Gary G23
Member
I have owned all four brands. I would recommend the XD.
Glock vs Springfield XD vs Steyr vs H&K.
- Thread starter AUTIGER04
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ront
Member
I have a Glock G27 and a Steyr S40. Love them both!
Ron
Ron
I've owned them all at one time or another. For a full size or medium to full size gun I would have to say the P99 beats the living hell out of the other choices. It's bloody.
For a mid to compact, I believe the HK is the winner. The trigger isn't on par with a Sig or Beretta, but its not bad. The 3.5lb glock trigger is better, but not the standard 5lb.
The sigpro probably has the best trigger of the bunch, but it doesn't make a very good ccw piece. It's very blocky and thick.
Opinions and mileage may vary.
For a mid to compact, I believe the HK is the winner. The trigger isn't on par with a Sig or Beretta, but its not bad. The 3.5lb glock trigger is better, but not the standard 5lb.
The sigpro probably has the best trigger of the bunch, but it doesn't make a very good ccw piece. It's very blocky and thick.
Opinions and mileage may vary.
michiganfan
Member
Got a Glock, two in fact. I have an HK USP 40 Compact and a Steyr 357 Sig . For me the Steyr is the most accurate. I love the triangular sights. The HK has the best action and trigger. It is as smooth as silk, but it is a Glock that i carry day in and day out. I think its a reliability thing and ease of use thing. The Steyr has been ammo picky. The HK has an external safety. I like the Glock point and shoot. Nothing to flip off.
I would go with a USP or a SIG.
If you're looking for dependability, reliability and accuracy all in one package, I wholeheartedly believe that these two pistol makers are on the top.
The USP is modeled after the most rigorously tested pistol in existence, The MK-23 Mod O.
The only thing I've found to be a bit rough on the HK is the trigger pull, but that's something you get used too.
The Sig comes in at a close second in my book for reliability and dependability.
These two pistols have both been put through all the standard military torture tests which include, but are certianly not limited, to the environment tests.
The SIG is currently issued to several militaries in the world, along with the USP(the P8 and P10 in the German army).
Also, I trust my life on a daily basis to a USP .45 Compact.
If you're looking for dependability, reliability and accuracy all in one package, I wholeheartedly believe that these two pistol makers are on the top.
The USP is modeled after the most rigorously tested pistol in existence, The MK-23 Mod O.
The only thing I've found to be a bit rough on the HK is the trigger pull, but that's something you get used too.
The Sig comes in at a close second in my book for reliability and dependability.
These two pistols have both been put through all the standard military torture tests which include, but are certianly not limited, to the environment tests.
The SIG is currently issued to several militaries in the world, along with the USP(the P8 and P10 in the German army).
Also, I trust my life on a daily basis to a USP .45 Compact.
mr. e
Member
Without having the capability to do multiple 10K round torture tests (if anyone wants me to do them email me and I'll give you my address so you can ship the ammo), I can compare the USP 9 and 40 to various SIGs, CZs, Browning HPs, Berettas, a Kahr K9, & a Walther P99.
My opinion is that it is a good all around gun although it isn't the best in any one category.
- It's light enough to carry but too big for concealment (P99 is better)
- It's out of the box accuracy is good but no better than an out of the box CZ (which is much cheaper)
- Reliability is no better than any one of the others I mentioned (which are all very good.)
- Trigger is way worse than P series SIGs or the Kahr, but certainly lighter than the Browning.
- Ergonomically (Grip and reach to pull trigger) much better than the Beretta, but not as nice as the Browning or CZ or Walther or SIG 229
I don't run over my guns with trucks or soak them in water for months on end, so I can't give you any opinion there.
Overall, a nice pistol but not my favorite in any one category. One last measure of reliability... My USP 40 outfitted with a laser sight is my nightstand gun. Size isn't an issue, and I know it will go bang when I need it to.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
My opinion is that it is a good all around gun although it isn't the best in any one category.
