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Glock Project #2: G17 Carry Gun

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As soon as I buy my gen 3 G22 issue from the dept. I'm going to chop the grip to a G27 size and use it as my off duty carry. I've carried my own G22 on duty for years, but really wanted to go to the issued one since I finally felt that if I had to use it in the line of duty, I may never see it again once the state investigations got hold of it. So I'll have two G22s once we upgrade to the gen 4s.

I've been carrying a five shot .357 mag (+6 extra rounds) for about 10 years now but want to bump up the capacity. I've been reading too many accounts of multiple attackers in various scenarios. My body type pretty much requires a shorter grip, so that's why I'm going for the G27 grip size.
 
I carried a 19 and a 17 as a LEO (plainclothes). I carried the 19 for a few years. I compared it to a 17 and found no real difference in concealability. I carried a 17 for the last 5 years. Chopping the grip on a 17 seems like a lot of work with no real return.

That depends a lot on your build such as height, weight etc.For example, the post right after yours:

My body type pretty much requires a shorter grip, so that's why I'm going for the G27 grip size

GRIZ22,
It works for you, and yes I can pull it off also but I can pull of a G19 lenght grip frame better. Honestly, chopping the grip was not a lot of work if you know what you are doing. I also get to use G19 magazines which I have a lot of, and I get the benefit of having extra pace between the magazine base plate and grip frame base for one handed mag rips in the case that it is needed.
 
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As soon as I buy my gen 3 G22 issue from the dept. I'm going to chop the grip to a G27 size and use it as my off duty carry. I've carried my own G22 on duty for years, but really wanted to go to the issued one since I finally felt that if I had to use it in the line of duty, I may never see it again once the state investigations got hold of it. So I'll have two G22s once we upgrade to the gen 4s.

I've been carrying a five shot .357 mag (+6 extra rounds) for about 10 years now but want to bump up the capacity. I've been reading too many accounts of multiple attackers in various scenarios. My body type pretty much requires a shorter grip, so that's why I'm going for the G27 grip size.

Good on you, set the gun up the way that you need it to meet your needs. That is wht it is all about in my book.
 
As soon as I buy my gen 3 G22 issue from the dept. I'm going to chop the grip to a G27 size and use it as my off duty carry. I've carried my own G22 on duty for years, but really wanted to go to the issued one since I finally felt that if I had to use it in the line of duty, I may never see it again once the state investigations got hold of it. So I'll have two G22s once we upgrade to the gen 4s.
I don't blame you for waiting but are you sure you want to chop it that much? I have thought about cutting my G22 down (though not seriously) to a G23 size grip. Then I thought I would rather just get a 23 and put an extended barrel in it before I would chop it.
 
are you sure you want to chop it that much?

I've experimented briefly with friends' G19/23 size and I was still printing easily through the shirts. I used to own a G26 but I sold it a while back. For some reason I don't really regret having sold it (I was trying to sell off a few guns to buy a rifle), but I'm glad I'll have an opportunity to get into the G22 for a great price and still be able to use all my .40mags, plus my 9/40 conversion barrel for it too. In short, yes, I'm sure. :)
 
Ive seen the compact cut to subcompact. Ive seen the full size cut to compact. I dont know that Ive ever seen a full size cut to subcompact. I do like the idea and am interested it feed back when you do.
 
Am I the only person that has no issue concealing a 17? Maybe my size, or style of dress, or the fact that I make my own holsters plays a part. But Ive never had any issue and mine has the RMR and 20rnd mag. I can see the "dont carry a modified gun" crowd having a heart attack right now :) Im going to carry the very best self defense tool that I can afford. I train with it twice a week, take classes once a month. I would much rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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You are not alone. I'm 5'7" and when I was 135-140 I carried a 17 regularly. I finally realized while I could I personally prefer the 26 or the 19. I don't gain anything from the 17 to 19 and my 19 has very little on my 19. I don't wear skin tight clothes but often tuck in my shirt. If I were self employed I might carry a bigger gun. I have friends who carry a 17 3 mags, a 642 3 strips, a folder and a few fixed blades and the list goes on. I don't feel the need. I carry a 26 and one reload. My friend and I both feel comfortable with our choice.
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong on the size, but I think Rob Pinkus has a vid on youtube where he chops a full size to a subcompact. I'd link it but I can't go to youtube right now.

I've also seen (with google or another forum) a set of pics from a guy that chopped a Glock grip. I really liked his idea of using or borrowing a gun of the grip size you want to step down to. Then he mated the two by pressing the trigger group pin into both pistols to keep them together, then traced the smaller grip. I believe he also gave himself some extra room on the first cut in case he messed up.

