (plastic is trendy, not a knock on it, just an observation).

Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread, all your replies have been a very interesting read!

 

[David E]

Homerboy: You're saying that a safety somehow increases the speed of getting the weapon into action. I'm calling BS on that one.

I didn't say that.

As your hand gripd the weapon to draw, the safety is being disengaged. Before it clears leather, the safety is off.

Are you talking S&W 3rd Gen guns? From a holster with a thumb break? We're back to the "reliably at speed" dynamic that no one wants to address. Many police courses that had "Timed target exposure" have turning targets operated by pnuematics. The target "face" time began once the target was fully turned, but there was a 2 second "Spoosh" of air prior to the target beginning to turn. Everyone reacts to the "spoosh," thereby gaining 2 seconds on the string of fire, so a "2 second target exposure" resulted in a 4 second time frame to get both shots off.

 

[carbuncle]

And here it is, just picked it up from the FFL today:





I forgot how good the 5906 feels in the hand, it's a very solid pistol! My wife said, upon handling it, "Wow, NICE!"

 

[sidheshooter]

Well, all's well that ends well on this thread, at least!

 

[18DAI]

Beautiful! Congrats!

You chose well!!

 

[dwhite]

Glock 22

I just found myself in a similar situation and bought one. I like the round. I like the utilitarian Glock design and finish. I like the upgrade / modification ability.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[carbuncle]

I'll end up with some Glocks eventually, it just wasn't the right time yet. I'm thinking G36, G20, G29 somewhere down the line. Congrats on the 22!

 

[SwampWolf]

Many police courses that had "Timed target exposure" have turning targets operated by pnuematics. The target "face" time began once the target was fully turned, but there was a 2 second "Spoosh" of air prior to the target beginning to turn. Everyone reacts to the "spoosh," thereby gaining 2 seconds on the string of fire, so a "2 second target exposure" resulted in a 4 second time frame to get both shots off.

Maybe I just served in a cheap department-we drew our 3rd generation Smiths at the sound of a whistle; no advance notice "spoosh" for us! And the two seconds were just that-two seconds (though there were times I am convinced the instructor was blowing his whistle in under two seconds... ).

 

[PabloJ]

I like your Laddie Smith pistol.
My choice was between Glock 19, S&W99 or Walther 99. After nights sleep I bought S&W 457. It was less expensive then those mentioned and I had recently sold Makarov and Tokarev pistols so American version of ole' ComBlok mil spec gun was a natural choice.

 

[Condition Yellow]

Carbuncle, nice pistol. I've got both, a G19 & 3913. I like them for different reasons, but the Glock has nothing over the Smith in terms of reliability in my experience. But one has a personality, one does not. My wife certainly prefers one over the other, and I can't disagree ...