- It's light enough to carry but too big for concealment (P99 is better)
- It's out of the box accuracy is good but no better than an out of the box CZ (which is much cheaper)
- Reliability is no better than any one of the others I mentioned (which are all very good.)
- Trigger is way worse than P series SIGs or the Kahr, but certainly lighter than the Browning.
- Ergonomically (Grip and reach to pull trigger) much better than the Beretta, but not as nice as the Browning or CZ or Walther or SIG 229
I don't run over my guns with trucks or soak them in water for months on end, so I can't give you any opinion there.
Overall, a nice pistol but not my favorite in any one category. One last measure of reliability... My USP 40 outfitted with a laser sight is my nightstand gun. Size isn't an issue, and I know it will go bang when I need it to.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
LeonCarr said:
"I would put a Glock up against a 1911 anyday of the week and twice on Sunday. I already know which one would choke first."
Read what Larry Vickers had to say about some of these guns. If you don't already know, he's one of the most highly respected pistolsmiths out there and is also an active member of the military (spec. ops.) currently deployed overseas. He's seen firsthand what works and what doesn't.
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3132&highlight=Vickers
"I would put a Glock up against a 1911 anyday of the week and twice on Sunday. I already know which one would choke first."
Read what Larry Vickers had to say about some of these guns. If you don't already know, he's one of the most highly respected pistolsmiths out there and is also an active member of the military (spec. ops.) currently deployed overseas. He's seen firsthand what works and what doesn't.
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3132&highlight=Vickers
I have shot the USP's and abso-freakin-lutely HATED them. I have shot the full sized, mid size and compact ones. I shot 9mm's, 40's and 45's. If I count correctly I have tried 9 different HK's USP style pistols. You could not GIVE me one. The grip shape and the trigger just blew it for me. THE single worst value in all of guns IMO.
The XD feels good in the hand but accuracy and reliability are not that good in the SINGLE sole lonely XD I have had experience with......
I have some Glocks, a real love/hate thing. I hate the grip shape, triggers are OK if you know what to do with them though. Accuracy is FAR from a bullseye gun but for a defensive pistol they are usually quite good. The stupid crappy plastic junk runs like nothing else on the planet though, they just plain WORK. You can COUNT ON your Glock.
I have shot one lonely single sample of the Steyr too. I really liked it. Accuracy was good and it ran flawlessly for a gaggle of shooters playing with it. It took nearly a case of ammo that day too, S&B and some Wolf machinegun fodder. The Steyr might out-Glock a Glock but you can't get hi-caps or parts or accessories. Three strikes and it is out.
It is all PERSONAL opinion. What feels right and shoots well in my hand may or may not be the same for you. You have to try them and find out what makes you smile. The HK guys are rabidly in love with their guns as are the Glock guys. I very much prefer a 1911 for shooting and feel that they are the ultimate in blasters when well executed, but as much as I hate to admit it when I hear a bump in the night I grab a Glock.
The XD feels good in the hand but accuracy and reliability are not that good in the SINGLE sole lonely XD I have had experience with......
I have some Glocks, a real love/hate thing. I hate the grip shape, triggers are OK if you know what to do with them though. Accuracy is FAR from a bullseye gun but for a defensive pistol they are usually quite good. The stupid crappy plastic junk runs like nothing else on the planet though, they just plain WORK. You can COUNT ON your Glock.
I have shot one lonely single sample of the Steyr too. I really liked it. Accuracy was good and it ran flawlessly for a gaggle of shooters playing with it. It took nearly a case of ammo that day too, S&B and some Wolf machinegun fodder. The Steyr might out-Glock a Glock but you can't get hi-caps or parts or accessories. Three strikes and it is out.
It is all PERSONAL opinion. What feels right and shoots well in my hand may or may not be the same for you. You have to try them and find out what makes you smile. The HK guys are rabidly in love with their guns as are the Glock guys. I very much prefer a 1911 for shooting and feel that they are the ultimate in blasters when well executed, but as much as I hate to admit it when I hear a bump in the night I grab a Glock.
