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Glock Pointability

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by CombatArmsUSAF, Sep 24, 2005.

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  1. CombatArmsUSAF

    CombatArmsUSAF Member

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    I have shot several glocks over the years (17,23, and recently the 22) Since I just got seriously involved in shooting over the past two years I never really knew what I was looking for in a gun until recently. Now the other day my boss brought his Glock 22 into work, which gave me the opportunity to do a serious review of the glock brand of firearms and if I would be buying one in the future. One of things that concerns me about the Glock 22 is the fact that when I bring the weapon up to the target I am looking at about 1"-1.5" gap in between the rear sight and the front sight. Now I understand that I can train myself to bring it on target naturally, but when I have firearms available to me like any number of my berettas or xds that naturally, due to a more ergonomically suitable grip, can be easily brought onto target I don't see the point. The pointability of the glock is similar to that of a revolver which is why I don't shoot wheel guns. Having to train for this, in my mind, is a unnecassary step, and one that unless practiced a whole hell of a lot could be forgotten in stressful situation causing you to take a half a second longer coming on target. We all know what that can end up meaning.

    ;) Disclaimer ;) I am not bashing the glock brand of firearms, I am simply stating that the grip angle is not for everyone, especially not me.
     
  2. Sergeant Sabre

    Sergeant Sabre Member

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    I feel your pain. The Glock pistols are very good, rugged, reliable pistols. I am somewhat dissappointed that the grip is so poor (for me).

    During the course of my current academy training, I carry a Glock 22. When I draw it and try to come on target, it just feels like the pistol is "fighting" my hand :mad: . It feels I have to force it to go where I want.

    Conversely, pistols with a grip shape more congruent with the shape of the inside of a human hand when clenched, such as my Colt Government, the Berettas, High Powers, Sigs, and XDs I've handled, seem to just want to easily point wherever I am looking.

    <sigh>
     
  3. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

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    Pointability is an important factor that many people ignore when they buy their first gun.

    Having a gun that does not naturally point at the target for you is fine for plinking, but not good for a CCW.
     
  4. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Glock grips just don't do it for me, either. I've gone through three Glocks, starting with the 17 back in the early '90s ... I went through a spell where I actually carried a 23 daily ... but, in spite of taking the 23 through a couple training courses and for a while, almost daily range sessions, I simply could not shoot this platform anywhere near as well as I shoot 1911s, SIGs or even the M-9. The grip angle doesn't work for me, and I'd bet there are a lot more folks out there who intuitively know it doesn't work for them either, but won't admit it ... let's face it, there are many, many more platforms out there with better ergonomics (and I'd include the CZ-75 series, the SA XD series, 1911s, many SIGs, hell, even the S&W Sigmas and Taurus 24/7s and Milleniums in the categories of handguns that fit more peoples' hands better than Glocks).
     
  5. ChuckB

    ChuckB Member

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    Everone's different, of course. I shoot pretty well with my G19, but some folks don't like the grip angle. Proper fit is essential. If a gun doesn't feel right to you, move on. If it feels just right, buy it. Or, "If the gun is mo' fly, then you must buy"! ;)

    Chuck
     
  6. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

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    I have no problem transitioning from my Glocks to my 1911s or to my wheelguns.
     
  7. para.2

    para.2 Member

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    For me, Glocks "point" just fine. I have to adjust with other pistols/revolvers. That's why there's Ford/Chevy/Honda,etc. :)
     
  8. markinho

    markinho Member

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    I've shot a loaner G19 a few times and thought that it pointed pretty well but felt that the G19's overall ergonomics were just so-so. Then I handled--but didn't shoot--an XD-9 and thought that it REALLY felt like a huge improvement over the G19.

    But when I shot the XD-9 I was surprised to find that I remember the G19 to feel more natural in terms of pointability. The XD-9 did feel better in my hand, but once I got to raising the gun and aiming, all bets were off and the G19 to me lined up and shot more accurately, to boot.

    Memories can be deceiving, so I swapped out the XD for a G19 and found that my recollection was correct: head-to-head the G19 pointed more naturally to me and shot more accurately. Incidentally, I noticed less recoil on the G19 than the XD-9.