I'm going to try and leave a little bit of the third finger groove for a little extra control as well. My goal is going to have a flush sub mag for general carrying with perhaps a full sized reload. I'll see if I can find the pics I saved or a link to the project I found.
 
Update:

300 more rounds fired today. Great extraction, and ejection resulting in no malfunctions and no brass in the face. I shot 150rds of Speer Lawman 124gr TMJ, 100rds of Freedom munitions 115gr FMJ Reman, and 50rds of Monarch 115gr FMJ. This was the first range trip with the Hackathorn sights and the Grip Force Adapter on this pistol. The sights are outstanding and there will be more to come on that. The GFA is a must for me on Glocks. I should have had one on the 17 Gen 4 all along. I will do a separate thread about the Hackathorn sights as well as add it on this thread.

I shot the LAV test today and shot it faster than I have previously and scored a 98/100.
I shot the LAV 1/2 test and scored a 100/100 and was sub 3.30 sec on both reps.
I was also able to shoot some sub 3 sec Bill Drills with ease
 
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Thoughts on the Hackathorn sights

I have had my eye on Ken Hackathorn sights to add to one of my Glocks for sometime now. I acquired a set recently and had them installed on my G17 Gen 4.

In short

They are outstanding. I figured I would post up my thoughts to aid anyone who may be on the fence about them. First and foremost, if you do not know who Ken Hackathorn is, we have an issue. Joking, but not really. The first thing that popped out at me about these sights was that they had a single tritium lamp in the front and a very bright orange ring around that lamp. I also liked the fact that the rear had a 90 degree face (one handed manipulations) and was blacked out.

This set up allows you to be able to focus on the front sight under multiple lighting conditions. The orange ring is bright, very bright, you can not help but see it. While the tritium lamp burns nice and clear like it should.

I have come to be a huge fan of blacked out rear sights. Adding dots, or dashes, or anything else to the rear sight makes for a cluttered sight picture in my opinion. I have used three dot Trijicons for years, as well as other types of sights with various marks so one can align their sights. However, I do not use the dots on sights to align my sights. I focus on the front sight and ensure that I have equal light, equal height in regards to the rear sight and disregard the dots or other reference points.

The only time that I have lined up the dots to take a shot is when I was shooting in extreme darkness and was not using a flashlight. When using a flashlight, the front and rear are back lit and often times the tritium is washed out anyway. So only having one dot and a bright one at that to focus on is more in line with what I have come to like in pistol sights.

Best of Both Worlds:

If you could imagine a set of XS big dot sights and a set of standard notch and post being combined; that is essentially what you get with the Hackathorn sights. I used XS sights for years and though they are good at certain things. However, they are not best (for me) at being able to make precision shots. I will say that XS sights are outstanding and they are a great choice for defense and pretty much cover all the bases in the context of the realities of most defensive shooting.

However, with the Hackathorn sights you get the advantage of a large dot on the front and still have the ability to use the sights in the traditional notch and post fashion for more precision. The Hackathorn sights are fast and accurate sights.

I had several theories going into my last range session which was yesterday. This was my first trip to the range since the sights had been installed. I shot a total of 300rds through the G17 Gen 4 and Hackathorn sight combo.

Results:

1) At 7yds, I was consistently able to present the gun and use only the orange ring on the sights to get accurate hits stacked one on top of the other in a head target. Not an IPDA or IPSC head, but the head of an SEB target. The SEB is an FBI Q with a 6" chest and pelvic box, and a small upside down triangle in the head (CNS). All rounds landed into the triangle, and the hits were attained very fast.

2) I conducted the LAV 1/2 test and scored a 100/100 and got the fastest times that I have previously. I used only the front dot as a reference point.

3) I then knew the sights were going to be acceptable at 0-21 feet so I wanted to see what else they were capable of. I also wanted to see what they could do if used in the traditional manner. I went to the 10yd line and conducted the LAV test, I shot the fastest LAV test that I have previously and scored a 98/100. My best previously was 97/100 and about 3/4 of a second slower. 10yds is the outer limits of most defensive encounters. However, I train for the worst so I wanted to keep going.

4) I then stepped back to 15yds and was easily able to keep all rounds into the black rings on the B-8 targets. Shooting from 25yds and beyond will come later, I still had something else I wanted to test out with the rest of the ammo I had on hand.

5) Shooting on the move: I essentially used the orange ring on the front sight like a red dot sight on a carbine. From 10-3yds and 3-10yds, I was able to use the orange ring and press the trigger and shots landed in the high center chest areas of the SEB targets. Shooting on the move accurately with these sights are easy and much like using XS big dot sights.