New_comer
Member
LeonCarr
Member
I try not to ignite controversy, but it just happens 
.
That is a good thread from the 1911 forum. But notice that he picked the dog of all the Glocks (21s are the most trouble prone). History also tells us that the original caliber the gun is produced in is usually the most trouble free (.45 in the 1911, 9mm in the Glock, etc.). All guns will fail at some point, they are designed and manufactured by humans. I have never had good luck with 1911s being reliable, and maybe that is just me. Every Glock that I have had (including one 21) ran like a top out of the box. I guess my main problem with a 1911 is even today with improved manufacturing and improved technology, you pay big money for a 1911, and you still have to pour money into it to make it shoot right (high dollar guns are usually better in this regard, but not always) and what good is a gun guaranteed to shoot an inch at 25 yards when it malfunctions? Reliability is paramount for me, and Glocks are the present king of the hill.
To stay on thread, I still pick the Glock over the XD, the HK, and the Steyr.
Just my .02 (or maybe .10),
LeonCarr
.That is a good thread from the 1911 forum. But notice that he picked the dog of all the Glocks (21s are the most trouble prone). History also tells us that the original caliber the gun is produced in is usually the most trouble free (.45 in the 1911, 9mm in the Glock, etc.). All guns will fail at some point, they are designed and manufactured by humans. I have never had good luck with 1911s being reliable, and maybe that is just me. Every Glock that I have had (including one 21) ran like a top out of the box. I guess my main problem with a 1911 is even today with improved manufacturing and improved technology, you pay big money for a 1911, and you still have to pour money into it to make it shoot right (high dollar guns are usually better in this regard, but not always) and what good is a gun guaranteed to shoot an inch at 25 yards when it malfunctions? Reliability is paramount for me, and Glocks are the present king of the hill.
To stay on thread, I still pick the Glock over the XD, the HK, and the Steyr
.Just my .02 (or maybe .10),
LeonCarr
AUTIGER04
member
Im buying the Glock.
Thanks for the info.
War Eagle! To all you Tenn Vol Fans.
Thanks for the info.
War Eagle! To all you Tenn Vol Fans.
mrapathy2000
member
you cant get hicaps how about smith and wesson sigma hicaps they work fine with little modding and less than a year before ban is gone who cares anymore. as far as parts go they are availible from diamond trail shooter supply in montezuma iowa not far from brownells if they dont have the parts go through odells engineering in canada which has plenty of parts and magazines though barrels take little more time so will frame not sure bout slide. they have conversion barrels from .40S&W to .357sig and 9mm.
accessories not alot of them then again pistol is relatively new compared to everything else coming out in 99 and not being super popular due to a high initial price of $600.
plenty of folks have holsters availible if you want laser or flashlight email GG&G in arizona asking for an adapter from weaver/picatinny rail to steyrs rail. nights sights and other sights are availible for steyr though no trapazoidal night sights that I know of.
besides last I looked drop free glock hicaps ran nearly $100 in glock 23 thats what 3 whooping rounds with S&W sigma you can get 15 round magazines in .40S&W +1 in the chamber and fits flush with the steyr.
Agreed that 1911's usually cost more, sometimes much more than the plastic guns. The cost to manufacture them is much higher. That's the price of addmission into the world of 1911's. Also agree that the lower end 1911's can sometimes be unreliable. But the good ones are as reliable as anything else.
I've got two 1911's that have been 100% reliable so far. I've also owned several Glocks and two USP's and while very reliable overall, they did have an occasional FTF/FTE. And they simply didn't come close to the accurracy of the 1911. My 1911's are a joy to shoot.
To say that Glocks are superior to anything else out there is kind of a mindless thing to say. Reminds me of a brain-washed cult member chanting the mantra. There are plenty of great firearms out there and all of them have their weak points.