    Now, my impression is hardly scientific---in fact it's about as subjective as you can get. Getting back to pointability, the only thing I could account for this would be the grip angle of the Glock as compared to the XD-9. I am relatively new to handguns and am still sorting out which semiauto to get as a second handgun to accompany my .22 Ruger, so the issue of "what feels best in my hand" obviously has to include pointability, not just dry-firing hand ergonomics.

    Anybody have any thoughts on how the Glock's grip angle affects pointability, one way or the other?
     
  9. GotGlock

    GotGlock Member

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    The glock grip angle helps keep the gun lower in your hand, that really helps with muzzle flip. I find my g19 will point where i want it to without even thinking about it. Thats why i bought it. Being a rookie shooter and not having any experience with anything else, i took to the glock like a fish to water, im sure if i had been shooting 1911's my whole life it would have felt weird.
     
  10. 45+

    45+ Member

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    I started carrying when most LEO's (I was a reserve deputy sherriff) would not carry a semi because of the unreliability, so I carried a revolver per deparmental policy. When I picked up my first Glock, I was amazed at how "naturally" it pointed. Perhaps it was all that revolver training.

    When I purchased a Glock and found it to be dependable from personal experience and respected opinions, I began carrying one as my CCW. I still carry a proven revolver, or a Glock, or a Taurus Millennium as my duty weapon (security guard) or ccw without a moment's hesitation. They all point naturally for me and I trust that any will do the job when called upon if I do my part.

    If a handgun does not point naturally for you, choose something that does. If there are overwhelming reasons to choose one that does not (departmental issue, etc.), then plan to train until it does point naturally. Perhaps a laser sight would aid this process. But whatever it takes, get comfortable with the gun you carry/plan to use either by selection or by (re)training.

    Good shootin'....
     
  11. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    Actually, this is my biggest issue with Glocks. I am not a glock hater by any stretch, although I do have to laugh at some of the praise that is heaped on this gun, and I do not buy into the the whole "trigger safety" thing, as I just can't wrap my mind around how that little bar, that takes up the bulk of the trigger space can make the gun any safer than one that doesn't, but other than that, I can't say that I have ever been horrified by the glocks that I have shot. For me, I just don't care for the feel of the gun, and as a result will likely never own one.
     
  12. Mastrogiacomo

    Mastrogiacomo Member

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    I think they're great, easier to carry than my Berettas too. I'd love a Glock 26 if my state would just let them back in.... :(
     
  13. Smoke

    Smoke Member

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    Pick one platform and stick with it.

    Glock's not yours. It's not mine either. Die hard Glock owners will have a similar issue with shooting low if they switch to a 1911 or similar angle grip.

    Train with one platform, carry one platform, less need to think when the pressure in on.

    Smoke
     
  14. Tokugawa

    Tokugawa Member

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    since we have plastic guns, why don't the manufacturers supply a polymerizing grip putty- you activate the polymer putty, hold the weapon in a suitable position, I.E. natural point, and mold the putty to your palm, fingers, etc? when cured a perfect fit.
     
  15. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Pointability is based on two things.

    Basic ergonomics of the firearm.
    If you're not accustomed to a particular grip angle/design, then your hand/wrist structure will determine the best grip angle/design for you.

    What the shooter is used to.
    If you're accustomed to a particular grip angle/design, then what you've trained your hand/wrist to do while shooting will determine the best grip angle/design for you. In other words, once you're used to a particular grip angle, it will seem "right" to you even if it's not the most ergonomic design for your hand/wrist structure. AND, conversely, a more ergonomic design may feel or point "wrong" because of how you have trained your hand/wrist.

    Probably 9 times out of 10, people complaining about the pointability or grip angle of a gun are talking about the latter issue but making it sound like the former issue.
     
  16. Black Majik

    Black Majik Member

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    My only gripe about Glocks was the pointability also. Other than that, I find them to be fantastic firearms. But, for me... I started off shooting 1911s, and no matter how I tried to adjust to the Glock grip angle, I'd always naturally aim high. It became a burden to have to readjust the line of sight for each shot, too much work to shoot straight for me.