Conclusion:

1) I am going to run the sights a lot over the next few months. If they continue to impress me the way that they did today; I will be adding them to any gun that I own for defensive purposes.

2) If you have aging eyes, these sights would help you a lot. If you have a handgun for defense; these sights would be a great asset to you.

3) Some people have stated that the orange ring forces your eye to the center of the front sight rather than the tip, I could see how this could happen. However, at the distances usually associated with defensive encounters (and then some), accurate hits can be made fast and easily. You might have to focus a little more to get that front sight tip while shooting at distance but you are going to have to focus more anyway to get the hits that you need to get at those ranges. I feel that the orange ring does not hinder you at all in the context of the real world and defensive scenarios. In gun games they may not be the best choice. Unless of course you are like me and use in competition what you carry everyday.
 
Update:
Yesterday I ran an additional 265rds through the G17 Gen 4. 200rds of Speer Lawman 124gr TMJ, 50rds of Monarch 115gr FMj, and 15rds of Speer Gold Dot 124gr JHP. There were no malfunctions, no brass in the face, and ejection was perfect. This puts the gun at 915rds since the internal parts were changed out.

This was my second outing with the Hackathorn sights installed. The more I use them, the more that I love em. The majority of the rounds that I fired today were either WHO or SHO. I also did a little more shooting on the move. Again I used the orange ring only and maintained it on target and got good clean presses of the trigger. The rounds landed exactly where I wanted them to.

I did some 15yd head shots and some work at 20-25yds as well. With WHO and SHO I went out to 10yds. I finished the day with the 10-8 Standards (#1). I have not shot these in a while and this was the first time that I have shot them with this gun.

I generally use a 6.5 sec par time on the 10-8 standards and shoot it OWB, not concealed. Today I was feeling good so I shot it from concealment and lowered the par time to 6.0 sec for each string. I scored a 59/65. All the points I lost were due to being over on time and not due to accuracy so I am very pleased with that. 6.0sec will be my new baseline par time for the 10-8 Standards in the future. Once I can break 60 on that par time it will be reduced to 5.5sec and so forth and so on.

When I came home, I wanted to do an inspection of the gun to make sure everything looked right. I disassembled the slide and inspected all the small parts paying particular attention to the extractor. There were no issues found. While the slide was torn down I decided to go ahead and give it a really good cleaning especially the firing pin channel and the extractor channel.

I hope to squeeze in one more range trip before the Hackathorn class at the end of the month. If the gun continues to run the way that it has, the update after the course will be the final one. Until of course, the gun gets many, many more rounds through it, or the gun develops a problem(s).
 
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Found a G22 chopped to a 27.Seems a bit much but to each his own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pSX2habthI

Am I the only person that has no issue concealing a 17?
Your not alone. I have carried bigger and heavier. Some people when they carry are too scared they are going to print and it shows. :uhoh: I have noticed it before, someone walking around and adjusting. Trying to check for print while looking nervous as a cat in room full of rocking chairs. :scrutiny:. It plays on the psyche and before I knew it a strange psychological experiment from the 40's was being rewound in my mind after I realized I was checking too....I wanted to yell stop it! Your making it worse!:cuss:....You know most people would have thought he was about to pull it out and do something stupid like rob the place or go on a shooting spree! :scrutiny:
 
Yesterday I shot 300rds through the G17 Gen 4. I used 115gr Monarch FMJ. I had no malfunctions, no brass in the face. I have noticed that the Monarch ammo is loaded "lighter" than some other 115gr ammo that I have used in this and other guns in the past. I did have one piece of brass that didn't eject as far to the side of the gun as usual, but it didn't hit me or cause any issues. I will chalk that one up to ammo.That puts the total round count for the G17 Gen 4 at 1,215rds since the internal changes were made.

The internal changes were made on March 12th 2014. The first range trip after the changes were made was on March 14th 2014. The gun has reached 1,215rds trouble free rounds fired between March 14th and April 9th. It has met my requirement of firing 1000rds of FMJ and then some as well as carry ammo without issue.

As a final test, I was planning on using the G17 Gen 4 in the Hackathorn class in a couple weeks. I see really no need to. The gun has performed as I require my carry guns to. It is reliable and accurate and I have complete confidence in it. Also, my old G19 is sad, it hasn't gotten any love in a longtime. I am gonna run the G19 in the class. I am heading to the shop to clean the G17 Gen 4 and load up carry mags and start carrying it on a daily basis off duty.

So this is the final range report with the G17 Gen 4 for a while. I appreciate everyone viewing and sharing your thoughts on this thread. Until the next Glock project......... be safe.
 
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