Between my Glocks and my HKs I'd give the nod to the HKs in terms of accuracy and quality. They're just better built than the Glocks and I found them to have less felt recoil. Never tried any of the other polymer guns.
I still like Glocks and HKs by the way. I just like quality 1911's much more.
I've got two 1911's that have been 100% reliable so far. I've also owned several Glocks and two USP's and while very reliable overall, they did have an occasional FTF/FTE. And they simply didn't come close to the accurracy of the 1911. My 1911's are a joy to shoot.
To say that Glocks are superior to anything else out there is kind of a mindless thing to say. Reminds me of a brain-washed cult member chanting the mantra. There are plenty of great firearms out there and all of them have their weak points.
Between my Glocks and my HKs I'd give the nod to the HKs in terms of accuracy and quality. They're just better built than the Glocks and I found them to have less felt recoil. Never tried any of the other polymer guns.
I still like Glocks and HKs by the way. I just like quality 1911's much more.
Dain Bramage
Member
Way to go AUTIGER04!
All the partisans came out to cheer for their camps, but no one gave the best advice: shoot everything first, and then decide.
I was in the market for a compact .45 a few years ago, and I rented guns multiple times at three different local ranges. I learned a few things from practical experience that I did not expect (like I hate Para Ords). I actually was a Glock-basher back then, but I ended up buying a G30! The only gun I liked better was a full-size Kimber that I rented for comparison. In the size range I was looking for, the HK USP compact was a distant second.
At the time, polymer guns were not as prevalent (pre-XD and Steyr availability in my area), but I shot a P99 in .40, and did not like it as much.
The G30 has been great for me. Bottom line is; you won't know what fits you until you try it.
All the partisans came out to cheer for their camps, but no one gave the best advice: shoot everything first, and then decide.
I was in the market for a compact .45 a few years ago, and I rented guns multiple times at three different local ranges. I learned a few things from practical experience that I did not expect (like I hate Para Ords). I actually was a Glock-basher back then, but I ended up buying a G30! The only gun I liked better was a full-size Kimber that I rented for comparison. In the size range I was looking for, the HK USP compact was a distant second.
At the time, polymer guns were not as prevalent (pre-XD and Steyr availability in my area), but I shot a P99 in .40, and did not like it as much.
The G30 has been great for me. Bottom line is; you won't know what fits you until you try it.
A most interesting thread!!!!
And, as expected everyone claimed their fave was best! A few objective ones in there too!
Mr Dain Bramage says shoot 'em all, to see what works for you! Fir is a very important factor in personal defensive firearms.
All guns listed are reasonably realiable. Though I very much enjoyed Larry Vicker's thread(and thank him for participating in Sodamn Insane's Desert Buttkicking!), most of us are not going into that nasty of an environment.
Glocks seem to be pretty good handguns, mainly because they are simple...the new S&W M10 for the Police forces of the world! I understand the PD's of both Fairbanks and Anchorage, Alaska issue G21's!
I have owned two G30's(and shot most of the other models). One did jam alot! Cleaned, oiled, quality ammo.....it no work good!
If the Glock fits you, Fine! I never quite liked the 'feel' nor the thickness.
A cousin owns four USP's, so I got to shoot them abit. All they hype of it being the 'new and improved' 1911..well, it did not feel like one to me! I was not fond of the trigger, though it's quality, reliability and durability should be fine. It is just gonna cost you.
I have not tried the Steyr, cause it only come in 'little' bullets(after reliability comes Power). And I had never played with a HD for the same reason, though a Police Surgeon/ER Doc/Tactical Medicine/SWAT friend loves his HD 40(he gets free ammo!).
But in reflecting on my small arsenal....they are all 1911's. And none of them give me any problems. Nor have the 25 or so 1911's I have shot the crap out of the last 27 years(well, there was the OLD AutoOrdnance that was a POS!!).
The Glock is a general duty gun, the USP is a tad finer(if it fits), the unmentioned Sigs are very nice(though I do not know about extreme climate abuse). The HD and Steyr are too new.