    Otherwise, I honestly think it'd be the PERFECT CCW weapon if that darn Glock pointed naturally in my hands. But what do I know, I dont CCW, but it has some great qualities.

    Oh yeah, that trigger too... I've tried to forget about it... :uhoh: :D
     
  17. kimbermaniac

    kimbermaniac Member

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    Never had any issues with my Glocks pointability/grip or otherwise.Can't even relate to some of the complaints.I guess if Glock ain't for you, it ain't for you.In fact I had a couple Sig Sauer's,a Kimber and I'm back with a Glock.So,I guess I prefer Glocks.
     
  18. DAVE RICHARDS

    DAVE RICHARDS Member

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    Everybodies hands are different. Glocks grip angle doesn't work for lots of people. Try an XD9 if your interested in a Glock style pistol. It follows the lines of the 1911 as far as grip angle. It works alot better for alot of people. The CZ75 points well for alot of people. The 1911 and Hi Power are also excellent as far as pointability. You have to simply find what works for you hand and grip.
     
  19. Soap

    Soap Member

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    Try practicing with it.
     
  20. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

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    Now Daniel, if you want to make sense don't expect anyone to listen. A nugget of truth like gaining proficiency will likely fall on deaf ears.
     
  21. pax

    pax Member

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    [rant]

    Here's the thing that gets me: too many people find that a particular brand of gun doesn't point well for them, and then get online and post, "That brand of gun doesn't point well! It's got a lousy grip angle!"

    That "lousy" grip angle for you might be the cat's pajamas for someone else. There's no such thing as a perfect grip angle for everyone, and no such thing as a terrible grip angle for everyone.

    People are all different. That's why they make different guns.

    [/rant]

    pax

    Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world. -- Schopenhauer
     
  22. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    Another grip gripe

    I agree with Pax that because the Glock grip angle is wrong for me (it feels lousy) that it is wrong for everybody. Case in point is my friend Mark. He's got a Ruger P89 (pretty sure) that he loves and has had for a few years now. He keeps it clean, feeds it ammo it likes, and in turn it runs like a fine watch. No FTF, FTE, or any other nonsense. Just shooting and Mark smiling. I can't hit the side of a barn with it. Good for him, bad for me. I've got beefs with the Glock design, but grip angle isn't a concrete one.
     
  23. PressCheck

    PressCheck Member

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    I shoot about 1,000 rounds a month thru my Glock 21. It points well, hits what I aim at, and I have NO felt recoil.

    OBTW - I clean it regulary after 3 - 4 thousand rounds.
     
  24. Bart Noir

    Bart Noir Member

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    Agree with CombatArmsUSAF and others, I have to drop the front sight from where it "naturally" points. But I think there may be an upside to the angle we speak of. I am not any sort of pro in anatomy, but it just seems to me that my lower arm and wrist are stretched a little more when aiming a Glock and that position just seems more stable, and more able to absorb the muzzle lift without much actual muzzle lift. Anybody else get that feeling?

    Now, there is a better way of having exactly the same angle. This is the Steyr M9/M40 series. The front of the grip is exactly the same angle as on the Glock, but the contours of the whole grip and especially the back of it, make it feel less "nose high" upon presenting the gun for firing. There is still some of this "nose high" affect but not as much.

    In the long run, my Glocks have been sold but I have 2 Steyrs.

    Bart Noir
     
  25. 3rdpig

    3rdpig Member

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    We're only talking a few degrees difference here. It's all about muscle memory. Whichever one you practice with the most will be the one that naturally lines up for you. I originally learned with a variety of semi autos, most had the 1911 type grip angle. I only started using Glocks a year ago and now when I point my High Power I find I'm pointing it downward a couple of degrees and have to bring the muzzle up. That's what practicing regularly for a year with Glocks did. That's why both my main defense weapon and my CCW weapon are now both Glocks. Since I believe that the Glock is the best gun for my needs I'm willing to put the time in at the range and at home to make them second nature to me. Spend the most time practicing with the guns you'll be needing the most.
     
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