But that old 1911? Geez, that is the gun the pro's pack when they go into harms way...so much history, and conflict...92 years old and still it is in the high tech rigs of those that ride the edge.
You can play with the Polypistols wonder zapper, maybe one day you'll understand the mentality and get a real pistol, a 1911!!
Flame suit donned!!!
Jercamp45
And, as expected everyone claimed their fave was best! A few objective ones in there too!
Mr Dain Bramage says shoot 'em all, to see what works for you! Fir is a very important factor in personal defensive firearms.
All guns listed are reasonably realiable. Though I very much enjoyed Larry Vicker's thread(and thank him for participating in Sodamn Insane's Desert Buttkicking!), most of us are not going into that nasty of an environment.
Glocks seem to be pretty good handguns, mainly because they are simple...the new S&W M10 for the Police forces of the world! I understand the PD's of both Fairbanks and Anchorage, Alaska issue G21's!
I have owned two G30's(and shot most of the other models). One did jam alot! Cleaned, oiled, quality ammo.....it no work good!
If the Glock fits you, Fine! I never quite liked the 'feel' nor the thickness.
A cousin owns four USP's, so I got to shoot them abit. All they hype of it being the 'new and improved' 1911..well, it did not feel like one to me! I was not fond of the trigger, though it's quality, reliability and durability should be fine. It is just gonna cost you.
I have not tried the Steyr, cause it only come in 'little' bullets(after reliability comes Power). And I had never played with a HD for the same reason, though a Police Surgeon/ER Doc/Tactical Medicine/SWAT friend loves his HD 40(he gets free ammo!).
But in reflecting on my small arsenal....they are all 1911's. And none of them give me any problems. Nor have the 25 or so 1911's I have shot the crap out of the last 27 years(well, there was the OLD AutoOrdnance that was a POS!!).
The Glock is a general duty gun, the USP is a tad finer(if it fits), the unmentioned Sigs are very nice(though I do not know about extreme climate abuse). The HD and Steyr are too new.
But that old 1911? Geez, that is the gun the pro's pack when they go into harms way...so much history, and conflict...92 years old and still it is in the high tech rigs of those that ride the edge.
You can play with the Polypistols wonder zapper, maybe one day you'll understand the mentality and get a real pistol, a 1911!!
Flame suit donned!!!
Jercamp45
I have a USP 40 and a Sig225 and Sig220ST. Don't own a Glock or an XD. Tried Glocks, but they werent' for me. XD, haven't had a chance to shoot one, only dry fired in the store. The XD grip angle seemed more natural to me and I felt the trigger was better, less of that sproing feeling. I think the USP is overpriced for what you get. The USP trigger is the worst out of all the handguns I own. The DA pull is extremely heavy. With your choices listed, I'd have to go with a SIG. You might also want to consider a CZ. They are accurate, reliable, fit most hands like a glove, inexpensive, and they have 15rnd magazines available. Go out to a range and tryout whatever you're interested in. I was going to get a Glock 34 but I tried it twice and found it wasn't for me.
George Hill
Member
I see that LeonCarr is the Glock Apologist on duty for this thread...
Id put an XD up against a Glock any time.
That and I've yet to see any XD "KB", but I have personally witnessed a Glock go up.
Any time.
Any day.
Id put an XD up against a Glock any time.
That and I've yet to see any XD "KB", but I have personally witnessed a Glock go up.
Any time.
Any day.
LeonCarr
Member
Ok here is the story. I have owned or shot just about every semi-auto handgun available. After all of the trials and tribulations, I came back to the Glock everytime. After owning numerous 1911s, of every make and model, not a single one of them was 100% reliable or even close to it (this was before the Kimbers and the "factory custom" type guns). Even after spending buttloads of money and sending big name gunsmiths' sons and daughters to to the college of their choice , they wouldn't run right. I looked at the Glock, and shot one. And like most folks, I was skeptical of the plastic gun. I took one to an IPSC match, and it ran for 200 rounds without a hitch. I usually had anywhere from two to numerous malfunctions shooting a match with a 1911. It works for me, and they work for alot of other folks (65% of law enforcement, including the FBI).
Of the handguns mentioned in this thread (XD,HK,Steyr), all of them are more reliable than the 1911, and the XD would be my second choice.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
, they wouldn't run right. I looked at the Glock, and shot one. And like most folks, I was skeptical of the plastic gun. I took one to an IPSC match, and it ran for 200 rounds without a hitch. I usually had anywhere from two to numerous malfunctions shooting a match with a 1911. It works for me, and they work for alot of other folks (65% of law enforcement, including the FBI). Of the handguns mentioned in this thread (XD,HK,Steyr), all of them are more reliable than the 1911, and the XD would be my second choice
. Just my .02,
LeonCarr
"Of the handguns mentioned in this thread (XD,HK,Steyr), all of them are more reliable than the 1911, and the XD would be my second choice .
Just my .02,
LeonCarr"
Let's see...all of them are more reliable than the 1911, yet my 1911's have been 100% reliable so far, as have many, many others. I guess the Glock,XD,HK,Steyr must all be more than 100% reliable?
Just my .02,
LeonCarr"
Let's see...all of them are more reliable than the 1911, yet my 1911's have been 100% reliable so far, as have many, many others. I guess the Glock,XD,HK,Steyr must all be more than 100% reliable?
CZ
Funny that only one person even mentioned the CZ. I recently started shooting USPSA Production division with a CZ 75B. I have to admit, I am impressed. I have owned the XD, a Sig or two, a Beretta, and various Glocks. For me, it's a matter of ergonomics. I can get more hits on the paper faster with the CZ than with any of the others (and yes I know how to shoot). In my view, the CZ may very well be the most underestimated pistol out there.
Funny that only one person even mentioned the CZ. I recently started shooting USPSA Production division with a CZ 75B. I have to admit, I am impressed. I have owned the XD, a Sig or two, a Beretta, and various Glocks. For me, it's a matter of ergonomics. I can get more hits on the paper faster with the CZ than with any of the others (and yes I know how to shoot). In my view, the CZ may very well be the most underestimated pistol out there.
JMag
Member
Sig or Glock
Forgot the SigPro? You shouldn't...
Forgot the SigPro? You shouldn't...
George Hill
Member
It's called giving 110%, harrydog.
The Extra Mile.
The Extra Mile.
thread drift
I really hate to promote thread drift, but I can't let the comment about 1911 style pistols just slide. In this day and age of numerical control and other advances in production, there are thousands of 1911 style pistols on the market that are absolutely reliable. BTW, I have a Les Baer Premeir II that I shoot in IDPA and USPSA. The guys around here have a standing bet about if and when the gun pukes. I know for a fact that this pistol has never choked with factory rounds and has only malfuntioned a half a dozen times (with crappy reloads) in the last 20,000 plus rounds.
I really hate to promote thread drift, but I can't let the comment about 1911 style pistols just slide. In this day and age of numerical control and other advances in production, there are thousands of 1911 style pistols on the market that are absolutely reliable. BTW, I have a Les Baer Premeir II that I shoot in IDPA and USPSA. The guys around here have a standing bet about if and when the gun pukes. I know for a fact that this pistol has never choked with factory rounds and has only malfuntioned a half a dozen times (with crappy reloads) in the last 20,000 plus rounds.
LeonCarr
Member
You can buy a Les Baer, or you can buy a Glock and 1100 dollars worth of ammunition, and get the same level of reliability .
I do not promote thread drift, so you can also buy a Steyr, HK, or XD, and 1100 dollars worth of ammunition, and do the same thing.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
.I do not promote thread drift, so you can also buy a Steyr, HK, or XD, and 1100 dollars worth of ammunition, and do the same thing
.Just my .02,
LeonCarr
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